History says we cant win a premiership

[Punxsutawney Phil]

Didn't say the '06 class will take us forward, I meant that they will need to because there isn't much from prior years drafts to get excited about. The '06 boys may all be hacks. I hope to god they arent.


Every club has youth they think will take them to success. Not sure that anyone could confidently say that ours is better than anyoune elses.

 

[pahoffm]

As good a coach as i think Terry Wallace is and as promising as the young brigade of players are that will supposedly lead us to the promised land in the years to come I dont think Richmond will win a premiership with the running style of game Wallace wants Richmond to play. Not only Richmond but any side(eg Bulldogs etc) that play the running style of game. I think we will make the finals and be a force(NOT this year) but will not have the game plan to play a grand final and even if we did, win a premiership.

History shows that finals football does not lend itself to open running games. Finals football is close checking, hard ball gets, constant pressure football where space to run is rare. As sensational as the Doggies were last year the moment they came up against a close checking hard marking side(west coast) they got hammered. As dominant as the Power was during the regular season when it got to the finals it got hammerred. It wasnt until it hardened up, manned but and played dour football did it win finals and finally a Premiership.

One only has to look at the history of who has won the premiership and the side has regardless of its skill and poise been a close checking, hard ball gets, constant pressure team. It doesnt matter whether you are talking about the tigers of the 60s and 70s who played the long kicking game or the possession football of the 80s hawks or the lions of the 2000s. None of them played an open style that allowed for easy possessions and loose ball gets for the opposition.

For Wallace to lead us to a Premiership he would need to defy history and the thoughts of coaches like Roos, Worsfold, Matthews and Hafey who have all climbed to the pinnacle and have developed sides that played finals style football week in week out so that when the business end of the season came they knew what it look to go all the way.

Not too sure Pete.

Melbourne in the 1950s played an open running style that won them a few premierships.

In the 60s, both Geelong & Richmond adopted open running games for premiership wins.

In the 1970s, North ran the ball at all costs to win premierships.

In its 1979-82 golden era, Carlton's mosquito fleet ran sides off their feet for premierships.

Westcoast did the same thing in the early 90s.

Brisbane's mosquito fleet did the same in the early 2Ks, followed by Port Adelaide in 2004, and Westcoast last year.

There appears to be not a "single way" to win a premiership, but an open running game is one of the ways.

There also seems to be a fine balance between runners & talls in premiership sides too.
Premiership sides need both.

 

[QueenslandTiger]

History says we've won 10 flags so I don't know that that the title of your thread is accurate.

I thought exactly the same thing.

It is a shame that we don't have more people at Richmond who can create a culture that will accept nothing less than a premiership.

I thought Terry was one of those poeple. I am not so sure now. I am not advocating a new coach but some sort of shake up to change the club culture.

 

[Skills]

History says we've won 10 flags so I don't know that that the title of your thread is accurate.

I thought Terry was one of those poeple. I am not so sure now. I am not advocating a new coach but some sort of shake up to change the club culture.

The change process towards a winning culture will take some time at Richmond. In most cases we interpret change to be tangible: better players, more wins, finals appearances...etc...etc. But the change process may actually be occuring without you noticing: intangibles.

We should see this era under TW as a project. There are three things that must come together for success. They operate at rational, working & emotional/ political levels. How well we manage this project will depend on the interaction of our football dept. & the systems TW/ GM put in place.

1/3 of our efforts must be placed into the structure & methods - TW has done alot of work in this area. Now, we need to focus a great deal on the other 2/3's effort - The motivation, coorporation and the conflicts within.

There is no substantiated historical evidence to suggest we cant win a premiership - Our attention to detail in these respective area's will only determine our fate.

 

[Tigerfan]

the socceroos won a game in the wold cup and made the round of 16.

forget history :clap

 

[mld]

Irrelevant.

 

[pahoffm]

Amazing.

As a child, I read stories about the ancient Hebrews wandering the desert & how it took 40 years to change their culture from that of slavery to free men.
Stories of how Moses goes off to get the 10 commandments & 5 minutes later, after he's left, they've gone back to their old ways.

I think Terry has a tougher job.

 

[tigergollywog]

Ive got to agree partially Pete. I've thought the same thing about the dogs game plan. It relies on precision and precisions a hard thing to maintain in the pressure of finals. However, I reckon precision and hard running are different things. Add a ruckman and a couple of pack marking big forwards to a fleet of skilled hard runners, and I reckon a flags likely. If Darcy can get back into the ruck and Grant could stay at CHF, the dxogs could do it. If we can get some kicking precision into our speedsters while Simmo and Richo are still going, or if JR is the next royce hart, we might be a chance.

 

[Dyer'ere]

As good a coach as i think Terry Wallace is and as promising as the young brigade of players are that will supposedly lead us to the promised land in the years to come I dont think Richmond will win a premiership with the running style of game Wallace wants Richmond to play. Not only Richmond but any side(eg Bulldogs etc) that play the running style of game. I think we will make the finals and be a force(NOT this year) but will not have the game plan to play a grand final and even if we did, win a premiership.

History shows that finals football does not lend itself to open running games. Finals football is close checking, hard ball gets, constant pressure football where space to run is rare. As sensational as the Doggies were last year the moment they came up against a close checking hard marking side(west coast) they got hammered. As dominant as the Power was during the regular season when it got to the finals it got hammerred. It wasnt until it hardened up, manned but and played dour football did it win finals and finally a Premiership.

One only has to look at the history of who has won the premiership and the side has regardless of its skill and poise been a close checking, hard ball gets, constant pressure team. It doesnt matter whether you are talking about the tigers of the 60s and 70s who played the long kicking game or the possession football of the 80s hawks or the lions of the 2000s. None of them played an open style that allowed for easy possessions and loose ball gets for the opposition.

For Wallace to lead us to a Premiership he would need to defy history and the thoughts of coaches like Roos, Worsfold, Matthews and Hafey who have all climbed to the pinnacle and have developed sides that played finals style football week in week out so that when the business end of the season came they knew what it look to go all the way.

I agree with pretty much every word, Pete. Crucial to Port’s Premiership was that they replaced lightweight under-achiever (in finals) Josh Francou with Roger James who crashed his way to a number of crucial clearances in heavy traffic- we’re talking Lenny Hayes class heavy traffic. And they added Hardwick and one or two others for grunt. They needed it. Classic underweight H&A side exposed in finals. See Collingwood in the seventies for the benchmark.

The exception is the WCE- a light running side. But their runners are fed by a genius like Judd, the freakishly strong Kerr and a dominant ruck like Cox. All the same Sydney has been able to curb them in finals matches with brutal football. But the WCE did beef up their team with Lynch (did not play in 05) Stenglein, Selwood and deployed Chick and Banfield in defence with Waters.

 

[Freezer]

350 words - an excellent post. ;D

 

[King of the Jungle]

It's been since 2000 when a Vic club won a flag anyway & I can't see that changing in the next couple of years with the Eagles only being a young side, Port seem to be on the way back up Adelaide doing well with all the injuries they have Sydney will always be around the mark & Brisbane are getting stronger again. I forgot Fremantle they wore flag favorites start of the year but can't see them doing it this year maybe 2008.