How would they go? | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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How would they go?

Given the current list, my 1st choice team would differ as follows:

Raines Thursfield Newman
Bowden Polak Johnson
Deledio Tuck Tivendale
Riewoldt Richardson Tambling
Pettifer Shulz Brown
Followers: Simmonds, Foley, Coughlan

Int: Pattison, Meyer, Polo, Edwards

Em: Oakley-Nichols, Hall, Hughes, Hartigan
 
Tigers2011 said:
Given the current list, my 1st choice team would differ as follows:

Raines Thursfield Newman
Bowden Polak Johnson
Deledio Tuck Tivendale
Riewoldt Richardson Tambling
Pettifer Shulz Brown
Followers: Simmonds, Foley, Coughlan

Int: Pattison, Meyer, Polo, Edwards

Em: Oakley-Nichols, Hall, Hughes, Hartigan

There a couple of fundamental flaws with this team, when we talk about top eight sides. I will try and list them:
1) lack of genuine superstars - Richo & Brown aside (and they are getting old), this side has no superstars
2) ruck division - Simmonds needs support, because he can't ruck all day
3) lack of key defenders - Thursdfield & Polak don't cut it, and would be close to the worst pair of first choice key backs in the AFL
4) no "fire starters" or spark players - it is a team devoid of the spark provided by players like Judd, Brad Johnson or Davey
5) a lack of quality young players - it is fine to say we have Lids and Schulz, but clubs like Port, Hawthorn & Collingwood have so many more than we do.

In short, it is a pipe dream to get this team on the park, and even if we did, I am not sure it would do that well...
 
Turbo Tiger said:
There a couple of fundamental flaws with this team, when we talk about top eight sides.  I will try and list them:
1) lack of genuine superstars - Richo & Brown aside (and they are getting old), this side has no superstars
2) ruck division - Simmonds needs support, because he can't ruck all day
3) lack of key defenders - Thursdfield & Polak don't cut it, and would be close to the worst pair of first choice key backs in the AFL
4) no "fire starters" or spark players - it is a team devoid of the spark provided by players like Judd, Brad Johnson or Davey
5) a lack of quality young players - it is fine to say we have Lids and Schulz, but clubs like Port, Hawthorn & Collingwood have so many more than we do.

Other than point 2, you could be describing Sydney. I think Knobel was integral to our plans, but kept breaking down.
 
Hence the reference to the current list. I don't think any of us believe the current list to be perfect. However I would disagree with TT re Polak and Thursfield. I think they will both be very good players for the club.

The majority of the young players in the best 22 also give me cause for optimism, although there's no doubt better recruiting over the next 2-3 seasons is required.
 
Tigers2011 said:
...although there's no doubt better recruiting over the next 2-3 seasons is required.

Ain't that an understatement!

Don't think they will be passing up any 6' 6" indigenous kids who kick goals naturally, run like the wind and kick like a mule. Oh well, no point crying over ...
 
Tigers2011 said:
Hence the reference to the current list. I don't think any of us believe the current list to be perfect. However I would disagree with TT re Polak and Thursfield. I think they will both be very good players for the club.

The majority of the young players in the best 22 also give me cause for optimism, although there's no doubt better recruiting over the next 2-3 seasons is required.

I think Turbo was exactly on the money in all particulars. We can have some cause for optimism and hope sure but its all future stuff, this season a number of our players are nothing like any top eight team counterpart you care to name. Other than Foley who I think is coming on beautifully, you could pick any two position players and compare them to their counterparts in a top eight side and we would be found wanting on actual form and quality in 2007. This works all the way to our emergencies. Try it. Full back & CHB. FF & CHF. Two wingers, pretty much anything if you select two of our players and compare them with two of the opposition we are in trouble.

Unfortunately our ladder position reflects this. Maybe form reflects structure and if you start winning form lifts everywhere but even without any injuries general form of our players this year hasn't indicated the capability to be a top eight side. We wouldn't be on the bottom duking it out with Melbourne but we wouldn't be in the eight either.
 
Turbo Tiger said:
Tigers2011 said:
...although there's no doubt better recruiting over the next 2-3 seasons is required.

Ain't that an understatement!

Don't think they will be passing up any 6' 6" indigenous kids who kick goals naturally, run like the wind and kick like a mule. Oh well, no point crying over ...


Strewth Turbo, you couldn't be more right!

Thank god we didn't pass one of them up like the Hawks did when they passed over Franklin for Roughie!
 
Brettstigers said:
Maybe form reflects structure and if you start winning form lifts everywhere but even without any injuries general form of our players this year hasn't indicated the capability to be a top eight side. We wouldn't be on the bottom duking it out with Melbourne but we wouldn't be in the eight either.

It's all hypothetical, but with Brown, Coughlan, Simmonds and maybe Knobel and Hall all sound, and the team playing with the same purpose as in early 2005, I think we could have won the Carlton, Sydney, Collingwood, West Coast and Adelaide games (and perhaps the Dogs game). Geelong have five wins and are 3rd on the ladder.

Problem is that we're unlikely to see some of those players at their best again and need to develop replacements.
 
We could say we could make the 8 with a totally fit team, but then opposition teams would have a superfit team aswell and they would just fly straight past us and we would still be bottom 12
 
Turbo Tiger said:
Tigers2011 said:
...although there's no doubt better recruiting over the next 2-3 seasons is required.

Ain't that an understatement!

Don't think they will be passing up any 6' 6" indigenous kids who kick goals naturally, run like the wind and kick like a mule. Oh well, no point crying over ...
Oops, look out. Turbo needs to change the sheets again! ::)
 
Best team for me would be..........

FB: McGuane Thursfield J.Bowden
HB: Raines Polak Newman
C: Tambling Coughlan Polo
HF: Pettifer Hughes Meyer
FF: Riewoldt Richardson N.Brown
R: Simmonds Foley Deledio
INT: Pattison Edwards Schulz King

EMER: Johnson Tuck Tivendale Krak P.Bowden Hall Jon Casserly White
 
Who knows far too hard too say.

I don't think Edwards, King, Hughes and co would have got as much ground time if we had a full squad.
 
how would they go - they would get flogged just like they are now

the only 3 quality players out are Brown, simmons and cogs

the real reason we are where we are is because our senior players like richo, bowden, tivendale, kraka and johnson are all soft physically and mentally (i am not disputing their football ability) just their hardness at the contest, at the man and their ability to change the course of the game (they are all front runners) we get bullied by everyone and have done for years, teams like kangaroos, swans, dees, bombers, pies, port, crows, lions, eagles have all made us their bitches for years.

when your core of senior players have this trait you are in trouble for a long time, the kids need time to build their bodies and take over from the core group, the question is are lids & bling going to take the game by the scruff of the neck physically and mentally as these are our quality mids (im not sure)

we are relying on a first gamer kid like riewoldt to be our spark....... thats a worry

i said a long time ago we need hardness, hard players that can physically and mentally take the game and the opposition on - i dont see it in our ranks anywhere

i look at a side like the kangaroos and pies - they dont have the best lists and dont have too many stars but they do have hardness and mental toughness and their culture ensures that they play that way

in my mind this is our biggest problem and has been for years, we dont have, and wont recruit hard players.

for years we have idolised soft players (no disrespect) but knights, brodders, gale, campbell, bowden, richo, browny, daffy - all good players but all lacked physicality and mental toughness

we need players with grit and mongrel like archer, king, voss, J.brown, kerr, they dont grow on trees but until we recruit a real mongrel with some size and presence for the middle and players like riewoldt, foley, polo get the body mass to insert some physical presence we will continue to get bullied by every other team for a long time to come.
 
Turbo Tiger said:
5) a lack of quality young players - it is fine to say we have Lids and Schulz, but clubs like Port, Hawthorn & Collingwood have so many more than we do.
Interesting you name Shultz.Wouldnt by chance by naming him it would make your Non Tiger view look stronger. :P
 
Tango said:
...in my mind this is our biggest problem and has been for years, we dont have, and wont recruit hard players.

...we need players with grit and mongrel...

The Hawks have recruited these types over the last few years. Like:
1) Cambell Brown
2) Luke Hodge
3) Jordan Lewis
4) Richie Vandenberg (few years ago now)
5) Michael Osborne
6) Sam Mitchell

Also players like Roughead, Croad and Robert Campbell apply huge physical force around the ground.

You may laugh, but this is the blueprint. We started at the same spot three years ago, after 1/3 of this season they are in the top four and we are winless.

We need to learn from this!
 
Turbo Tiger said:
The Hawks have recruited these types over the last few years. Like:
1) Cambell Brown
2) Luke Hodge
3) Jordan Lewis
4) Richie Vandenberg (few years ago now)
5) Michael Osborne
6) Sam Mitchell

Also players like Roughead, Croad and Robert Campbell apply huge physical force around the ground.

You may laugh, but this is the blueprint. We started at the same spot three years ago, after 1/3 of this season they are in the top four and we are winless.

We need to learn from this!

Come on champ, it's getting a bit old now....... :sleeping