Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Global Warming

adamski

Tiger Cub
Jan 30, 2023
40
0
58
Adamski, I have some sympathy with what you are saying and you are correct that capitalism is the only socio-economic system which has put the planet in peril.

But one thing you always have to look at is the actual history of what happened. Surely as someone who is clearly interested in societal change you should avoid glib and overly simplistic analysis of previous societal change.

The way society changes from one system to another is a huge question, especially for those of us who are not satisfied with capitalism. Not to mention that change on such a level involves changing just about everything. So, apart from looking at the current context which is different to when Feudalism shifted to Capitalism, we also need to look at examples of attempted change.

On the topic of the transition from Feudalism to Capitalism, it is important to remember that it took hundreds of years for the preconditions of such a transformation to play out. I can suggest reading the 3 Volume Civilisation and Capitalism 15th-18th centuries by Braudel, I am 1 volume in, in between other books. What this shows is that the transition was far from quick. You will notice the time period he covers starts well before the rise of capitalism from the 17th century. Add to that the time it took. In England you could say capitalism was beginning to be the main economic system from the late 17th century, we usually point to 1789 for France, similar timing for a lot of Western Europe, Eastern Europe later. Plus, you cannot just look at capitalism as a static system, compare mercantalist capitalism to the neo-liberal version we have now. Compare Adam Smith's citing of self-interest and sympathy as motivations for human behaviour against rational choice theories today. The system adapts, as Marx would tell you, this is a big feature of capitalism.

Then you can look at the attempts to move beyond capitalism, especially the attempts at socialism. Given my politics, you can look for previous posts if you want to find out, it was little surprise to me that an attempt to move beyond capitalism by transitioning from private property to state property led to what was effectively bureaucratic or state capitalism. In any case, it was an abject failure which led to authoritarian regimes. The promise of socialism is better than what the former socialist regimes delivered, but it remains a fact that when the attempt was made to transition to socialism it led to authoritarianism.

But I have digressed too far.

Marx would tell you that capitalism is the most adaptable system we have ever had. Is it adaptable enough to change in such a way as to stop climate change? On balance I think not. The driver of capitalism is constant expansion. As David Attenborough once observed: Anyone who thinks that you can have infinite growth in a finite environment is either a madman or an economist.

How we change the system and what we change it to are huge questions, with many answers, I'll leave it to Malatesta: We anarchists do not want to emancipate the people; we want the people to emancipate themselves.

DS
for all its adaptability, you have made the point well that there is no room for adaption when perpetual exponential growth is no longer viable. Maybe its back to feudalism
 
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adamski

Tiger Cub
Jan 30, 2023
40
0
58
carbon brief has summarised this accelerated warming for 2022.

  • Ocean heat content: It was the warmest year on record for ocean heat content, which increased notably between 2021 and 2022.
  • Surface temperature: It was between the fifth and sixth warmest year on record for surface temperature for the world as a whole, at between 1.1C and 1.3C above pre-industrial levels across different temperature datasets. The last eight years have been the eight warmest years since records began in the mid-1800s.
  • A persistent triple-dip La Niña: The year ended up cooler than it would otherwise be due to persistent La Niña conditions in the tropical Pacific. Carbon Brief finds that 2022 would have been the second warmest year on record after 2020 in the absence of short-term variability from El Niño and La Niña events.
  • Warming over land: It was the warmest year on record in 28 countries – including China, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, Portugal, Spain and the Uk – and in areas where 850 million people live.
  • Extreme weather: 2022 saw extreme heatwaves over Europe, China, India, Pakistan and South America, as well as catastrophic flooding in Pakistan, Brazil, West Africa and South Africa. Climate change played a clear role in increasing the severity of all of these events.
  • Comparison with climate model data: Observations for 2022 are close to the central estimate of climate models featured in the IPCC fifth assessment report.
  • Warming of the atmosphere: It was the seventh or eighth warmest year in the lower troposphere – the lowest part of the atmosphere – depending on which dataset is used. The stratosphere – in the upper atmosphere – is cooling, due in part to heat trapped in the lower atmosphere by greenhouse gases.
  • Sea level rise: Sea levels reached new record-highs, with notable acceleration over the past three decades.
  • Greenhouse gases: Concentrations reached record levels for CO2, methane and nitrous oxide.
  • Sea ice extent: Arctic sea ice saw its 10th lowest minimum extent on record, and was generally at the low end of the historical range for the year. Antarctic sea ice saw a new record low extent for much of 2022.
  • Looking ahead to 2022: Carbon Brief predicts that global average surface temperatures in 2023 are most likely to be slightly warmer than 2022, but are unlikely to set a new all-time record given lingering La Niña conditions in the first half of the year.
 

spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,292
27,522
Melbourne
A couple of good news stories:


That's big. Cement is a huge contributor to emissions.

This is nice too:

As David says, capitalism is adaptive. It's also - provided the right checks and balances are in place - democratic. It has brought us to the brink of destruction but it will bring us back too - in concert with brave, sensible, regulation and legislation.

We're nowhere near the end of growth. Growth until now has been grossly inefficient compared to what we will enjoy under the new paradigm, if we get it right. Paradise awaits. We just have to dodge the massive existential bullet heading straight for our heads. I believe in human ingenuity, and to state it again, well-regulated capitalism, in which innovation and entrepreneurship are encouraged and monitored, is the best way to foster it. And of course, as anyone who has ever read a post of mine would know, that comes with the responsibility to invest in social programs and systems. Healthcare, education, sanitation, safety nets, etc. These things are not just morally necessary, they are functionally vital or the whole thing goes to sh!t (hello America).

We can have the best of all worlds. We're so close - as close as we are to oblivion. If anyone in a distant galaxy is watching 'Life on Earth', the intergalactic TV reality show, they're riveted.
 
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adamski

Tiger Cub
Jan 30, 2023
40
0
58
A couple of good news stories:


That's big. Cement is a huge contributor to emissions.

This is nice too:

As David says, capitalism is adaptive. It's also - provided the right checks and balances are in place - democratic. It has brought us to the brink of destruction but it will bring us back too - in concert with brave, sensible, regulation and legislation.

We're nowhere near the end of growth. Growth until now has been grossly inefficient compared to what we will enjoy under the new paradigm, if we get it right. Paradise awaits. We just have to dodge the massive existential bullet heading straight for our heads. I believe in human ingenuity, and to state it again, well-regulated capitalism, in which innovation and entrepreneurship are encouraged and monitored, is the best way to foster it. And of course, as anyone who has ever read a post of mine would know, that comes with the responsibility to invest in social programs and systems. Healthcare, education, sanitation, safety nets, etc. These things are not just morally necessary, they are functionally vital or the whole thing goes to sh!t (hello America).

We can have the best of all worlds. We're so close - as close as we are to oblivion. If anyone in a distant galaxy is watching 'Life on Earth', the intergalactic TV reality show, they're riveted.
A couple of good news stories:


That's big. Cement is a huge contributor to emissions.

This is nice too:

As David says, capitalism is adaptive. It's also - provided the right checks and balances are in place - democratic. It has brought us to the brink of destruction but it will bring us back too - in concert with brave, sensible, regulation and legislation.

We're nowhere near the end of growth. Growth until now has been grossly inefficient compared to what we will enjoy under the new paradigm, if we get it right. Paradise awaits. We just have to dodge the massive existential bullet heading straight for our heads. I believe in human ingenuity, and to state it again, well-regulated capitalism, in which innovation and entrepreneurship are encouraged and monitored, is the best way to foster it. And of course, as anyone who has ever read a post of mine would know, that comes with the responsibility to invest in social programs and systems. Healthcare, education, sanitation, safety nets, etc. These things are not just morally necessary, they are functionally vital or the whole thing goes to sh!t (hello America).

We can have the best of all worlds. We're so close - as close as we are to oblivion. If anyone in a distant galaxy is watching 'Life on Earth', the intergalactic TV reality show, they're riveted.
No, technology won't save us without tackling the economic question and energy does not equal electricity
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,693
18,278
Melbourne
Zero emission cement - that is huge. Lots of emissions from cement and we use it all the time. Hope they can get this happening.

DS
 

Tigaman

Tiger Champion
May 23, 2010
4,651
913
A gauge to sea water rising is Dry Docks ?. How many dry docks in this world have had to shut down or are in danger of shutting down due to Sea Levels Rising.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,693
18,278
Melbourne
A gauge to sea water rising is Dry Docks ?. How many dry docks in this world have had to shut down or are in danger of shutting down due to Sea Levels Rising.

No, you just measure it using satellites, you know, accurately. Bit like temperature, you use a thermometer.

Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if some deadsh**t deniers use a nice floating dry dock to claim it isn't happening.

DS
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,172
19,044
Whole world is pretty *smile* up climate wise at the moment. Even the Murdoch press are changing their tune slightly to now blame scientists for not grasping what was happening.

I wonder what our hardcore climate deniers are sprouting now.
 
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