Indigenous Voice Yes or No? | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Indigenous Voice Yes or No?

How will you vote in referendum?

  • Yes

    Votes: 88 54.0%
  • No

    Votes: 30 18.4%
  • Probably yes

    Votes: 16 9.8%
  • Probably no

    Votes: 15 9.2%
  • Dont know

    Votes: 14 8.6%

  • Total voters
    163
  • Poll closed .

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,521
26,040
* mods, please allow me to gather 100 votes on the footy board before moving. Id like to test a theory and will get a more representative sample here. If it gets ugly by all means move or delete, but 100 PRE'ers havnt got anything wrong ever.

Lets assume the referendum in August asks;

'Do agree indigenous australians should be recognised in our constitution and given a voice to parliament?'

Id appreciate a simple poll response here, feel free to make your vote public if you want, but please use the politics thread in the politics board for discussion?

If we get 100 votes, ill share the hypothesis im testing.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,521
26,040
Thanks in advance to those who vote and respect the peaceful intent of the thread, and forgive me for intruding on the footy board

In the interest of transparency, i have lodged my hypothesis with a PRE'er whose integrity is beyond reproach.

100 votes and ill share my analysis FWIW
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,521
26,040
Clever way to ask if anyone is a racist Ezy.

I can assure prospective voters that that is not my hypothesis,

Nor do i want this thread to devolve into just another polarising, alienating, cyclic :vomit

Im after data, and i have faith in my PRE family to provide
 

FitenFitenWin

Listen to the thunder RFC
Jul 30, 2009
3,244
1,456
Brisbane
Absolutely. Followed by a raft of treaties at all levels of representation. Followed by a new flag - or maybe even none.
 
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Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,211
4,747
Melbourne
I would actually go further and make a leading aboriginal elder head of state of an Australian Republic.
 
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The_General

It's been a very hard working from home
Staff member
May 4, 2004
11,043
7,321
No.

And it's not because I don't think Indigenous Australian's are well looked after or are well represented.
Australia's history towards our Indigenous population has been at the very politest, sub-standard. At
worst, the swear filter would remove 96% of how I would describe it. And smile smile smile smile smile
isn't going to help anything.

What I don't like, is entrenching racial barriers. Creating a special group for a special part of society only
reinforces "us" and "them" behaviour. And if it's entrenched in the constitution, it'll never be wound back.
That's basically saying, we are happy with segregating a group of society and drawing lines between us.
I don't think that's a good outcome for anyone, and I don't think it will bring us together as a nation, nor
do I think we can forecast the consequences of this 100 years or so into the future.

It's a personal thing, but I feel we as a society always put people in baskets. If someone looks different, has
an accent, there's a tendency to say "what nationality are you?" or "Where are you from/born?"
I've heard the answer Australia and it followed up with, "oh no, I mean, where are you really from/parents from?"
Australia is a multi-cultural society. It has a horrible history (not just with indigenous peoples - the white Australia
policy was horrendously bad). If we don't start trying to accept everyone is Australian and important, we'll
only create more division.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,797
11,968
I voted yes in this poll and assume I will vote yet in the referendum but it is interesting to hear the views of some no voters from the AATIS communities. Some are people who's opinion, while I respect I often disagree with, such as Jacinta Price, others are more militant "self determinators" who won't be satisfied until there is treaty, and probably an actual vote in parliament for an Indigenous body, such as the Greens senator Lidia Thorpe, then there a range of others with various reasons.
I don't like the referendums chances of success if it doesn't have near full support from Indigenous people.
 
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momentai

Tiger Legend
Jul 24, 2004
6,328
2,959
Melb
I expect to vote yes in the referendum and would vote yes to your hypothetical.

I share concerns however with those who say we haven’t been told enough.
As I see it the Federal Govt is wrong to seek to change our Constitution without having enough confidence to ask a direct question, and an expectation that our community will come up with the right answer!

For a very long time I have lived with racism and bigotry, both in this country as well as in three others.
If I was given the opportunity to draft a question, as a basis for pressing ahead with a fair and truthful attempt to meet both racism and bigotry, it would be this:

Do you agree that we should recognise by constitutional amendment the founding men and women of our country by adopting the flag of our indigenous community as the flag of all, that is of those from all nations and societies who have come here and contributed to our progress.
Do we understand that the contribution of
many has bought us to this point and that by honouring our First Nations men and women in this manner, that we are also recognising and honouring all that we as Australians have been able to join together to achieve?
 
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tigertime2

Our cup runneth over!
Mar 22, 2008
4,572
1,759
No.

And it's not because I don't think Indigenous Australian's are well looked after or are well represented.
Australia's history towards our Indigenous population has been at the very politest, sub-standard. At
worst, the swear filter would remove 96% of how I would describe it. And smile smile smile smile smile
isn't going to help anything.

What I don't like, is entrenching racial barriers. Creating a special group for a special part of society only
reinforces "us" and "them" behaviour. And if it's entrenched in the constitution, it'll never be wound back.
That's basically saying, we are happy with segregating a group of society and drawing lines between us.
I don't think that's a good outcome for anyone, and I don't think it will bring us together as a nation, nor
do I think we can forecast the consequences of this 100 years or so into the future.

It's a personal thing, but I feel we as a society always put people in baskets. If someone looks different, has
an accent, there's a tendency to say "what nationality are you?" or "Where are you from/born?"
I've heard the answer Australia and it followed up with, "oh no, I mean, where are you really from/parents from?"
Australia is a multi-cultural society. It has a horrible history (not just with indigenous peoples - the white Australia
policy was horrendously bad). If we don't start trying to accept everyone is Australian and important, we'll
only create more division.
100% this is a terrible idea.

Common Law and the constitution enshrine rights for all citizens based on personal responsibilities. If you are a responsible citizen, then you have rights that cannot be taken away. The right to own property is one. I remember talking to Cedric Jacobs a great Indigenous footballer from WA and later on a Church Pastor. He wrote a book called Healing a divided Nation. His view was everyone is equal. If you want to own property go to work and earn it.

We should be strengthening the rights of ALL citizens regardless of Race, Colour or Creed to come to Australia and enjoy the greatest country on Earth....the British played an incalculable role in creating Modern Australia, the railways, the Hospitals, The Roads, the infrastructure, we truly are the greatest Nation on the planet. I agree not everything that happened 200 years ago may have been just and fair....however you dont take away from our freedoms today by creating divisions in our modern society. Enshrining Racism in the Australian constitution is not well thought out and is not the way to help the indigenous people or communities.

Healing a Divided Nation should be the goal...not creating Division. Please think about this. rather than joining a cheer squad feeling justified that you are helping by voting Yes. Why do we need to change something that is not broken?
 
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spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,237
27,364
Melbourne
I would actually go further and make a leading aboriginal elder head of state of an Australian Republic.
I don't want a head of state at all. We don't need one. As that drunken CIA stooge Kerr showed, it's too much power to put into the hands of one political appointment.

A Council of Elders. That's what we should have, with a spread of representation including Blackfella, Whitefella, Men, Women, Other, Young, Old, Middle-aged.
 
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casper68

Tiger Champion
Oct 20, 2004
2,615
582
dromana
I wouldn't sign a contract without reading or having an expert read the fine print, l will vote no.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,521
26,040
50 votes halfway there in short time

Thanks for voting and being civil

50 more
 
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St Kevin

Tiger Legend
Apr 1, 2014
7,211
6,222
No.

And it's not because I don't think Indigenous Australian's are well looked after or are well represented.
Australia's history towards our Indigenous population has been at the very politest, sub-standard. At
worst, the swear filter would remove 96% of how I would describe it. And smile smile smile smile smile
isn't going to help anything.

What I don't like, is entrenching racial barriers. Creating a special group for a special part of society only
reinforces "us" and "them" behaviour. And if it's entrenched in the constitution, it'll never be wound back.
That's basically saying, we are happy with segregating a group of society and drawing lines between us.
I don't think that's a good outcome for anyone, and I don't think it will bring us together as a nation, nor
do I think we can forecast the consequences of this 100 years or so into the future.

It's a personal thing, but I feel we as a society always put people in baskets. If someone looks different, has
an accent, there's a tendency to say "what nationality are you?" or "Where are you from/born?"
I've heard the answer Australia and it followed up with, "oh no, I mean, where are you really from/parents from?"
Australia is a multi-cultural society. It has a horrible history (not just with indigenous peoples - the white Australia
policy was horrendously bad). If we don't start trying to accept everyone is Australian and important, we'll
only create more division.

Beautifully put.
 

IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
18,113
3,350
Melbourne
Yes from me, as far as I'm concerned the media and the ALP to a certain extent has allowed the debate to be hijacked.
 

year of the tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 26, 2008
9,504
6,669
Tasmania
Well, the poll that Pat Anderson (Uluṟu Co-Chair) spoke of into todays Age that they ran across indigenous people prior to yesterday was tracking 80% yes and only 10% no. Her view that the few no vocal speakers (Dutton and Lidia Thorpe etc) mostly likely sat in the 10% but were given a disproportionate amount of air time - similar numbers to 50 Pre Enders votes in this poll so far.

Then you have supporters like Waleed Aly saying in todays Age ” Little wonder we’ve seen polling in this masthead this week putting the Voice in a losing position” yet when you look at that story which is linked has the yes vote at 60% - as would be asked in a referendum - crikey thats a losing position? How misleading.

My guess is that this referendum will be much like the marriage equality vote - all the media pushing the Murdock view of no, which ended up being so out of touch with what people actually think. Last years Fed election a bit like the same.
 
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spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,237
27,364
Melbourne
100% this is a terrible idea.

Common Law and the constitution enshrine rights for all citizens based on personal responsibilities. If you are a responsible citizen, then you have rights that cannot be taken away. The right to own property is one. I remember talking to Cedric Jacobs a great Indigenous footballer from WA and later on a Church Pastor. He wrote a book called Healing a divided Nation. His view was everyone is equal. If you want to own property go to work and earn it.

We should be strengthening the rights of ALL citizens regardless of Race, Colour or Creed to come to Australia and enjoy the greatest country on Earth....the British played an incalculable role in creating Modern Australia, the railways, the Hospitals, The Roads, the infrastructure, we truly are the greatest Nation on the planet. I agree not everything that happened 200 years ago may have been just and fair....however you dont take away from our freedoms today by creating divisions in our modern society. Enshrining Racism in the Australian constitution is not well thought out and is not the way to help the indigenous people or communities.

Healing a Divided Nation should be the goal...not creating Division. Please think about this. rather than joining a cheer squad feeling justified that you are helping by voting Yes. Why do we need to change something that is not broken?
Common Law should recognise that Blackfellas owned the entire bloody continent for 65,000 years. When did they sell it? Alternatively, where's the Treaty they signed transferring possession to the Crown? Talk about 'payments' to blackfellas - what do you reckon the country would be worth if you divvied it up into quarter-acre plots and paid market rates to the original owners? $485 trillion?

I spent a couple of hours yesterday at Main Beach, Byron Bay - maybe behind only Bondi in terms of iconic Australian beaches. If you could bottle that sensory experience, the combination of perfect weather, glorious, blue-green water, friendly waves, soft white sand, kids, families, babes, you could trigger a spiritual orgasm up the Kundalini of anyone you fancied - but fair dinkum the place would quickly be overrun and ruined. As I floated there meditating on how *smile* lucky I am to be able to access this whenever I want, the thoughts bobbed up and down in my brain like Commetti's Cork.

I found myself thinking of the quote from First Dog On The Moon, the Melbourne cartoonist who moved to rural Tasmania and likes to say, "It's terrible here, don't come," and thinking that's how we kind of feel as Australians. Come, sure. But also maybe don't. Cos it's ours and we love it and the longer it's too far from everything else for you to make the effort the better. Yeah, come, spend your pounds and your euros, then if we want ya we know where to find ya. Bon voyage, thank you, come again in another eight years.

Then another quote kept ringing in my mind's ear: “We did not land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us.” Malcolm X said it, speaking of the African-American experience. It was beating me about the cerebrum on this particular day because every Australian either came to Australia from somewhere else themselves, or their ancestors did. Except blackfellas. They never came to Australia, Australia came to them. Was imposed on them. Without a say in the matter. There was no Australia until 250-odd years ago. And every year we rub our home invasion in their faces. African gangs? Jesus H., they got nuthin' on Colonialism.

So, while I understand @The_General 's point about all being equal and not treating anyone differently, the fact is we have always treated blackfellas differently. And they've always been different. They are the only group of people in this country who had it stolen from them. (It's inarguable that we stole it from them. No you and me as individuals, it happened before our grandparents were born, but "we" did.) (aside: the White Australia policy was racist, but Chinese people have been here since the 1840s and they were always counted in the census.)

Constitutional Recognition and the Voice to Parliament will not be some power-sharing structure, although no doubt that's what the Murdoch media will try to whip up a frenzy about. It is acknowledgement that yes, Australia is this great country that "We" have built over the past two-and-a-half centuries. But it's a house we built on someone else's property. We just said it was ours now and if they kicked up a stink about it we killed them or herded them into camps, or took away the children we'd raped into them.

It's a healing measure, a handshake, a hug, and it can have so many positives, for all of us. It's beyond time we listened to the wisdom of the thousands of generations who had the joint looking like curated gardens before Artie Phil and co. set up camp and released rabbits, carp and the rest. "We" have proved we don't know how to manage the joint. We've nearly kiiled off the koala, for *smile* 's sake - and we like them! We've dried the rivers, eroded the soil, poisoned the earth. We have *smile* it up immensely. We need help.

We're approaching the anniversary of the Lismore floods, an event that devastated so many up here (rain-induced PTSD is real) - blackfellas told us 200 years ago that the damn joint was an occasional lake! They knew that if you didn't use fire to shape the landscape it'd burn everything at some point. We have dozens of millennia of land and water management practices honed specifically for this continent to draw on.

Australia has always had this cultural cringe of feeling we have little history or culture, yet we had this incredibly old, rich, culture, history and knowledge just waiting for us to take an interest. Aboriginal History is Australian History. There's just Before, and After. Now it's time for Whole.

This is a great country. We invented the stump-jump plough, the bionic ear, the black box and the goon bag. We gave the world Nellie Melba, Barrie Humphries and Shane Warne. But just because it's the best bloody country in the world it doesn't mean there's not room for improvement. And sure, it's quintessentially Australian to say, "Mate, just get over it, move on, stop ya whinging", that macho attitude has caused us untold grief, from drinking ourselves to oblivion, beating each other up, necking ourselves, etc. etc.

Too often we get in our own way, shoot ourselves in the *smile* and trip over our own entitlement. Get this right and there will no bloody stopping us. Carn.
 
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spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,237
27,364
Melbourne
Well, the poll that Pat Anderson (Uluṟu Co-Chair) spoke of into todays Age that they ran across indigenous people prior to yesterday was tracking 80% yes and only 10% no. Her view that the few no vocal speakers (Dutton and Lidia Thorpe etc) mostly likely sat in the 10% but were given a disproportionate amount of air time - similar numbers to 50 Pre Enders votes in this poll so far.

Then you have supporters like Waleed Aly saying in todays Age ” Little wonder we’ve seen polling in this masthead this week putting the Voice in a losing position” yet when you look at that story which is linked has the yes vote at 60% - as would be asked in a referendum - crikey thats a losing position? How misleading.

My guess is that this referendum will be much like the marriage equality vote - all the media pushing the Murdock view of no, which ended up being so out of touch with what people actually think. Last years Fed election a bit like the same.
Waleed Aly is a tool of Status Quo oppression, and The Whitest Man In Australia.
 
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