Have we improved enough?

[Rampaging_Richo]

TF,

There is a word which I hear mentioned with regards to players who are getting into the veteren years - EVOLUTION. To help prolong Campbo's contribution to the Tiges, a move to the back line - where he started his career - I believe would be beneficial for all concerned. The great KB is the best example of this (a move to half forward netted another 90 games and 150 goals).

As well, we can't rely on Wayne to run the midfield. We must use this year, with the intro of Johnson and Blumfield as a chance to rebuild a midfield that will service us for years to come. Of course, Wayne will spend some time in the middle (how much ???) but this is our best chance to look to the future with the young guys (Coughlan, Rodan) rather than treading water like we have for some time!!

Just my thoughts

 

[Koalalill]

IMHO- there is a number of reasons Campbell gets bagged so much.

1) is because all those years ago he wanted to leave.

2) his attitude towards supporters (witness his speech at the B&F) he does not appear to have much respect for Richmond fans.

3) I think sometimes we are looking for a Stevens, Hird or Voss to lead us - Wayne is not that type of leader. I'm not saying he is a bad captain just he doesn't stand out and take a game by the scruff of the neck.

4) he replaced a very popular and good captain and lets face it - he is seen to be very closely aligned to Danny.

Are the critics right in their thinking? I don't know- time will tell.

 

[mightytiges]

I think sometimes we are looking for a Stevens, Hird or Voss to lead us - Wayne is not that type of leader. I'm not saying he is a bad captain just he doesn't stand out and take a game by the scruff of the neck.

I think this is the main reason. Most of the past recent premiership sides have had a captain that stands out - Voss, Hird, Carey, Kernahan. A bit unfair to compare Campo's style of play with these guys as they are either CHFs or in-and-under ballwinners. Campo's natural style is as a outside player. Yes he can get the ball in packs but it shouldn't be his main task. Our lack of decent ballgetters meant he had to play that role. That will change in 2003.

Probably Bickley (although a good player) is the exception to the stand out captain. So it's not a necessity but you then need the senior group around the captain to also show leadership especially in crunch games. IMO this is where we lack. If Campo wasn't captain, none of the other senior players based on 2002 seem an obvious choice to replace him. Hopefully the addition of Johnson and Blumfield, Otto maturing, Stafford playing every game and Richo demonstrating his London game attitutde in the real stuff will fix this and in turn help Campo out..

 

[TigerFurious]

*This is not directed at you Koalalill*

1) is because all those years ago he wanted to leave.

Only because he thought the club was going nowhere and there were strong rumours they wanted to trade him. Not the best way to deal with it though.

2) his attitude towards supporters (witness his speech at the B&F) he does not appear to have much respect for Richmond fans.

Can you blame him? After 10 years of service, 4 b&f's and a consistancy level second too none ( something that is lacking at our club ) the ferals still hate him. Its probably because deep down you all know he is twice the player Knights ever was.

3) I think sometimes we are looking for a Stevens, Hird or Voss to lead us - Wayne is not that type of leader. I'm not saying he is a bad captain just he doesn't stand out and take a game by the scruff of the neck.

There are at least 6 players on our list with more talent then campbell but will never achieve half of what he has because they don't have the same attitude and determination. Campbell is nowhere near as good as Hird or Voss but he should be admired for getting the most out of his abilities not hated because he doesn't crash through packs or take big marks in the goalsquare.

4) he replaced a very popular and good captain and lets face it - he is seen to be very closely aligned to Danny.

Knights - popular? yes, good captain? No. he was captain for 4 season and we missed the finals in all 4 years. And apart from 98' his performances were not befitting someone on 400k a year.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

*This is not directed at you Koalalill*

Only because he thought the club was going nowhere and there were strong rumours they wanted to trade him.   Not the best way to deal with it though.

Can you blame him?  After 10 years of service, 4 b&f's and a consistancy level second too none ( something that is lacking at our club ) the ferals still hate him.  Its probably because deep down you all know he is twice the player Knights ever was.

There are at least 6 players on our list with more talent then campbell but will never achieve half of what he has because they don't have the same attitude and determination.  Campbell is nowhere near as good as Hird or Voss but he should be admired for getting the most out of his abilities not hated because he doesn't crash through packs or take big marks in the goalsquare.

Knights - popular? yes, good captain? No.  he was captain for 4 season and we missed the finals in all 4 years.  And apart from 98' his performances were not befitting someone on 400k a year.

totally agree with you there TF.i admit i use to be a cambo critic however i admire the way he goes about things after what happened whenhe wanted to leave the club.his whole attitude changed and for the better and any supporter deep down would have known what he was going on about.
in fact his actions did change the club,s attitude towards how to become a more professional club from the top to the bottom.
i agree cambo will never be a voss or hird but neither was knights.the closest our past capts that would have got anywhewere near the voss, and hird [inspirtaional,respect wise] was tony free in my opinion.

 

[Rampaging_Richo]

Spot on TF,

This leads us onto who will be our next captain when Campbell either retires or relinquishes the duties.

I suppose the candidates would come from the following;
*Richo - His performance in London - whilst being a mickey mouse match - was encouraging and probably make him the likely successor to Campbo

*Ottens - Still very young, but his maturity even when he couldn't buy a mark this year was great to watch. Would be high on the list.

*Gaspar - I would think he would be lucky to hold onto his vice captaincy for 2003. His performance in 2002 ensured he will never captain Richmond.

*Stafford - one from the left, but when he was fit he was great, and from the stands appeared to be a great team man.

*Rodan - One for the future. His endeavour is something that would certainly inspire his teamates.

*Bowden - A very talented player but doesn't take a game by the scruff off the neck when it is needed. Too much of a CAT to be captain - it doesn't look good when he pulls out of the odd contest.

*Blumfield - When he was fit at Bombers he was a great player who always contributed. Interesting to see how he goes at a club with a lot less talent.

Richo maybe, but Ottens for sure due to Richo being 30+ by the time Campbo retires.

 

[Tigerblood]

Amongst other things, the captain must be:

- The best trainer
- An intelligent and erudite public speaker
- Undropable

Now even Campbell's critics would have to admit that he covers those three criteria better than anyone else.

I beg to differ with the continual 'inside/outside' categorisation of midfielders. Watch the restarts of play - Campbell is more often than not the player that gets the ball first after the ruckmen have had their clash. That's not the work of a 'receiver'. The problem is that he does tend to bang it straight on the boot, almost blindly, whereas a Buckley or Voss could handpass straight to a teamate. Now I don't think Campo is in their class for skill, but I do wonder what game people have been watching when they call Campbo an 'outside' ball carrier.

I see Campbo as our Allan Border. He was super-consistent without ever being the most skilled bloke around. He was the only man you could be sure, at the start of the season, wouldn't lose form. He didn't molly-coddle teamates - if you weren't carrying your load, he let you know in no uncertain terms. He didn't give a stuff about popularity contests. He was desperate for success.

Campbell will take us to the doorstep of a great era in the way Border did. The next couple of captains will reap the benefits and acolades for what the Campbells did in one of the toughest periods of the team's history - i.e. just like Taylor and Waugh have.

 

[admin]

Knights - popular? yes, good captain? No.  he was captain for 4 season and we missed the finals in all 4 years.  And apart from 98' his performances were not befitting someone on 400k a year.

Time will tell with Campbo, TF. He has led us to one more finals series than Knighter did, followed by one of our most disappoingting seasons for many years.
Disappointing because we had the team to do a lot better.
Personally I think it's pretty harsh blaming our lack of success on either captain, or even comparing them.
There are so many differing factors involved. Different eras, different coaches, different playing personal.
I don't think either would go down as a successful captain at this stage in time if captancy was measured on finals appearances.
I also think it's pretty harsh to judge Knighter on his salary. That value goes deeper than on field performance. Knighter was a peoples captain imo. I'd say #33 was second only to #12 as the number of preference on kids backs.
I would think Knighter's popularity was worth money to the club, as is Richo's so called "franchise" value.
It would be hard to argue that many of our players onfield performance has been worthy of the salary they get. I guess all we can ask is that they play to the best of their ability on a consistant basis. That and that they aren't offered massive contracts when they are past their prime.
Go Tiges. Go Campbo, 2003 premiership captain.

 

[Koalalill]

*This is not directed at you Koalalill* - TF I don't take things like this personally.

But you raise an interesting point about Knights and his capataincy - I said Knights was a good Captain you said no he wasn't and I think based that on us not making the finals (I may be wrong on that). But I don't think you can use that as way of grading a Captain - if we did you'd have to say that The Flea was a shocker as Captain but he was terrific.

Tigerblood - suggested that a captain should have 3 characteristics

- The best trainer
- An intelligent and erudite public speaker
- Undropable

These are 3 things that stood out with Knighter (IMO).

Training - even Danny would have to admit (even through gritted teeth) that Matthew Knights was always the first to trainings and team meetings.

Public Speaking - I'd give Campbo an extra tick on that one but Knighter was good - especially when talking to the kids.

Undropable - I don't think any player is undropable - unfortunately it seemed during the course of 2002 the media had a large say in our selections.

I will admit to being one of the supporters who was angry when Wayne wanted to leave (and I have it on good advice that he was never up for trade) and it took a number of years for him to gain my respect as Richmond person again but he did it over time and I think over time he will win over a few more people.

 

[diggler]

Most tiger supporters are intelligent folk and don't respect Cambo, because on countless big games in his career he has flopped and gone missing.
What did captain dud actually say at B/F?

 

[Koalalill]

Apart from telling us all that he practically lives with Danny and his missus ;D

Unfortunately, Diggler my friends at Fox Footy have not replayed the B&F for at least 2 weeks because they seem to be too busy replaying the same 15-20 games of 2002 (and funny I thought there were about 180+ games in year but I digrese) and I cannot remember word for word but...

Wayne thanked Danny for his support and went onto say that to repay Danny's faith in him they would have to win a premiership together to basically satisfy all supporters because we can be ...er... a tad bit difficult to please and a bit harsh in our expectations.

If it gets shown again I will make a note of it