Is it the players or the coach? | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Is it the players or the coach?

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this one was 100% players fault.

Wrong footwear (good grief!)
Trying to play fast hands/slick handball/run around the opposition game in slippery conditions - didnt adapt at all
Let a 3 goal intial burst from Sydney suddenly turn into 6 goals by not tighening up in the remainder of the Qtr
Richo missing a sitter at the end of the first Qtr that would have at least pulled one back and let them get on the scoreboard ready for Q2 with the wind.

None of these could be controlled by Wallace; it was a mess of the players own making

As coach, Wallace might have tried to turn things around at Qtr time, but frankly, Sydney already had our measure and our weak-minded players couldnt fire a single shot in response. That was the most dissappointing thing.

Got up at 4am here to watch it live. Turned off 5minutes into the 2nd Qtr. Disgusted.
 
AstroboyUK said:
this one was 100% players fault.

Wrong footwear (good grief!)
Trying to play fast hands/slick handball/run around the opposition game in slippery conditions - didnt adapt at all
Let a 3 goal intial burst from Sydney suddenly turn into 6 goals by not tighening up in the remainder of the Qtr
Richo missing a sitter at the end of the first Qtr that would have at least pulled one back and let them get on the scoreboard ready for Q2 with the wind.

None of these could be controlled by Wallace; it was a mess of the players own making

As coach, Wallace might have tried to turn things around at Qtr time, but frankly, Sydney already had our measure and our weak-minded players couldnt fire a single shot in response. That was the most dissappointing thing.

Got up at 4am here to watch it live. Turned off 5minutes into the 2nd Qtr. Disgusted.
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Agree AUK. Just watched the first quarter again (God knows why?) and the execution of skills and the numerous soft free kicks killed us. Even Hyde had a fair bit of the ball in the first 10-15 mins, just stuffed it up. They coudn't hit targets, bobbled marks. Shocking effort by virtually all the lads.

Hopefully just a blip and the club gets back to the "shut up" policy (with TW turning them over) of trying to play football rather than talking about it.
 
pturls said:
the other indictment on Wallace is allowing players to choose their own footware - young blokes, and stupid blokes, need to be told - GET the long STOPS out boys, you can always go back the other way if it's dry
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And yet it seems to be a common approach amongst other clubs to let the players choose their stops as well.
 
AstroboyUK said:
this one was 100% players fault.
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Not when Hyde was on Goodes for the whole game. Not when we had only one 1 full time key forward on a ground that demands 2-3.
 
alot on wallace, i think he needs to go

we need to do what the hawks have does, out peffier,tuck,bowden, johnson ,simmons tivendale, hyde, shultz

trade if we can get anythink for them,


play polo ,collins ,JON, rance, putt, cartledge, hughes, jackson, angus see what these kid have to offer till the end of the season
 
I wont call for his head after a bad loss, but if we do have another bad loss in the next couple weeks I do think that we can start to feel uneasy.

I talked about it last week and I think I was too negative, I said a bad game against the bombers would shove all the honourable losses to the side. The game against Sydney definitely did. A win against the crows may be able to shove that all to the side too, its a week by week dilema. But I do think we are at the cross-roads, we havent turned any corner yet.

If a team isnt performing after 4 years of your control then you are to blame, Wallace has had enough time and enough support. He has a bag of excuses but he isnt the type of person that will put his hand up and accept failure. Next year its year 5, we need consistant wins!
 
In isolation of one game, it's mostly the players fault, although the Hyde on Goodes mismatch was pretty stupid. But most of his team mates were getting smashed too. I genuinely think those in the coaches box were as incredulous as us. Reading the paper suggests they got one almighty spray at half time with Wallace's jugualar vein at or past bursting point (eww!)

HOWEVER - big picture is the coach and selection committee. Sure Wallace had a massive job when he came in. but the complete re-build should have started at day one. I think Wallace has done some good things at the club, but this has been his main failing - thinking he could get something out of the then current senior players and that they somehow deserved success for some reason. I would feel a lot differently about this loss if the same old failures weren't still there.

I suppose I could have saved a lot of time and just written "Both"
 
Like a number of former coaches, Wallace seems to have been seduced by the notion that he could get more out of the existing list in 2005, when we all knew it was average. However if Brown had not gone down with a broken leg, who knows we may have made the finals. We'll never know.

That said, the clean-out should have started on day one as the list was never going to win a flag. Hence we're now three years behind where we should be, particularly given that our recruiting record is very poor. I pray that Craig Cameron can do a better job than all before him, because this is where a proper rebuild starts and where we have been continually let down. The draft of 2005, Delidio and Tambling aside now seems to have been a real waste.

Assuming that we'll have a young list for the next few years, I really don't think Wallace is the man for the job. You can't coach for 4-5 years and not achieve a finals performance. No amount of spin can hide the facts. Hardwick, Collins or any other coach with a track record of developing younger players should be looked at as a replacement. Wallace's hype (and I was a believer in the beginning as well) has not been matched by performance and results.

Depending on how the remainder of 2008 turns out, I'd be inclined to replace Wallace at the end of the year. However the financial reality is that this probably won't happen.
 
It has to be both, you can't have one without the other.

Players can't coach from the field and the Coach can't play.

However, after saying that in this instance it is favouring the coach more, only because when you have a younger team you need good development and people management skills. the young kids can be taken down the wrong path and become chronic losers or be infected by other serial losers, with bad game plans, match ups and playing alongside duds so..

this award goes to Wallet and Co

Fire up Wallet ;D
 
Sydney play that ground so well, they lock down our run and carry and put us under intense pressure which forced us to miss targets by feet causing turnover after turnover. On top of that they have way more strong bodies around the ball and a dominant ruck duo winning most of the hit outs to advantage.
A few areas that they just abused us in for me were:
>Hyde on Goodes- the roll of a tagger is not to run around 5 metres behind the guy you are tagging, Polo has to be a better option for mine.
>Lack of forward pressure, Sydney were able to crowd our forward line and run it out in waves because we moved the ball slowly and were forced out wide. On the other hand they moved it quicky through the guts and allowed their forward plenty of one on ones. They seemed to run hard both ways, we only ran forward.
>Rucks, obviously we were dominated in the hit-outs and the clearance

I am not getting too carried away, these types of blow-outs will happen when you have plenty of young kids on the park, we have been up for a few weeks and the weekend was flat. Terry will work out a way to turn it around for this week versus Adelaide
 
Of course if you listen to some people the coach is doing exactly the right thing, because he's 'tanking' for all he's worth. Get real! We're not tanking! We're that bloody bad!
 
TigerForce said:
2009 is going to be a waste with Wallace still there.
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That's exactly right. Our poor performance can't all be blamed on Wallace, as it is a shared responsibility. Most of the players were disgraceful yesterday, but they're the players that Wallace selected.
 
We cant keep blamimg the hacks/duds that keep getting selected to play by Walla$e and whoever else is on the matchless committee.
These hacks/duds have limitations and we always seem to go back to them as Walla$e is trying to get a win to save his ass.
Walla$e is coaching for his own survival not for the survival of our footy club.
 
It's clearly both,and u can add the board to the pile of woe.On the field,besides Cothcin, none of the kids appear to be long term proposistions
 
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