Has the game passed Victoria by?

[RemoteTiger]

The evolution of the game of Australian Rules appears to have left Victoria behind!

This century there has been 6 premierships decided in the national competition - a Victorian based team has only secured one of those!

2000 - Essendon
2001 - Brisbane
2002 - Brisbane
2003 - Brisbane
2004 - Port Adelaide
2005 - Sydney

The individual award for being the pinnacle of the game - the Brownlow Medal has the century gone to 6 interstate players and only 2 Victorian players.

2000 - Shane Woewoden (Melbourne)
2001 - Jason Akermanis (Brisbane)
2002 - Simon Black (Brisbane)
2003 - M.Ricciuto (Adelaide), A.Goodes (Sydney), N.Buckley (Collingwood)
2004 - C.Judd (West Coast)
2005 - Ben Cousins (West Coast)

Recent football drafts of young players being selected by the clubs show that a majority of the top 10 draft picks come from interstate.

The argument that the game belongs to Victoria is now a misnomer - it is only for those who live in the past.

The game afterall had its origins in the gold fields of Captains Flat NSW then it was transferred with the miners to the more lucratice Ballarat gold fields where it was shaped into a game that became more acceptable by the populace - so Victorians cannot claim they invented it! But they can claim they took ownership of it and professionalised it to what it was up until the 1990s.

From then though the interstate clubs have taken that professionalism to a new level - leaving the Victorians well behind - claims of unfair advantages and alternative financial markets for the interstate clubs to market into have been listed as the excuses as to why the Victorian Clubs are up against it when trying to win a premiership. (10 clubs trying to eke out an existence in one market - Melbourne - while those interstate heathens have markets virutally to themselves). The home ground advantage of the interstate teams is unfair too - Victorian Clubs do not have the same in return.

No mention that the interstate clubs draft players from the same poole as the Victorian Clubs - no mention that the interstate clubs travel twice as much as the Victorian Clubs during a season of football. No mention the differences between how an interstate club is managed when compared to a Victorian Club.

Nah the blame lays firmly with the AFL allowing those heathen interstate clubs to hijack the game - they should be allowed to play in the national competition but they should not be allowed to win it!

On the basis of statistics, Victorian Clubs appear not to understand the right formula to be the top club in the new century.

What is that formula? Who knows?

The interstate clubs - thats who!

Maybe its time the Victorian Clubs took a leaf out of how the interstate clubs are managed!

The only club for mine that appears to be heading in that direction is my beloved RFC - but from a distance it is hard to sift between the fact and the fibs - the wheat and the chaff. On field TW and Co. seem to be building a team that is aligned to where the game is in the new century - off the field the reports are thin and direction is unknown.

In the end it is time to stop complaining about unfair advantages that are not really there IMO - and look to how the RFC can move its vision outside the Melbourne/Victorian area and take advantage of the new frontiers being opened up by the interstate clubs.

I am interested in your learned views............RT

 

[meltiger]

2000 - Essendon
2001 - Brisbane - Salary Cap Concessions
2002 - Brisbane - Salary Cap Concessions
2003 - Brisbane - Salary Cap Concessions
2004 - Port Adelaide - A team built on Draft Concessions when they first entered the competition
2005 - Sydney - Salary Cap Concessions

It's no where near as bad as anyone makes out.


As soon as St Kilda wake up to themselves and hire a decent coach they will win a premiership. Geelong is more than capable.

 

[Mr Brightside]

How many of the Vic teams other then us ;D have a realistic chance this year?

 

[meltiger]

How many of the Vic teams other then us ;D have a realistic chance this year?

The more important question is - At this stage, what teams have the cattle to make a real run at the Cup across all teams?

Brisbane
West Coast
Sydney
Adelaide

Melbourne
St Kilda
Geelong

4 from interstate, 3 from Victoria.

 

[Mr Brightside]

How many of the Vic teams other then us ;D have a realistic chance this year?

The more important question is - At this stage, what teams have the cattle to make a real run at the Cup across all teams?

Brisbane
West Coast
Sydney
Adelaide

Melbourne
St Kilda
Geelong

4 from interstate, 3 from Victoria.

Surley Mel you ment 4 ;D

 

[Tiger44]

Remote, whilst your assertion may apply at AFL level, if you look at the Under 18 level Victoria is clearly the dominant state, and that is after splitting their talent between Metro and Country. I don't have access to the stats but am sure that this would be further reinforced by draft numbers.

The problem as I see it arises at AFL level where the Victorian clubs have to compete with nine others for a share of the corporate dollar (and membership dollar) yet interstate teams have either no competition (in AFL anyway for Bris and Syd) and one other competitor in WA and SA. Consequently these states are financially stronger - and in the case of Bris and Syd have received significant concessions from the AFL to ensure they are super competitive.

Easier access to finances ensures these clubs can provide superior facilities, coaching and support staff and this in turn helps create a large difference between interstate and Vic clubs. A final point is the home ground advantage the interstate teams receive (and that is without some Vic teams playing home games in their state). They play all their home games at one or two venues (at worst), they also travel more frequently and therefore become accustomed to these conditions "better" than the Vic teams.

What can we do about it ? We need success to get the juggernaut rolling, we need to keep developing kids and develop a core group so that we become a good team not just a team with some good players - this comes back to the coach, his staff and all other associated matters. It can be done, look at Sydney last year.

 

[eight ace]

Judd is a Victorian.

 

[Boyanich]

What reference did you ascertain that Australian Rules Football had it's origins at "Captains Flat NSW"?

Cheers!

 

[meltiger]

How many of the Vic teams other then us ;D have a realistic chance this year?

The more important question is - At this stage, what teams have the cattle to make a real run at the Cup across all teams?

Brisbane
West Coast
Sydney
Adelaide

Melbourne
St Kilda
Geelong

4 from interstate, 3 from Victoria.

Surley Mel you ment 4 ;D

hehe

I did sign up for a Social Club membership in the hope there's a 4th Vic team to add to the list

 

[Ian4]

Remote, whilst your assertion may apply at  AFL level, if you look at the Under 18 level Victoria is clearly the dominant state, and that is after splitting their talent between Metro and Country. I don't have access to the stats but am sure that this would be further reinforced by draft numbers.

The problem as I see it arises at AFL level where the Victorian clubs have to compete with nine others for a share of the corporate dollar (and membership dollar) yet interstate teams have either no competition (in AFL anyway for Bris and Syd) and one other competitor in WA and SA. Consequently these states are financially stronger - and in the case of Bris and Syd have received significant concessions from the AFL to ensure they are super competitive.

Easier access to finances ensures these clubs can provide superior facilities, coaching and support staff and this in turn helps create a large difference between interstate and Vic clubs. A final point is the home ground advantage the interstate teams receive (and that is without some Vic teams playing home games in their state). They play all their home games at one or two venues (at worst), they also travel more frequently and therefore become accustomed to these conditions "better" than the Vic teams.

What can we do about it ?  We need success to get the juggernaut rolling, we need to keep developing kids  and develop a core group so that we become a good team not just a team with some good players - this comes back to the coach, his staff and all other associated matters. It can be done, look at Sydney last year.

couldn't agree more. since 1992, victorian teams have won 4 of the past 14 grand finals, despite having 10 of 16 teams in victoria. if people don't think there is anything wrong with that then they're kidding themselves.

so whats the solution? i'm sorry to say there is only one solution... less teams in melbourne. it will make the remaining victorian clubs richer with more members and sponsorhip dollars to be shared around.

 

[craig]

Maybe the interstate clubs have have better facilities to develop their youngsters with all their money not to mention better recruiters.
Maybe if we had WCE's recruiting staff instead of who weve had, we would be a better side maybe.

 

[poppa x]

after many many years of draft concessions, and with a sensational list; if the saints can't win a flag within 2-3 years, then the AFL is going to have to consider the plight of victorian clubs. the saints are an excellent test case.

 

[TigerForce]

I reckon Sydney are overrated and will fall this year.

 

[RemoteTiger]

Remote, whilst your assertion may apply at AFL level, if you look at the Under 18 level Victoria is clearly the dominant state, and that is after splitting their talent between Metro and Country. I don't have access to the stats but am sure that this would be further reinforced by draft numbers.

The problem as I see it arises at AFL level where the Victorian clubs have to compete with nine others for a share of the corporate dollar (and membership dollar) yet interstate teams have either no competition (in AFL anyway for Bris and Syd) and one other competitor in WA and SA. Consequently these states are financially stronger - and in the case of Bris and Syd have received significant concessions from the AFL to ensure they are super competitive.

Easier access to finances ensures these clubs can provide superior facilities, coaching and support staff and this in turn helps create a large difference between interstate and Vic clubs. A final point is the home ground advantage the interstate teams receive (and that is without some Vic teams playing home games in their state). They play all their home games at one or two venues (at worst), they also travel more frequently and therefore become accustomed to these conditions "better" than the Vic teams.

What can we do about it ? We need success to get the juggernaut rolling, we need to keep developing kids and develop a core group so that we become a good team not just a team with some good players - this comes back to the coach, his staff and all other associated matters. It can be done, look at Sydney last year.

couldn't agree more. since 1992, victorian teams have won 4 of the past 14 grand finals, despite having 10 of 16 teams in victoria. if people don't think there is anything wrong with that then they're kidding themselves.

so whats the solution? i'm sorry to say there is only one solution... less teams in melbourne. it will make the remaining victorian clubs richer with more members and sponsorhip dollars to be shared around.

I disagree - the Victorian Clubs have to look outside the Melbourne market to gain revenue - they have to become proactive in courting the Corporate Dollar from other markets - there are many many RFC fans for example that do not live in Victoria - those very same fans watch the Tigers everyweek on Foxtel (if in Australia) and on AFL.com if international - what can be done to woo those fans into becoming financial supporters? What can be done to get Companies from all around the world who have a Tiger as a logo to align themselves with the Richmond Tiger (Tiger Beer jumps to mind readily).

Are Victorian Football Club managers so narrow minded that they can only see their local market or are they so sadly lacking in Interstate or international knowledge that they cannot see ways to gain revenue from there?

Globalisation is here - it is not going to go away - get on the tram and be the first club to gain revenue from those markets.

Now if this is the problem that is preventing the club from gaining a premiership then surely it is up to the club not the AFL to find a way to fix the problem.

But answer me this -

All Clubs have the same salary caps (except for Sydney and Brisbane) so they can only offer similar contracts to their stars and their Tier 2 players and they have to offer the basic contract to their Tier 3 players. Roughly the same amount of money. The exception being that some clubs cannot afford to have full rookie lists (mainly due to mis-managed funds of previous years)

They all seem to offer similar contracts to their coaching staff - Sheedy, Malthouse, Pagan might be on a tad more

They all get their footy talent from the same poole.

Interstate clubs can afford better facilities - questionable - surely Collingwoods Lexus Centre is better than what the Swans have at the SCG ( have you seen the facilities at the SCG - they are older than Graystar and me put together and I am ancient)

My gut feel tells me this is an excuse being trotted out by the various Vic Club Managements to cover for their lack of business acumen - for I firmly believe that if you have the right cattle on the paddock well coached then you will have success - no amount of more assistant coaches and better facilities will ensure success if the players are not up to it!

I agree with your assertion that interstate teams are more use to travel and therefore perform better in away games - but surely that has been taught - it is not something that is innate to interstate footballers - can't we teach our guys the same.

Plus I agree with the homeground advantage being lost by Vic clubs - for heavens sake the MCG is our home - can't the AFL allow us to make it a cauldron of fire and pain for visiting teams - instead of us having to suffer an away feeling for our home games when we play at the Dome.

I believe there can be 10 Vic Teams - they just have to learn the new way of winning a flag in the 21st Century.

 

[cmarkidis]

Suites me. My attitude is if my Victorian team can't win the flag, I don't want any other to. Every time an interstate team has played in a GF, I have supported them on the day.

What's the best thing about Brisbanes threepeat: they beat the scum once, and the maggots twice!! Beautiful - almost tempted to become an honory member!

Maybe in the future long after diehards like us are gone (because the majority of kids growing up today won't have our passion for aussie rules); then the custodians of the game today and the past 2 decades will be seen as those that destroyed it. I enjoyed going to suburban grounds on a Saturday afternoon; didn't care if it rained; ate the atmosphere in the outer; cheered my tigers. Today, I need a ticket to sit on an empty seat, I have to get back from work on a Friday early to get to the game, I have to watch my team on TV 4 or 5 times a year, and if I call someone a b**** c*** I'm going home in a divvy van!! Kill the passion, and you kill the game.

The game might be thriving today, but lets see in 20, 30 or 50 years time.

 

[Ian4]

after many many years of draft concessions, and with a sensational list; if the saints can't win a flag within 2-3 years, then the AFL is going to have to consider the plight of victorian clubs.  the saints are an excellent test case.

makes sense (although their coach is no malcolm blight or leigh matthews)

 

[craig]

Whats wrong with MR THOM- ARSE :hihi

 

[Ian4]

one thing i strongly believe should be scrapped in AFL membership. correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe AFL membership was brought in to help pay for the AFL's share of the great southern stand. in my mind, AFL membership is a detriment to victorian clubs because a lot of AFL members choose not to take out club memberships. it's like they're a 17th club (11th club in victoria). how much revenue is that costing AFL clubs? Also, AFL members take away 20,000+ seats from traditional supporters and club members on Grand Final day.

 

[Ian4]

As at 29/01/06:
Ticketed: 15,000
Non-ticketed: 3,893

how is that comparable to last year? can anyone help me out?

 

[Liverpool]

one thing i strongly believe should be scrapped in AFL membership. correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe AFL membership was brought in to help pay for the AFL's share of the great southern stand. in my mind,  AFL membership is a detriment to victorian clubs because a lot of AFL members choose not to take out club memberships. it's like they're a 17th club (11th club in victoria). how much revenue is that costing AFL clubs? Also, AFL members take away 20,000+ seats from traditional supporters and club members on Grand Final day.

Ian4,
Maybe I'm wrong....but one of my mates is an AFL-member, and he just marks on the form each year he supports Richmond, and he gets all the Richmond stuff that us club-members get, and the same privileges (cap, Fighting Tiger mag, invite to Cocktail Party, and also continuation of the loyalty program....he's up to Gold membership now!)
Also, I'm pretty sure a good percentage of the money goes to the Richmond Footy Club, and not ALL of it goes to the AFL....so the AFL being a 17th club and taking away from the footy clubs is a bit wrong I think.
He's being trying to get me to become an AFL-member with him for a few years now, as for only about $50-$100 more, I can get to 40 matches or something.
Thats alright for him, as his wife and one of their kids are Bombers, so they go to each others games, etc with the kids.
For me, I only care about going to Tigers games...plus I have really good reserved seats at MCG and the Dome, as a Tigers member.