Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Global Warming

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,523
17,875
Melbourne
There is no inherent bias in any different 24 hour period, what an absurdity.

What about a day where the temperature is 28 at 8am and then cool change, temp falls to 18, rising to 20 during the day. Max = 20.

Geez, get a grip.

DS
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,523
17,875
Melbourne
Oh, FFS, get a grip, any 24 hour period is equal to any other 24 hour period.

You should watch your curtains, they fade more with daylight saving.

DS
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Oh, FFS, get a grip, any 24 hour period is equal to any other 24 hour period.

Not even one day?

You know very well that the daily temperature pattern approximates a sine wave.

9P8ebE7.jpg


It's not intuitive to ignore a peak for potentially 40+ hours, then take two "peaks" a few hours apart.
 
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HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
Not even one day?

You know very well that the daily temperature pattern approximates a sine wave.

9P8ebE7.jpg


It's not intuitive to ignore a peak for potentially 40+ hours, then take two "peaks" a few hours apart.
We all understand apples for apples L2 but it is inherently biased as you point out above, 2 temps recorded on the same day is not a true reading of the prior day at all or potentially the following day. Tin hatted socialists hey!
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
We all understand apples for apples L2 but it is inherently biased as you point out above, 2 temps recorded on the same day is not a true reading of the prior day at all or potentially the following day. Tin hatted socialists hey!

I do accept the argument that if they've historically done it a certain way - reading off maximum & minimum thermometers at 9am and 3pm - they're obliged to keep on doing it for the purpose of continuity, given daily maximums often occur after 3pm. I was unable to find out when they began using those types of thermometers. But I do think the dataset should be kept separate from figures displayed to the public as it is confusing.

It would be interesting to know how often a maximum for a given day is actually recorded the following day.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,775
They therefore provide a much more stable indication of warming trends.

Makes perfect sense.

buffering removes noise from highly variable data ( e,g. L2's ambient couch temperature)

the ocean is a *smile* big thermal sink and is therefore extremely buffered against background temp fluctuations.

L2 would probably argue that the should be taking the temperature at the bottom of the sea.

maybe his right.

if, say the geometric mean temperature at the bottom of The Marianna Trench is increasing,

I'd say there'd be a fair chance we are *smile*

and Novak could retire in the 5th set with lung cancer, provided he was 1-5 down.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,523
17,875
Melbourne
OMG the deniers are lining up to show their intelligence.

No matter where you put the 24 hour period you can get 2 peaks a long way apart and 2 peaks close together, if we measure daily temperatures over a 24 hour period this is inevitable. Since a day is 24 hours it is logical to measure it over a 24 hour period.

Let me outline this in a way even you lot may understand:

In the not too distant future the following occurs:

It is January 15 2021, the BOM announces that it will now alter the way daily temperatures are measured, they will no longer use the traditional meteorological day which was 9am to 9am, they will now measure temperatures from midnight to midnight starting in Feb 2021.

In Melbourne on Feb 3 2021 it is extreme, the temperature reaches a maximum of 46C.

In the late afternoon clouds appear locking the heat in as the wind drops.

At 12.01am the temperature remains 35C.

During the night a light Southerly appears and blows the cloud and some of the heat away, the following day is mild, the temperature drops to around 20 degrees by 8.59am and only rises to 21C by 6pm, dropping to around 19C by 9pm.

BOM Maximum for Feb 4 2021: 35C.

This is immediately seized upon by Roy Spencer. He writes an outraged blog post: the BOM change has led to a 0.5C increase in the average maximum for the month of February for Melbourne, all caused by a change in the definition of a day by the BOM. The blog post appears on WUWT within hours and Breitbart points to a conspiracy to inflate temperature readings by the BOM, emails are rumoured to have been sent and Judith Curry is demanding they be released.

FFS

DS
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
OMG the deniers are lining up to show their intelligence.

No matter where you put the 24 hour period you can get 2 peaks a long way apart and 2 peaks close together, if we measure daily temperatures over a 24 hour period this is inevitable. Since a day is 24 hours it is logical to measure it over a 24 hour period.

Let me outline this in a way even you lot may understand:

In the not too distant future the following occurs:

It is January 15 2021, the BOM announces that it will now alter the way daily temperatures are measured, they will no longer use the traditional meteorological day which was 9am to 9am, they will now measure temperatures from midnight to midnight starting in Feb 2021.

In Melbourne on Feb 3 2021 it is extreme, the temperature reaches a maximum of 46C.

In the late afternoon clouds appear locking the heat in as the wind drops.

At 12.01am the temperature remains 35C.

During the night a light Southerly appears and blows the cloud and some of the heat away, the following day is mild, the temperature drops to around 20 degrees by 8.59am and only rises to 21C by 6pm, dropping to around 19C by 9pm.

BOM Maximum for Feb 4 2021: 35C.

This is immediately seized upon by Roy Spencer. He writes an outraged blog post: the BOM change has led to a 0.5C increase in the average maximum for the month of February for Melbourne, all caused by a change in the definition of a day by the BOM. The blog post appears on WUWT within hours and Breitbart points to a conspiracy to inflate temperature readings by the BOM, emails are rumoured to have been sent and Judith Curry is demanding they be released.

FFS

DS

Dad would never have the Leyland Brothers on TV because they spoke to you as though you were a simpleton. Are you a Leyland brother?

The premise behind continuing to use the same methodology has been acknowledged. No need to go on a rant.

In the same vein as my earlier unanswered question... can you point to any dates where the temperature in the early hours was higher than the daylight maximum for the day?
 
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HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
OMG the deniers are lining up to show their intelligence.

No matter where you put the 24 hour period you can get 2 peaks a long way apart and 2 peaks close together, if we measure daily temperatures over a 24 hour period this is inevitable. Since a day is 24 hours it is logical to measure it over a 24 hour period.

Let me outline this in a way even you lot may understand:

In the not too distant future the following occurs:

It is January 15 2021, the BOM announces that it will now alter the way daily temperatures are measured, they will no longer use the traditional meteorological day which was 9am to 9am, they will now measure temperatures from midnight to midnight starting in Feb 2021.

In Melbourne on Feb 3 2021 it is extreme, the temperature reaches a maximum of 46C.

In the late afternoon clouds appear locking the heat in as the wind drops.

At 12.01am the temperature remains 35C.

During the night a light Southerly appears and blows the cloud and some of the heat away, the following day is mild, the temperature drops to around 20 degrees by 8.59am and only rises to 21C by 6pm, dropping to around 19C by 9pm.

BOM Maximum for Feb 4 2021: 35C.

This is immediately seized upon by Roy Spencer. He writes an outraged blog post: the BOM change has led to a 0.5C increase in the average maximum for the month of February for Melbourne, all caused by a change in the definition of a day by the BOM. The blog post appears on WUWT within hours and Breitbart points to a conspiracy to inflate temperature readings by the BOM, emails are rumoured to have been sent and Judith Curry is demanding they be released.

FFS

DS
David you need to chill dude, you will have a stress related heart attack way before the smoke takes you out.
 
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Midsy

I am the one who knocks.
Jan 18, 2014
3,383
1,343
51
London
Most people would assume the daily ‘high’ would occur somewhere between 7.00am and 8.00pm. A reading taken at 8.45am for the previous day is clearly illogical for the lay person, despite its necessity for scientific continuity.
 

HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
Most people would assume the daily ‘high’ would occur somewhere between 7.00am and 8.00pm. A reading taken at 8.45am for the previous day is clearly illogical for the lay person, despite its necessity for scientific continuity.
I have read in articles previously that historical records were taken by a sole person and weekends were not necessarily recorded either. 9am until 9am is understandable even for us tin foil hat wearing socialist deniers.
 

HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
Do the deniers here actually care about the environment we live in on this planet at all?
Are you joining the labelling crew now ToO?
The only way someone can be seen as a friend of the environment is to just accept everything we read and hear from 4 or 5 posters on this site?
Apart from bad mouthing, virtually abusing some, finishing most debates with vitriol and being tne most virtuous posters on this site are they actually following their moral compass and showing due care for the planet let alone some regular posters?
Come on mate, caring about the environment is not really something you can show by choosing to turn up at a protest travelled to in a car or a train and scream abuse at the sides of buildings after spending your day in a high rise office building with the aircon on and the lights glowing.
We dont all live in the bubble ToO.
 
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Jul 26, 2004
78,241
38,240
www.redbubble.com
Are you joining the labelling crew now ToO?
The only way someone can be seen as a friend of the environment is to just accept everything we read and hear from 4 or 5 posters on this site?
Apart from bad mouthing, virtually abusing some, finishing most debates with vitriol and being tne most virtuous posters on this site are they actually following their moral compass and showing due care for the planet let alone some regular posters?
Come on mate, caring about the environment is not really something you can show by choosing to turn up at a protest travelled to in a car or a train and scream abuse at the sides of buildings after spending your day in a high rise office building with the aircon on and the lights glowing.
We dont all live in the bubble ToO.

That’s a long way of saying no.
 
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MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,329
13,712
A bit dehydrated today and bought a bottle of cold water at Flinders Street about 5.pm. I start drinking it on the platform and I fear the the plastic is deteriorating as its grainy and uncomfortable and strange tasting. I then realise I am taking in with my water the particles floating in the air. Once on the train the water tastes OK. Now this begs the question about that grainy crap we are inhaling but not noticing quite how crap it is. Try and stay indoors until this stuff clears a bit.

Makes you appreciate how lucky we are that we don't have to live with poor quality air permanently like many.

Not sure about the long term impacts of air pollution for a week.

In China life expectancy in polluted cities is greater than the average for the rest of the country. Beijing (one of the ten most polluted cities in the world) life expectancy is around 82, Changzhou is in the top ten also and its life expectancy is also 82. Shanghai, the largest city in China, has a life expectancy just under 84.

.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Do the deniers here actually care about the environment we live in on this planet at all?

Too much environmental care made these fires much worse than they needed to be.

The simple facts are that 40 years ago, prescribed burning in Victoria covered 300,000 hectares a year; in the lead up to Black Saturday it was 120,000 and in the past three years it was 65,000 (with much of that in the Mallee where it is of limited use).

There has been a dramatic shift away from prescribed burning despite numerous studies illustrating its benefits. It is only right that those responsible are held accountable.
 
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Jul 26, 2004
78,241
38,240
www.redbubble.com
Too much environmental care made these fires much worse than they needed to be.

The simple facts are that 40 years ago, prescribed burning in Victoria covered 300,000 hectares a year; in the lead up to Black Saturday it was 120,000 and in the past three years it was 65,000 (with much of that in the Mallee where it is of limited use).

There has been a dramatic shift away from prescribed burning despite numerous studies illustrating its benefits. It is only right that those responsible are held accountable.

Just on this I don't think it's that simple.

Shane Fitzsimmons made some really good points on this if you haven't seen it. It's definitely worth a watch.

 
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