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If you think the Tigers or Dees are close to a flag, you're dreaming-Herald Sun

tigermike

Tiger Superstar
Apr 6, 2014
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I think Melbourne is being too optimistic with their current list to use a timeline of only 4 years (up to end of 2023) to talk about multiple finals appearances and flags. A projection of 8 to 10 years might not be what the fans want to hear but it is more realistic. Let us not forget the tigers made a Pre-lim in 2001 then it took another 12 years to make even an elimination final.
 

The Big Richo

Moderator
Aug 19, 2010
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The home of Dusty
I think Melbourne is being too optimistic with their current list to use a timeline of only 4 years (up to end of 2023) to talk about multiple finals appearances and flags. A projection of 8 to 10 years might not be what the fans want to hear but it is more realistic. Let us not forget the tigers made a Pre-lim in 2001 then it took another 12 years to make even an elimination final.
It depends how genuine their 2018 form is I think.

I wouldn't be surprised if they bounce back hard this year because last season they were really done before the ball was bounced with the injury/surgery lists they had pre-season.
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
25,490
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Melbourne
I think Melbourne is being too optimistic with their current list to use a timeline of only 4 years (up to end of 2023) to talk about multiple finals appearances and flags. A projection of 8 to 10 years might not be what the fans want to hear but it is more realistic. Let us not forget the tigers made a Pre-lim in 2001 then it took another 12 years to make even an elimination final.
Not sure they ran on their merits for the whole of last season, if you know what I mean.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Superstar
Dec 11, 2017
2,078
1,442
Melbourne
It depends how genuine their 2018 form is I think.

I wouldn't be surprised if they bounce back hard this year because last season they were really done before the ball was bounced with the injury/surgery lists they had pre-season.
I reckon they will bounce back but not convinced they will bounce back to premiership contention compared to Richmond, West Coast, GWS, Collingwood.

Multiple finals appearances over the next 4 years? Well, given their form in 2018 they should be able to pull that off and should be disappointed if they can't. But premierships may take longer and Melbourne need to be careful not to set themselves up for failure by setting the bar too high. If I was them I'd be saying finals at least 3 of the next 4 years with the hope of contending for the flag, break the premiership drought by 2027 at the latest (ie: be realistic and look to make it as certain as you can in 4-8 years).

Changing culture takes time. Imagine the culture they must have had in the 1950s and early 1960s. Then compare to the culture at least since the 1970s, it is not a winning culture. It took Richmond years to build and I suspect it will take Melbourne a fair amount of time although they should be starting from part way there after making a PF in 2018.

We all know winning flags is damned hard. 18 team competition, equalisation, contending with clubs with huge memberships and resources. You have to aim for premierships but look at StKilda, geez they were a very very good team for a few years there but still couldn't quite win one. That is how hard it is.

DS
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
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It depends how genuine their 2018 form is I think.

I wouldn't be surprised if they bounce back hard this year because last season they were really done before the ball was bounced with the injury/surgery lists they had pre-season.
injuries, gameplan, trades, mental focus all played a part.
Their 22 is good but is short on class and is underwhelming forward. It has gaps.

The state of origin had me thinking, which Dee would play? Gawn and Oliver are walkups, imo Jetta is a fringe.
The other mids of viney brayshaw harmes wouldnt. May, Lever wouldnt. No forwards. I cant see enough elite players in the 22-28 yo.

They can make finals but still need sufficient development to be a consistent contender.
Probably similar to our 2013-14-15 and still needing to forge the steel.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Superstar
Dec 11, 2017
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Melbourne
Even in 2018 before the finals their defence looked like it let too many goals through. Defence wins flags. They can make finals but to really contend I reckon Melbourne need some better defenders. I'm sure they know that and are trying to recruit and train up for this but it will take time.

DS
 
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The Big Richo

Moderator
Aug 19, 2010
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The home of Dusty
injuries, gameplan, trades, mental focus all played a part.
Injuries certainly at the forefront. When you look at the numbers they had available in preseason last year there was no way they were going to compete.

Putting aside the impact on the football curriculum, not being able to add another training year and build a fitness and strength base is catastrophic in terms of any athletes capacity to perform at any level, let alone the most physically demanding sport on the planet.
 
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Tiger Pops

Tiger Champion
Apr 22, 2008
3,538
99
Melbourne
They wont bounce back - they might improve up the ladder but they had a forward line in 2018 that wont feature again. - Macdonald - Garlett - Hogan gave them some decent bite in 2018. 2019 they had the enigmatic Petraca as their leading goal kicker with a total of only 22 goals. I just dont know how they will kick scores over a whole season with this list. But you never know, new season, opportunities for someone to step up!
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
36,289
3,480
Melbourne's biggest problem is that they destroyed the entire culture of the team when they went on their systematic tanking mission. It institutionalised the concept of losing is ok, don't worry about this year as next year will be better, winning isn't everything.

That's the fans as well. Still the worst image of AFL I can remember is the Melbourne "fans" cheering and singing our club song when we beat them.

Seriously, that club will take 20 years or more to get over what happened. Best merge them with North and send them to Tassie
 
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TigerFlag2017

Tiger Legend
May 16, 2007
5,370
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I am not impressed by Goodwin as a coach. Same could be said about Hardwick in early days and in 2016, but Goodwin looks like a deer in the headlights.
 
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Nico

You psychopathological reactionary!
Jul 1, 2004
1,566
136
Melbourne
Finals in the next 4 years? Gee...that puts some pressure on this year. Get off to a bad start and their plan could be cactus by June.
 

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
19,261
1,635
Got a feeling Smelbourne might fringe around the eight for a few years but that might be about it.

Last few seasons we've traded in the likes of Cadds, Presty, Lynch n snaffled a couple of bonuses in Stacka n Fish. That's one hell of an upswing n bolstering of the playing list. Compare that to Smelbourne picking up Lever, May, Koldjashnij, Pruess who've all had injury issues n provided very little while also losing Hogan who while talented has had plenty of issues.
There's not a hell of a lot between getting things right and wrong but with the restricted lists and salary cap, getting a couple of things wrong can wipe out any foreseen promise or potential improvement.
 

CarnTheTiges

This is a REAL tiger
Mar 8, 2004
18,799
932
Victoria
Yep, very questionable whether they have the people to do it. Benny go s*** for his plan and it was a 10 year plan. Very ambitious but at least there was some recognition of how long this can take. We'll see if Melbourne can pull this off. For all the crap that was going on at Richmond I felt a lot better when we actually let Geishen and Wallace run their full contracts (hope I got that right, memory is not always the best) rather than sacking them part way through, there was a realisation that 2 years as coach was too short to decide and that, even though both were not re-appointed, they were given the full 5 years.

DS
The Giesch wasn’t sacked. He resigned with time left on his contract. Ironically the reason he walked was because while publicly backing him, privately the board were talking to Sheedy, because he had once again played the Richmond card to leverage Essendon into giving him what he wanted. I think it was the last time we fell for it.
Reading this article makes the smashing we gave his baby of GWS in the GF even sweeter.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Superstar
Dec 11, 2017
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The Giesch wasn’t sacked. He resigned with time left on his contract. Ironically the reason he walked was because while publicly backing him, privately the board were talking to Sheedy, because he had once again played the Richmond card to leverage Essendon into giving him what he wanted. I think it was the last time we fell for it.
Reading this article makes the smashing we gave his baby of GWS in the GF even sweeter.
Yeah, see above, it was Frawley and Wallace who got their full contracts, I got that wrong.

Can you imagine a similar situation with someone like Sheedy trying to play us off against their current employer? The difference in culture is enormous. It took time and it can't have been easy, but it is critical.

Big ask to turn Melbourne around but that's what it will take. I think it is critical they try things and be prepared to fail in order to turn it around. Time will tell if they can pull it off.

DS
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
25,490
2,383
Melbourne
Can you imagine a similar situation with someone like Sheedy trying to play us off against their current employer? The difference in culture is enormous. It took time and it can't have been easy, but it is critical.
We had a messiah complex for a long time. Supporters looked to the coach to perform miracles, and the coach looked to Richo.

When one finally arrived, we didn't realise it for about seven and a half years...
 
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antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
17,718
1,960
If you think the Tigers or Dees are close to a flag, you're dreaming
Kevin Sheedy
Sunday Herald Sun
April 18, 2010


RICHMOND and Melbourne have been so poor we'll start talking about the Melbourne Tigers soon.

That's the sad reality of where these clubs are at. It would mean one less team in the competition and opens the door for a Tasmanian side to come in.

This situation is an indictment on recruiting, personnel and direction.

For both clubs.

The message now has to be - if you don't get it right in the next two to five years you will be under severe pressure.

Neither of them have excited fans and neither has a player who we widely tout as the next Ablett, Hird or Carey.

The word premiership cannot even be mentioned. They are kidding themselves if they are even thinking about it.

So let's look at Richmond first. I've heard so many noises about five-year plans that I'm starting to wonder where they begin and finish. They need to learn what winning means and they need to think about recruiting and development.

Invest in this department like never before because you just can't afford to keep getting it wrong.

Poor decisions have blighted the club but I don't believe Ben Cousins was one of those. He can still lead and help the younger players. And he is better than half the players on the list anyway.

Too many players get easy games and even though they're young it still needs to be earned.

That brings me to Melbourne. It is good to see Tom Scully and Jack Trengove stepping straight into the big time.

I spoke to Melbourne about coaching when I finished up at Essendon because I thought it was an opportunity to really grasp.

Dean Bailey won the job on merit and he's building a club. That's more important than winning a premiership.

It's exactly what Hawthorn did after averting a merger. Melbourne is still struggling to get back on its feet, but it has been in a better position than Richmond for quite some time. That's why the Tigers went after Craig Cameron who was recruiting manager at Melbourne.

The thing I can't understand is how both clubs have consistently picked up midfielders. In my mind you err on the side of height.

And I think Jack Watts will be a terrific player for the Demons, but I wouldn't have looked past Nic Naitanui. He is a guy who hits the ball and runs after it like it's on a string. A guy who brings people through the gates. A guy Melbourne will regret not taking.

Then there's Lance "Buddy" Franklin. The Tigers chose Richard Tambling and he's a fantastic person who perhaps has suffered from not being in a good side. But how you could overlook a prodigious talent like Franklin still bewilders me.

And now the landscape is changing so the access to early draft picks will dry up.

Melbourne has had the lion's share of early picks in the past three drafts and the jury is out.

These two teams are four yards apart in their home grounds but are so closely aligned in regard to their dire predicaments.

Both of these proud clubs should not be in the unenviable position they find themselves in today. It is sad how they haven't adapted since we moved from the VFL to the AFL.

Melbourne has at least got to a Grand Final in the past decade but poor decisions have cost the club a decade. Richmond has been set back even longer.


RICHMOND'S FAB FIVE

BRETT DELEDIO
Has won two best and fairests in a bad side. An obvious shining light.

TRENT COTCHIN
Needs to play more footy.

JACK RIEWOLDT
Enthusiastic forward but needs to find consistency.

NATHAN FOLEY
Forgotten midfielder who adds a touch of class.

KELVIN MOORE
A damn good, honest player. Hopefully Alex Rance stands up alongside him.


MELBOURNE'S FAB FIVE

CALE MORTON
A classy user of the ball who has been sorely missed.

JACK GRIMES
A real leader in the back half.

TOM SCULLY
Top draft pick who looks the goods.

JACK TRENGOVE
Shows poise beyond his years already.

JAMES FRAWLEY
Only query is his disposal, but he's what you call a solid choice.


Kevin Sheedy believes Trent Cotchin should be Richmond's next captain. Source: HWT Image Library

Edit: Forgot the link

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...g-youre-dreaming/story-e6frf9ox-1225855008213




Fair old slap from Sheeds, although the article doesn't contain much of substance that hasn't been said before (except perhaps the inclusion of Moore in our 'fab five'). Seems his unsuccessful tilt at the coaching job has soured him towards the club.
To be fair to Sheedy, this was 2010. He was right not to expect success in the next five years, and right to say it would take a cultural change and for a few of those players to blossom. He did nominate Rance as one who would hopefully improve, and he did.

Comparing Melbourne and Richmond - well, we got a beauty in Dimma, and great leadership from Benny and Peggy. That's significant. Melbourne churned through coaches, tanked, cheated, showed flashes but didn't address the real problems. They always chose the quick fix, easy path until Roos started. That's still an experiment without a result given their current state.

Dimma showed clear improvement every year (maybe one or two plateaus), and only one really poor year where we went backwards. So it wasn't hard for the leadership to continue to back him in (with that 2016 exception). Of course it was complicated by elimination finals losses - seems like a long time ago now.

Again in hindsight but some of the vitriol hurled at Dimma seems ridiculous now.
 
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seven

Super Tiger
Apr 20, 2004
20,319
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Funny enough he could of wrote that article about essendrugs and he would have been closer to the mark.
 

aoc1974

Tiger Superstar
Mar 1, 2015
1,267
1,524
To be fair to Sheedy, this was 2010. He was right not to expect success in the next five years, and right to say it would take a cultural change and for a few of those players to blossom. He did nominate Rance as one who would hopefully improve, and he did.

Comparing Melbourne and Richmond - well, we got a beauty in Dimma, and great leadership from Benny and Peggy. That's significant. Melbourne churned through coaches, tanked, cheated, showed flashes but didn't address the real problems. They always chose the quick fix, easy path until Roos started. That's still an experiment without a result given their current state.

Dimma showed clear improvement every year (maybe one or two plateaus), and only one really poor year where we went backwards. So it wasn't hard for the leadership to continue to back him in (with that 2016 exception). Of course it was complicated by elimination finals losses - seems like a long time ago now.

Again in hindsight but some of the vitriol hurled at Dimma seems ridiculous now.
Still think it's an opinion piece written by a bloke who was told not to even bother chucking his hat into the ring at Richmond and when he did so at Melbourne. ..... they chucked it straight back at him!

For all of Kevin's...... "He's done so much for the game" moments. ... he ain't actually doing it out of the goodness of his heart!
Apparently on circa 300k at the bombers + whatever he's invoicing the AFL in his various ambassadorial roles, crisscrossing the country and kicking back in 1A.

Yeah, Sheeds has been good for the game..... but the game has been bloody great to him!
 
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