GAME DAY - TIGES V SWANS | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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GAME DAY - TIGES V SWANS

Smoking Aces

Batten Down The Hatches
Sep 21, 2007
13,697
3,491
I like the new rules. I like high scoring and bags of goals. Love it in fact.

Don’t care how it affects us. To complain about what is IMO a vast improvement on the game is a blinkered mentality.

It’s up to our coaching group to adapt if they need to, tinker if the system still holds up (I think the latter is the case).

Either way, every campaign is different and we would do well to get rid of any lingering sense of entitlement right now.
I am with you Carter. Game is much more watchable. But it will effect us. Massively. Our defence the most effected. This Vlastuin injury could be very costly.
 

tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
13,750
3,214
Dunno if you watched that game but North were so bad I reckon I would've snagged a couple. No wonder someone kicked 10 and it wont be the last v Norf.

Watched some of it. Bruce's most goals in the last 3 years excluding North games is 3. I agree, probably a few here could have snagged one or two against North this week.
 

tigermouseau

Tiger Superstar
Apr 19, 2004
1,215
347
I don't think that analysis tells the whole story. Winning team's score round 2, 2019 was 96 points, in round 3, 2021 so far it's 116. That's almost 21%. Teams are being cut up and can't stop the onslaught. There is clearly a lot less pressure this year due to the new rules. Our game is built on the pressure game with minimal effort and being able to grind down the opposition and counter-attacking. Due to the rule change it has allowed other teams to play that more aggressive counter-attacking game. It's reduced our advantage so tweaking will be necessary.
This new basketball like game is horrible to watch. I cannot see how our game style, no matter how much it is “tweaked” will work. It relies too much on keepings-off style of play and Sydney did it to perfection. West coast, bulldogs, bummers also performed it very well. Our game style relies on creating turnovers and forcing the ball forward in any manner. Our kicking and handball skills haven’t been brilliant but our pressure has. Now that the AFL have created a less pressured game, I just can’t see how we can “tweak” our game to work in our favour. throw into the mix the fact that we have lost Leppitsch and McCrae - this year will be the most difficult for us to win a three peat.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
14,958
10,419
This new basketball like game is horrible to watch. I cannot see how our game style, no matter how much it is “tweaked” will work.


Collingwood have been playing this brand for a few years.

I still believe in finals, you simply need a collection of players that are better and tougher than the oppositions collection.

I cant see how rules can change that
 
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momentai

Tiger Champion
Jul 24, 2004
3,724
387
Melb
While the optimism here and the parallels with previous years is good to read there are some things we cannot ignore.

The game has changed more this year than it normally does. The game changes a little each year. In some senses the standing the mark rule takes us back to many years ago when players would just stand there and wave their arms about when on the mark. What that misses though is that years ago the game was played differently - more kicking to contests, less of a possession and territory game than it is now. What the morons at the AFL have not taken into account is that the whole running around on the mark is a response to the way the game has developed over the last few decades - the kick into the corridor, the switch to the other side of the ground - these were nowhere near as prevalent back years ago. So, they have changed a rule and now we have 2020s strategies but the player on the mark is stuck with a 1970s response. F***ing stupid.

The game is clearly more open and even if there are strategies developed to counter this, the game has still changed a lot. I am trying to work out if I can sort some analysis of this based on the stats (contested versus uncontested marks, hitouts as an indicator of stoppages, contested versus uncontested possessions, tackles etc). Not sure what I will find but will be interested to see what is going on.

Our game style, specifically the aspect of it which relies on pressure and turnovers, is disadvantaged by the rule changes. That said, I am sure that the coaches at every team were the first to see this. We are early in the year and as Dimma keeps saying, you need to improve every year just to prevent dropping down the ladder. I'm sure they are looking into this and trying to work out ways to prevent the opposition from exploiting the open game against us, and how we can use it to our advantage. We will adapt and it might take a little time. One thing we need to do, although I'm not sure we could do this for the whole season and finals, is to address the centre bounce clearances. We managed to turn this around last year without Soldo so we can do it again - but we also have to determine when we are best to be putting in place the strategies we will need at the pointy end of the year. At this stage we do need to work on nullifying the opposition advantage though.

It is a balancing act for all teams, but for the reigning premiers we are the hunted and need to balance early season effort to win enough games to stay in touch, along with later season effort to have a shot at the big prize.

DS
Agree with much of this but the changes are really a fundamental attack at our present game plan.

Our present reliance on zoning makes us very vulnerable to set plays and precision kicking. The speed with which good teams can run around the stationary man on the mark, and an ability to kick precisely will do over zoning every time as the ball off the boot always moves quicker than the chaser.

If maintained Sydney's speed and kicking ability and those teams with similar skill, will under the new rules, always undo a zoning defence no matter how good we are.

These rules will not be changed. Our coaches will adapt but the need for fundamental change will cause a lot of pain.
 
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kiwitiger

Go the AllBlacks, the Storm , and the Tigers.
Jul 28, 2004
2,864
1,388
Blinkered mentality maybe if you like what the game has become. I don't like it and it's nothing to do with how it's affecting us. It's moving to a glorified game of basketball. Forwards kicking 10 goals is fine but you've got to earn it. When guys like Bruce who at 28y averages 1.4 goals a game starts kicking 10 you start wondering where the game's heading. It is what it is right now but gee I hope the defensive part of the game gets more credence back otherwise may as well start putting witches hats out as defenders.

The other thing I don’t like , is when a team gets a roll on , it becomes a one sided massacre , that’s pretty boring to me

It won’t be long ( if it hasn’t happened already ) people will start saying , hang on we are getting too many one sided blow outs
 
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123cups

Tiger Superstar
May 1, 2016
2,205
1,702
I don't think that analysis tells the whole story. Winning team's score round 2, 2019 was 96 points, in round 3, 2021 so far it's 116. That's almost 21%. Teams are being cut up and can't stop the onslaught. There is clearly a lot less pressure this year due to the new rules. Our game is built on the pressure game with minimal effort and being able to grind down the opposition and counter-attacking. Due to the rule change it has allowed other teams to play that more aggressive counter-attacking game. It's reduced our advantage so tweaking will be necessary.

The total goals kicked in all games from rounds 1-3 is a larger sample size than the winning team’s score in round 2, so I think it’s more accurate to say scoring has increased by closer to 5% than 20%.

The nature of scoring may have changed, but the stats say the media is blowing it out of proportion.

It’s only 1 goal per game between both teams.
 

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
20,183
3,316
Agree with much of this but the changes are really a fundamental attack at our present game plan.

Our present reliance on zoning makes us very vulnerable to set plays and precision kicking. The speed with which good teams can run around the stationary man on the mark, and an ability to kick precisely will do over zoning every time as the ball off the boot always moves quicker than the chaser.

If maintained Sydney's speed and kicking ability and those teams with similar skill, will under the new rules, always undo a zoning defence no matter how good we are.

These rules will not be changed. Our coaches will adapt but the need for fundamental change will cause a lot of pain.
Zoning defence will be pretty much obsolete in future. With the new rules of freeing up territory n options for the ball carrier's disposal and the reduced rotations it's going to force all teams to play a much stronger one on one game.
Unpressured chip kick to the uncontested team mate will be like death from a thousand cuts, inevitable and unstoppable.

So very happy that we've got six early selections in this years draft. Perfect opportunity to refresh the list with a bunch of skilled lanky running youngsters who will be better suited to the new game rules. Hopefully we've already got a large enough batch of young inside bulls coming through for our contested grunt.
 

123cups

Tiger Superstar
May 1, 2016
2,205
1,702
Blinkered mentality maybe if you like what the game has become. I don't like it and it's nothing to do with how it's affecting us. It's moving to a glorified game of basketball. Forwards kicking 10 goals is fine but you've got to earn it. When guys like Bruce who at 28y averages 1.4 goals a game starts kicking 10 you start wondering where the game's heading. It is what it is right now but gee I hope the defensive part of the game gets more credence back otherwise may as well start putting witches hats out as defenders.

The type of scoring has shifted, but total scoring hasn’t by much. We might benefit the most if we can tighten them up.

Teams can easily kick the ball from one end to the other, quickly, allowing their leading forwards to easily find space, because the opposition defence doesn’t have as much time to cover all bases and the kicker is less pressured so it’s a more accurate kick.

This feels powerless to stop when it happens. But it’s not resulting in huge scores and this is early in the season when nobody knows how to defend against it yet.

Logically, an increase in these type of goals when total goals aren’t increasing by much means there must be a decrease in other types of goals, such as opportunistic, chaos goals from small forwards in highly congested pack situations, etc.

I see potential for us to still dominate with this trend, because if we can pressure any midfield (slow them down so our defence can setup, and pressure the kick so it’s a less accurate I50 kick) then opposition teams will be easier than ever to shut out because they have planned for less alternative means of scoring now.

Small sample size, but I don’t see this style standing up in finals when pressure is systemic again.
 
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Spirit of Jack

Only a Tiger premiership can make 2020 a good year
Apr 19, 2004
3,038
846
Appreciating the considered perspectives in this thread, on all sides. Its going to be interesting to see how this all pans out!
 
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Fighting Fury

Tiger Army
Jul 17, 2003
2,249
475
I like the new rules. I like high scoring and bags of goals. Love it in fact.

Don’t care how it affects us. To complain about what is IMO a vast improvement on the game is a blinkered mentality.

It’s up to our coaching group to adapt if they need to, tinker if the system still holds up (I think the latter is the case).

Either way, every campaign is different and we would do well to get rid of any lingering sense of entitlement right now.
Carter, I agree on not letting thoughts on the game being driven by any collective sense of entitlement.
The "we have built a great outfit and why shouldn't we benefit from it until the next supercoach comes up with something to beat us" theory is not the Richmond way. Our coaches now have to earn their money and figure out how to combat and thrive under the new rules.

But to say it is a vastly improved game...well I just cannot see it. In my view this chip chip 8 m 10 m kick to uncontested mark, keepings off game is totally unwatchable.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
9,572
5,727
But to say it is a vastly improved game...well I just cannot see it. In my view this chip chip 8 m 10 m kick to uncontested mark, keepings off game is totally unwatchable.

This is what I dislike too. I'm all for high scoring free flowing footy, but when you can use 15m kicks (and because the man on the mark essentially renders you one man down) to move from your D50 to your F50 with no pressure, its as you say unwatchable.

Its a small sample size and maybe a better balance will eventuate out of this. I sure hope so. I think the small dinky kicks was probably more obvious in our game than others and with very few teams being able to execute that, then I'm less concerned than I was on Saturday.
 
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The_Celebrant

Tiger Superstar
Aug 18, 2018
1,049
1,503
malemelbournecelebrant.net.au
Appreciating the considered perspectives in this thread, on all sides. Its going to be interesting to see how this all pans out!
Personally, I'm looking forward to watching the Swans against other good teams eg how will they deal with the Eagle's talent ... the Doggies gameplan, etc. As my wife and daughter are Swans fans, they'll be an exciting 'second team' to follow.
 

Batchelor Party

Tiger Rookie
Mar 25, 2011
444
220
USA
So very happy that we've got six early selections in this years draft. Perfect opportunity to refresh the list with a bunch of skilled lanky running youngsters who will be better suited to the new game rules. .
That is until the "Brains Trust" at AFL Headquarters tweak the rules again! :oops:
 
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Coburgtiger

Tiger Champion
May 7, 2012
3,559
2,110
I don't necessarily think high scoring = better game. It seems to be the mantra of the media, but they have a vested interest in ad breaks.

Goals are interesting to watch if they're hard to get.

If it's chip, chip, chip, uncontested mark goal, we're essentially watching a competitive game of HORSE.

I'm finding myself turning off games at half time more than I have previously.

Having said that, the games that have been the most watchable this year have had some great one on one battles that have turned games, which is refreshing.

We will do well this year regardless, because we're simply better than most teams, but we can't count on that for a GF appearance. There are now more hungry, young teams that are ready to take the next step than in past years. And the rules work against our game plan, whichever way you turn them.

I actually think we should look at a relatively drastic change up. We need to go from a zone defence to one on one. We have the stock for it.

The only personnel changes required will be an extra tall back (can't defend the easy lead for tall forwards with Short, Houli, and Baker back anymore). And we need another leading forward. And we need to get our best kicks (I.e lose one of K-mac or Pickett) on the wing.

I would play Caddy forward, Baker through the wing/mid, Miller at full back (until Vlossy is back). Even up numbers forward, get the team to play one on one when defending.

But I'm not worried about us getting the tweaks right. We will.

I'm worried about how boring most matches have been.
 
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Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
21,504
5,122
It is not the high scoring. It is the uncontested nature of the game and the copius amounts of short passes.
Correct. Scoring hasn't increased but the bruise free uncontested ball pinging up and down circle work has. Boring! Don't believe the bullshit the AFL and media are feeding us. It's not a better spectacle. This wasn't introduced to stop the "rolling maul". Had Geelong won the GF do you really think this rule would have been introduced? The media were circle jerking about the prospects of Geelong winning it. Hocking identified one area we are the best at - manning the mark and took this away from us. Give me a break.
 
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AstuteTiger

Jumpin Jack
Feb 25, 2007
9,584
709
This new basketball like game is horrible to watch. I cannot see how our game style, no matter how much it is “tweaked” will work. It relies too much on keepings-off style of play and Sydney did it to perfection. West coast, bulldogs, bummers also performed it very well. Our game style relies on creating turnovers and forcing the ball forward in any manner. Our kicking and handball skills haven’t been brilliant but our pressure has. Now that the AFL have created a less pressured game, I just can’t see how we can “tweak” our game to work in our favour. throw into the mix the fact that we have lost Leppitsch and McCrae - this year will be the most difficult for us to win a three peat.

You close the space, and increase the pressure this has happened to us before, pies have done it, eagles and Geelong play that way as do the dogs.

Yes, it now favours the kicker as the man on the mark can't move, we need to bring players up to close the short space, let them kick over the congested area and take the punt to clear the ball out. This has to be the way to beat this keepings off rubbish style of play like the cats played today.

The swans had to much free space to play with, close it up and then see what they do. Either, they will still try and pinpoint passes that could result in turnovers or they will attempt to go over the congested zone. The margin of error increases with their easy exits closed. No doubt dimma and co will be formulating a plan to counter this.

In Dimma we trust!
 
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pete and tys

Tiger Superstar
Feb 19, 2009
1,280
526
Yes the answer is in numbers in the midfield and within a 20 to 50 meter distance from the ball carrier.It will leave some risk from a lng kick over the top but I believe we have the personnel to counter this.
When in possession it is important not to give the ball away and this is our problem. We can no longer kick long and rely on crumbling alone.
We will need lead up forwards. Jack and Caddy. Martin too.
Bolton did not work. Maybe one of the youngsters Ralfsmith or RCD. Need to have good hands and leg speed.
Heaven forbid but even Chol might be favoured by this rule.
 
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