LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Interesting.
Agree with Billy J on this one, that's some database L2R. :fing32
Keep up the good work but stop making me look like a fool. :hihi
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Goal kicking
- Thread starter Mac
- Start date
Interesting.
Agree with Billy J on this one, that's some database L2R. :fing32
Keep up the good work but stop making me look like a fool. :hihi
Bill James said:
This is what their conditions of use state:
You agree that you are only authorized to visit, view and to retain a copy of pages of this Site for your own personal use, and that you shall not duplicate, download, publish, modify or otherwise distribute the material on this Site for any purpose other than for personal use or to promote the site to others, unless otherwise specifically authorised by ProWess Sports to do so. The content and software on this Site is the property of ProWess Sports and/or its suppliers unless expressly stated by ProWess Sports and is protected by Australian and international copyright laws.
...so technically the answer may be 'yes'.
I've only rarely used stats from the site on PRE or elsewhere and I never post a simple copy/paste of what appears on their site, instead using customised summaries or analyses of their data. It's not for commercial gain or to steal their business in any way so I'd hope not to receive a please explain from them.
Tigers of Old said:
How could you leave that goal kicking machine Rocca out of that list. He makes Richo look like a sharpshooter, (except when he's outside 50m) ;D
Tigers of Old said:
Not my intention unless you start talking dribble (or at least more dribble than usual). :-X
Right on cue...
Peter Hudson: Hawk legend's lament to modern sharpshooters
Article in Launceston's The Sunday Examiner
August 19, 2007
Goal kicking legend Peter Hudson has lamented the one aspect of modern football that has not kept pace
‘They miss too many shots’ says Huddo
Statistics prove that Peter Hudson was the closest football has come to goal-kicking perfection. And Tasmania's AFL Hall of Fame legend reckons today's forwards have a lot of catching up to do. ROB SHAW reports.
FOOTY great Peter Hudson has given a damning assessment of the quality of goal-kicking in the competition he once dominated.
The former Hawthorn forward, whose average of 5.64 goals a game remains unsurpassed in senior football, was equally direct about the inaccuracy in front of goal in the modern game.
''For professional footballers there are a lot of goals that should be kicked but are missed and missed badly.'' he said.
''They can be dead in front and kick out of bounds on the full. You think that the amount of time they put in they should be able to kick them.
''When a professional footballer marks directly in front of goal 30 metres out and then misses, personally, I don't think they show enough remorse. I'd like to see them a bit dirty on themselves."
Tasmania's AFL Hall of fame legend said he believed the modern game to be a higher standard to his era in most aspects, but felt tine quality of goal kicking had deteriorated.
Asked what he considered to be an acceptable return from 10 set shots, Hudson said, "I would say at least 8.2 but more like 9.1 and I would only be truly happy with 10. To me 6.4 is approaching totally unacceptable.
"If a guy is a full-forward and his bread and butter is kicking goals, his got to ask himself why he did not Kick 10. If you have not got that positive power of thinking you have got nothing.
“If I kicked 6.4 I would think if only I had kicked straight, I’d have double figures’. Every time I the ball came into the forward line, I wanted to get it and kick a goal.
“If I did not give 100 per cent and the ball went away, that was a goal I had missed out on and you can’t ever make that up.”
When Hudson kicked 125 goals in 1968, he was the first senior player to top the ton since Essendon’s John Coleman (whom Huddo dubbed “the Phar Lap of goal-kicking”) managed the feat three times in four years nearly two decades earlier.
Hudson’s goals-a-game average that year was 5.68.
In the next four years, the 100 would be passed nine times {Hudson three times, Peter McKenna three, Doug Wade, Alex Jesaulenko and Geoff Blethyn). Only twice did goals-a-game average dip below six.
Of the 31 centuries recorded since, only four times has the average succeeded six. In the last decade the ton has been achieved just four times, none of which saw an average above five.
Hudson, a product of New Norfolk, who was a Coleman medalist four times, Hawthorn’s leading scorer six times, twice club best and fairest and shares the record of most goals in a season (150), stressed that he was not simply walling in nostalgia.
“I don’t live in the past. I don’t subscribe to the theory that the game was better in my day,” he said. “But I agree with the general consensus that while the game has improved in the terms of skill and general professionalism, the art of goal-kicking is one area that has not.
“I would like to know how much time the clubs spend on goal-kicking. I was quite surprised to find out recently that clubs have full-time biochemists, they have experts in many different areas, but I don’t know where goal-kicking fits in the weekly routine.
“If a club is not doing goal-kicking coaching then it cannot hold the player responsible for missing. If you are deficient in something, you practice at it until you are better.
“I’ll never forget Jason Dunstall would be out on Glenferrie Oval night after night having shots, with George Stone kicking the ball back to him.
Hudson, who was kept goal-less just five times during his senior career and kicked a total of 2191 goals in Tasmania and Victoria, believes that 90 per cent of goal-kicking is from the shoulders up.
He said contemporizes, Peter McKenna, Doug Wade and Alex Jesaulenko, and the next generation of Dunstall, Tony Lockett and Gary Ablett had a simple secret.
“They did their fair share of work but they kicked with their brain. I believe in any sport, brains will beat brawn any time.”
The Hawthorn and Tasmanian team of the century member has done his fair share of goal-kicking coaching, notably with Stewart Loewe at St Kilda but also Nick Holland and Jade AWLINGS AT Hawthorn as well as his son Paul.
He said the modern game was not devoid of talented exponents of the art, naming Brendan Fevola as having the most fluent technique.
But he added: “ There’s no doubt in my mind that if a young Lockett, Dunstall or Ablett came along today they could kick bags of goals – as Jonathan Brown does.
A really good full-forward can create a style of game where their team plays to them.
“Brown and Lance Franklin have the potential to do anything and Fevola has had a few good bags. But the others could do it all the time.
“Brown is an exceptional player and would have been in any era while Franklin has got the world at his feet. But Buddy is still a youngster, it is hard for Brown because he plays at centre-half-forward and we all know what’s happened to Carlton.”
Hudson said he frequently found himself watching games at home with his wife and tutting when easy shots were missed.
But he added “At the end of the day, it’s a great game and I still love watching it.”
Peter Hudson: Hawk legend's lament to modern sharpshooters
Article in Launceston's The Sunday Examiner
August 19, 2007
Goal kicking legend Peter Hudson has lamented the one aspect of modern football that has not kept pace
‘They miss too many shots’ says Huddo
Statistics prove that Peter Hudson was the closest football has come to goal-kicking perfection. And Tasmania's AFL Hall of Fame legend reckons today's forwards have a lot of catching up to do. ROB SHAW reports.
FOOTY great Peter Hudson has given a damning assessment of the quality of goal-kicking in the competition he once dominated.
The former Hawthorn forward, whose average of 5.64 goals a game remains unsurpassed in senior football, was equally direct about the inaccuracy in front of goal in the modern game.
''For professional footballers there are a lot of goals that should be kicked but are missed and missed badly.'' he said.
''They can be dead in front and kick out of bounds on the full. You think that the amount of time they put in they should be able to kick them.
''When a professional footballer marks directly in front of goal 30 metres out and then misses, personally, I don't think they show enough remorse. I'd like to see them a bit dirty on themselves."
Tasmania's AFL Hall of fame legend said he believed the modern game to be a higher standard to his era in most aspects, but felt tine quality of goal kicking had deteriorated.
Asked what he considered to be an acceptable return from 10 set shots, Hudson said, "I would say at least 8.2 but more like 9.1 and I would only be truly happy with 10. To me 6.4 is approaching totally unacceptable.
"If a guy is a full-forward and his bread and butter is kicking goals, his got to ask himself why he did not Kick 10. If you have not got that positive power of thinking you have got nothing.
“If I kicked 6.4 I would think if only I had kicked straight, I’d have double figures’. Every time I the ball came into the forward line, I wanted to get it and kick a goal.
“If I did not give 100 per cent and the ball went away, that was a goal I had missed out on and you can’t ever make that up.”
When Hudson kicked 125 goals in 1968, he was the first senior player to top the ton since Essendon’s John Coleman (whom Huddo dubbed “the Phar Lap of goal-kicking”) managed the feat three times in four years nearly two decades earlier.
Hudson’s goals-a-game average that year was 5.68.
In the next four years, the 100 would be passed nine times {Hudson three times, Peter McKenna three, Doug Wade, Alex Jesaulenko and Geoff Blethyn). Only twice did goals-a-game average dip below six.
Of the 31 centuries recorded since, only four times has the average succeeded six. In the last decade the ton has been achieved just four times, none of which saw an average above five.
Hudson, a product of New Norfolk, who was a Coleman medalist four times, Hawthorn’s leading scorer six times, twice club best and fairest and shares the record of most goals in a season (150), stressed that he was not simply walling in nostalgia.
“I don’t live in the past. I don’t subscribe to the theory that the game was better in my day,” he said. “But I agree with the general consensus that while the game has improved in the terms of skill and general professionalism, the art of goal-kicking is one area that has not.
“I would like to know how much time the clubs spend on goal-kicking. I was quite surprised to find out recently that clubs have full-time biochemists, they have experts in many different areas, but I don’t know where goal-kicking fits in the weekly routine.
“If a club is not doing goal-kicking coaching then it cannot hold the player responsible for missing. If you are deficient in something, you practice at it until you are better.
“I’ll never forget Jason Dunstall would be out on Glenferrie Oval night after night having shots, with George Stone kicking the ball back to him.
Hudson, who was kept goal-less just five times during his senior career and kicked a total of 2191 goals in Tasmania and Victoria, believes that 90 per cent of goal-kicking is from the shoulders up.
He said contemporizes, Peter McKenna, Doug Wade and Alex Jesaulenko, and the next generation of Dunstall, Tony Lockett and Gary Ablett had a simple secret.
“They did their fair share of work but they kicked with their brain. I believe in any sport, brains will beat brawn any time.”
The Hawthorn and Tasmanian team of the century member has done his fair share of goal-kicking coaching, notably with Stewart Loewe at St Kilda but also Nick Holland and Jade AWLINGS AT Hawthorn as well as his son Paul.
He said the modern game was not devoid of talented exponents of the art, naming Brendan Fevola as having the most fluent technique.
But he added: “ There’s no doubt in my mind that if a young Lockett, Dunstall or Ablett came along today they could kick bags of goals – as Jonathan Brown does.
A really good full-forward can create a style of game where their team plays to them.
“Brown and Lance Franklin have the potential to do anything and Fevola has had a few good bags. But the others could do it all the time.
“Brown is an exceptional player and would have been in any era while Franklin has got the world at his feet. But Buddy is still a youngster, it is hard for Brown because he plays at centre-half-forward and we all know what’s happened to Carlton.”
Hudson said he frequently found himself watching games at home with his wife and tutting when easy shots were missed.
But he added “At the end of the day, it’s a great game and I still love watching it.”
Tigers of Old said:
Possibly why he never coached - a champion player who can't understand why everyone couldn't do the same as he did.
The facts still contradict Hudson's opinion - whatever the reasons, players do kick a higher percentage of goals than they did in Hudson's day.
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
No doubt by the stats you & William have put up.
Still he was a remarkable goal kicker and I thought the timing was apt.
I still think there's plenty of room for improvement.
Tigers of Old said:
Good timing and very relevant. Those rascals in the Tasmanian press - always getting the scoops.
even in the netball-isation of our great game, there is always a place for a specialist coach to aid goalkicking technique; the team that gets it repeatedly inside 50 but cannot covert to goals is doomed
disco should surely be able to hand out tips to anyone who isn't too proud to accept the help from an old sharpshooter
disco should surely be able to hand out tips to anyone who isn't too proud to accept the help from an old sharpshooter
Hudson was unique. His accurate flat punts were deadly. And it didn't matter what distance he was kicking the ball would usually just clear the goal line; whether from 20 metres or 50 metres. It's as if he didn't want to over kick the ball and just put enough on it to lob it over the goal line.
One day at Waverley I voted Cowboy Neale the saints best player and was stunned to discover that Hudson had kicked 16 on him!
One day at Waverley I voted Cowboy Neale the saints best player and was stunned to discover that Hudson had kicked 16 on him!