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Game Day - Tigers v Roos
- Thread starter tigertime2
- Start date
Baron Samedi said:
To clarify, I don't think a lack of skill is the issue.
But a lack of champions might be.
Rance and Jack, more than anything, are champions. Winners. Head strong warriors who refuse to lose.
You're attributing our lack of scores from inside fifities to tactics, Leon attributed it to skill. I reckon it's the fact that we haven't got our 8 time club leader for goal kicking triple Coleman medallist out there. Who not only converts when he should, but can also turn a scrappy shallow entry into a goal for either himself or the little folk.
In addition, we normally have a bloke in the backline who can repel the unrepelable. He can take a guaranteed opposition goal and turn it into a chance for us to run down the field with it. How often would Rancey turn the entire opposition run on its head, and give us the chance at an on the counter re entry into our forward line for a simple goal? That's gold. Gold.
As skilful as Stack is, he hasn't yet got the Ranceness to do that. Yet.
If it were up to me, I'd be training Balta for it, because he's got that Rance/Jack confidence that leads to eventual indefatigability.
Nank's got a bit of it too.
Thing is, if you wanna win a premiership, you either need to get lucky and play well at the right time (Bulldogs 2016). Or you need a critical mass of Champions that make sure you can still win when you're not (Richmond 2017 to 2018).
We're skilful. But young. And don't yet believe. And that can masquerade as a lack of skill.
Bit harsh there Leon, or is this comment only directed at our fri night team?leon said:
With the major injury issues topped up by minor injury issues n stupid suspensions, I'm bloody amazed we're still ahead of the win loss ledger.
TigerMasochist said:
They can play Selwood on a wing now because they have topped up Danger, Duncan (in career-best form it's claimed), Guthrie and Ablett with Tim Kelly (now indisputably one of the best going around) and Dalhaus . Stanley has also been quite good this year but must be out injured. Smith was OK for them instead but hope he's still in to play on Soldo because Stanley would leave him for dead.
CScott would never admit to imitating us although he actually acknowledged how we have been the best team over last 3 years. But he certainly has revised his FL to resemble ours with fast, hard-tackling SFs like Dalhaus (mid/SF), Atkins, Miers and Parfitt (mid/SF). He cut a high-skill goal-kicking but poor pressure player like Menzel. Rohan is another X-factor. Got his knockers but I've always struggled to see what's not to like: tall, very quick, big leap and strong mark, chases and tackles hard, kick like a mule.
They've also regenerated his backline onto the AFL's best - I could go into similar details - but just check the stats.
We have been remarkable with our horrible injuries. But at the moment, with the team we can put on the park, the evidence is that what I claim is fairly supportable. Think the Moggies handled the Pies, Dogs and Norf adequately. Unlike us.
PS - Will reply to BS later. Need more time, sorry, work pressure is full-on atm.
leon said:
You can’t really compare other results. Collingwood failed to beat Freo here, we beat them over there. And so on. One thing we know is that Collingwood can beat us.
Baron Samedi said:
Well re your first point, the very idea of the competition is to compare results. What else is the aggregate ladder for, which determines who gets to play finals and finishes where.
There is always variation in results, especially these days where teams are much closer for several reasons. A prior win does not guarantee the next encounter will be the same result. However, I was replying to TM who queried my assertion that the Moggies look to be a superior team to us in all areas. On the evidence available in '19, I'm arguing that's quite demonstrable.
I have a feeling the Chokers will fail again this year. My intuition is being supported atm. Firstly, I was really hoping the injury demon was finally finished with us and keen to move across the road and wreak some havoc at the Holden Centre or whatever it's called now. Might be happening too, with DeGoey and Cox struggling and now Beams out long-term. My other sense re them is that they're an older team with a tougher draw in '19. Are there signs that it's all starting to catch up with them? They've just got over the line in recent games, usually with a lot of help from their mates in green. The Freo loss at home was telling ... maybe.
I think the Weagles, Mogs and GWS could be the sides to beat. We have been brilliant considering our injuries, but the Moggies have had a dream year thus far. Much better team than '17/'18. They play pressure football up forward now with another version of our FL but better currently (with no JR for us). Will be attending the match and really hoping for a win, but not expecting it at all.
Apologies: will reply to the 'skills' post tomorrow, too stuffed atm.
Baron Samedi said:
Surely you no longer need an in-depth response to this post, Baron? If you saw the game?
Still think we are 'quite a skilful team these days'?
Don't make me go through this game for you to describe and highlight the skill deficiencies for you. It was a putrid performance. Maybe you noted the skilled kicking of Butler - that great short pass to the man on the mark that caused a goal, I think - or Lynch and Caddy's great set-shot, or snap for that matter - goal-kicking skills. (What a contrast to Hawkins, Miars and Ratogolea!) Did you really look at some of our field kicking?
Killed all momentum and confidence. That's just a few instances that spring to mind. I could provide tons more skill errors but i'd rather stick pins in my eyes than watch that match again.
leon said:
How does one bad game change our skill level?
Injuries, game plan, confidence, effort are all variables atm, but we are still highly skilled.
You've only noticed ONE bad game say, going back to the Bulldogs 1 pt win in final H & A game of 2018? Didn't notice the PF or 2019 games against the Dogs or Norf just recently?
Currently there are only about four players I trust not to stuff up a possession often - Dusty (but accept he'll make mistakes because he is a game-breaker), Grimes, Vlastuin and Stack. Edwards generally good too but he can still try to be too cute and it's costly from half-back.
Currently there are only about four players I trust not to stuff up a possession often - Dusty (but accept he'll make mistakes because he is a game-breaker), Grimes, Vlastuin and Stack. Edwards generally good too but he can still try to be too cute and it's costly from half-back.
Thought it was previously about a 45% win ratio for sides that had sacked a coach mid year. Considering the reason for sacking coaches mid year is a long run of absolute *smile* performance, then a 45% hit rate is a pretty good bounce.
Three coaches sacked this year n three teams have immediately bounced in performance, would boost the ratio a fair bit as there's not really been that many mid season sackings over the years.
that is exactly the point. the stats might say 50-50-ish, but if you've sacked your coach you are probably sitting 20-80 or even worse. Its a huge bounce.
you don't really want to go back to 50-50 when you're sitting 80-20.
But in the trumpy post-truth world, stranger things have happened.This year has been an anomaly. When you delve deeper into the historical facts back to 2007 you see that the win ratio is quite low AND the teams that they have beaten when they win have been low teams themselves. From 2007 to 2017 there were 14 sacked coaches prior to season's end and only 5 have won (35.7%). Of those wins, 2 of the teams with sacked coaches were actually higher than their opponent on the ladder at the time, 2 were within 2 ladder spots and 1 within 4. None were in the 8. 5 times a sacked coach team played another in the 8 and all of them lost.
If anything it seems there is a trend to sack a coach before a relatively easy game the next round.
No not compelling at all. There might be a slight improvement in performance but more have lost than won and the ones that have won have often been against struggling sides themselves, some which have ended up sacking their own coaches the next year. Not one win against a top 8 side until this year where it happened twice. Carlton (18th) against Brisbane (6th) and North (13th) beat Richmond (6th). So not traditionally a trend.
You've taken the 3 out that don't support your argument from this year, god knows why (rhetorical question
and we're still over 35%. That is still a significant bounce. stick the 3 in this year and its off the charts.