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Is PC a euphemism for 'nice?'

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
29,387
7,312
Melbourne
You can be sure that when people refer to the "Marxist Plague" everything is the harbinger of the collapse of western civilization.

A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

Our cultural institutions are facing a moment of trial. Powerful protests for racial and social justice are leading to overdue demands for police reform, along with wider calls for greater equality and inclusion across our society, not least in higher education, journalism, philanthropy, and the arts. But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity. As we applaud the first development, we also raise our voices against the second. The forces of illiberalism are gaining strength throughout the world and have a powerful ally in Donald Trump, who represents a real threat to democracy. But resistance must not be allowed to harden into its own brand of dogma or coercion—which right-wing demagogues are already exploiting. The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.

The free exchange of information and ideas, the lifeblood of a liberal society, is daily becoming more constricted. While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty. We uphold the value of robust and even caustic counter-speech from all quarters. But it is now all too common to hear calls for swift and severe retribution in response to perceived transgressions of speech and thought. More troubling still, institutional leaders, in a spirit of panicked damage control, are delivering hasty and disproportionate punishments instead of considered reforms. Editors are fired for running controversial pieces; books are withdrawn for alleged inauthenticity; journalists are barred from writing on certain topics; professors are investigated for quoting works of literature in class; a researcher is fired for circulating a peer-reviewed academic study; and the heads of organizations are ousted for what are sometimes just clumsy mistakes. Whatever the arguments around each particular incident, the result has been to steadily narrow the boundaries of what can be said without the threat of reprisal. We are already paying the price in greater risk aversion among writers, artists, and journalists who fear for their livelihoods if they depart from the consensus, or even lack sufficient zeal in agreement.

This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time. The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation. The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away. We refuse any false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other. As writers we need a culture that leaves us room for experimentation, risk taking, and even mistakes. We need to preserve the possibility of good-faith disagreement without dire professional consequences. If we won’t defend the very thing on which our work depends, we shouldn’t expect the public or the state to defend it for us.

Elliot Ackerman
Saladin Ambar
, Rutgers University
Martin Amis
Anne Applebaum
Marie Arana
, author
Margaret Atwood
John Banville
Mia Bay
, historian
Louis Begley, writer
Roger Berkowitz, Bard College
Paul Berman, writer
Sheri Berman, Barnard College
Reginald Dwayne Betts, poet
Neil Blair, agent
David W. Blight, Yale University
Jennifer Finney Boylan, author
David Bromwich
David Brooks
, columnist
Ian Buruma, Bard College
Lea Carpenter
Noam Chomsky
, MIT (emeritus)
Nicholas A. Christakis, Yale University
Roger Cohen, writer
Ambassador Frances D. Cook, ret.
Drucilla Cornell, Founder, uBuntu Project
Kamel Daoud
Meghan Daum
, writer
Gerald Early, Washington University-St. Louis
Jeffrey Eugenides, writer
Dexter Filkins
Federico Finchelstein
, The New School
Caitlin Flanagan
Richard T. Ford
, Stanford Law School
Kmele Foster
David Frum
, journalist
Francis Fukuyama, Stanford University
Atul Gawande, Harvard University
Todd Gitlin, Columbia University
Kim Ghattas
Malcolm Gladwell
Michelle Goldberg
, columnist
Rebecca Goldstein, writer
Anthony Grafton, Princeton University
David Greenberg, Rutgers University
Linda Greenhouse
Rinne B. Groff
, playwright
Sarah Haider, activist
Jonathan Haidt, NYU-Stern
Roya Hakakian, writer
Shadi Hamid, Brookings Institution
Jeet Heer, The Nation
Katie Herzog, podcast host
Susannah Heschel, Dartmouth College
Adam Hochschild, author
Arlie Russell Hochschild, author
Eva Hoffman, writer
Coleman Hughes, writer/Manhattan Institute
Hussein Ibish, Arab Gulf States Institute
Michael Ignatieff
Zaid Jilani
, journalist
Bill T. Jones, New York Live Arts
Wendy Kaminer, writer
Matthew Karp, Princeton University
Garry Kasparov, Renew Democracy Initiative
Daniel Kehlmann, writer
Randall Kennedy
Khaled Khalifa
, writer
Parag Khanna, author
Laura Kipnis, Northwestern University
Frances Kissling, Center for Health, Ethics, Social Policy
Enrique Krauze, historian
Anthony Kronman, Yale University
Joy Ladin, Yeshiva University
Nicholas Lemann, Columbia University
Mark Lilla, Columbia University
Susie Linfield, New York University
Damon Linker, writer
Dahlia Lithwick, Slate
Steven Lukes, New York University
John R. MacArthur, publisher, writer
Susan Madrak, writer
Phoebe Maltz Bovy
, writer
Greil Marcus
Wynton Marsalis
, Jazz at Lincoln Center
Kati Marton, author
Debra Mashek, scholar
Deirdre McCloskey, University of Illinois at Chicago
John McWhorter, Columbia University
Uday Mehta, City University of New York
Andrew Moravcsik, Princeton University
Yascha Mounk, Persuasion
Samuel Moyn, Yale University
Meera Nanda, writer and teacher
Cary Nelson, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Olivia Nuzzi, New York Magazine
Mark Oppenheimer, Yale University
Dael Orlandersmith, writer/performer
George Packer
Nell Irvin Painter
, Princeton University (emerita)
Greg Pardlo, Rutgers University – Camden
Orlando Patterson, Harvard University
Steven Pinker, Harvard University
Letty Cottin Pogrebin
Katha Pollitt
, writer
Claire Bond Potter, The New School
Taufiq Rahim
Zia Haider Rahman
, writer
Jennifer Ratner-Rosenhagen, University of Wisconsin
Jonathan Rauch, Brookings Institution/The Atlantic
Neil Roberts, political theorist
Melvin Rogers, Brown University
Kat Rosenfield, writer
Loretta J. Ross, Smith College
J.K. Rowling
Salman Rushdie
, New York University
Karim Sadjadpour, Carnegie Endowment
Daryl Michael Scott, Howard University
Diana Senechal, teacher and writer
Jennifer Senior, columnist
Judith Shulevitz, writer
Jesse Singal, journalist
Anne-Marie Slaughter
Andrew Solomon
, writer
Deborah Solomon, critic and biographer
Allison Stanger, Middlebury College
Paul Starr, American Prospect/Princeton University
Wendell Steavenson, writer
Gloria Steinem, writer and activist
Nadine Strossen, New York Law School
Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., Harvard Law School
Kian Tajbakhsh, Columbia University
Zephyr Teachout, Fordham University
Cynthia Tucker, University of South Alabama
Adaner Usmani, Harvard University
Chloe Valdary
Helen Vendler
, Harvard University
Judy B. Walzer
Michael Walzer
Eric K. Washington
, historian
Caroline Weber, historian
Randi Weingarten, American Federation of Teachers
Bari Weiss
Sean Wilentz
, Princeton University
Garry Wills
Thomas Chatterton Williams
, writer
Robert F. Worth, journalist and author
Molly Worthen, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Matthew Yglesias
Emily Yoffe
, journalist
Cathy Young, journalist
Fareed Zakaria

https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

When the lefties are arcing up, you know that something's rotten in the state of Denmark.
 
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glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,123
84
'When the lefties are arcing up, you know that something's rotten in the state of Denmark.'

HAHAHAHA!!!! That's such a funny thing to post. This list is full of some of the most awesome thinkers on this planet including conservatives!!! And because they are so smart they are not necessarily chained to the dull thinking demanded by political dogma of the left or right, although Chomsky might be the obvious knuckle dragger in that department.

For example, David Frum - journalist, life long republican, former speech writer for president Bush for god sake, editor for The Atlantic and Anne Applebaum - Pulitzer prize winner – life long republican, writer for The Atlantic are 2 of the best if you want to know how from a republican pov Trump has destroyed republican party values and advanced the cause of anti democratic authoritarianism like that exercised by Putin, Erdogan and Duterte.

Caitlin Flanagan – write, conservative democrat – The Atlantic, hated by the new feminist left ; Sarah Haider – ex muslim activist, considered a traitor by regressive left; Coleman Hughes – black American, student, thinker who deconstructs left wing dogma on race in the US ; John McWhorter - same, black American, thinker are some of my favourites sources of info who are hated by the left because they do not follow political standard operating procedures....hahahaha

Great list. Thank you so much. So many new names to explore.
 

glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,123
84
Great article by the way. Could not agree more strongly with it. Very well written and never a truer word spoken, .... unfortunately.
 

glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,123
84
Speaking of David Frum here's an excellent debate between him and Steve Bannon.
Ironically the winner of the debate was incorrectly announced due to human error and later corrected.

 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
29,387
7,312
Melbourne
This list is full of some of the most awesome thinkers on this planet including conservatives!!!
Great article by the way. Could not agree more strongly with it. Very well written and never a truer word spoken, .... unfortunately.
Jennifer Boylan signed the letter, then had her name withdrawn.

Also...
Historian Kerri Greenidge went a step further, tweeting: “I do not endorse this @Harpers letter. I am in contact with Harper’s about a retraction.” A spokeswoman for Harper’s told the New York Times that the magazine fact-checked the signatures and that Greenidge had signed off. But the spokeswoman said Harper’s is “respectfully removing her name.”

So you agree, then, that there is a serious problem with writers being forced to conform to teamthink by the left?

Do you think, perhaps, such pressures could have spilled over into other fields? Say, climate science?
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Champion
Dec 11, 2017
4,182
4,728
Melbourne
Do you think, perhaps, such pressures could have spilled over into other fields? Say, climate science?

Uh oh indeed.

Continual rebuttal of rubbish science doesn't convince some people because it doesn't fit their ideology.

But, to quote one line of the letter:

We uphold the value of robust and even caustic counter-speech from all quarters

Bloody oath, and who do you think has a problem when robust debate refutes their arguments? Who runs around complaining when they get a robust reply to their ill-considered posts? Who gets all twisted and wets their pants when the hypocrisy of believing only the science that suits their agenda is pointed out?

I'm all for robust debate, bring it on.

But don't complain when it comes right back at you.

DS
 

glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,123
84
Jennifer Boylan signed the letter, then had her name withdrawn.

Also...


So you agree, then, that there is a serious problem with writers being forced to conform to teamthink by the left?

Don't know Jennifer but she needs to grow some.

And yeah, ...writers, journalists, teachers, uni professors, academics, political & social commentators, tv personalities, sports clubs, human resource departments, etc etc have over the last 25 years or so allowed their critical thinking facilities to be bit by bit unplugged like Hal in Space Odyssey 2001 to the point that a now a woman in a burqa is deemed as liberated not opressed, denying some women basic human rights is culturally relative no longer discrimination, an unarmed white guy (tony timpa - see youtube - truly vile) killed by police in exactly the same fashion as George Floyd is not protest worthy because he is white not black, a transgender (man to woman) is deemed more appropriate to head a women's rape centre than a biological woman, saying the 'n' word when training staff on why some words are offensive and should not be used is career ending, a muslim suicide bomber is an extremist (especially before elections) rather than a terrorist because he/she is a muslim, identity is more important than issue, identity is more important than any other reality, etc etc... Oppressive, identity obsessed and illiberal to the point of tyrannical.

And to see this narcissistic wave over power classic ALP and liberal values is awful.


[/QUOTE]
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
1,635
961
When i got reborned in a cyber sense, I swore I'd never even look at the RRP board.

Oh well.

It occurred to me that being PC, is generally just being a nice person and that taking an anti PC stance is generally condoning being nasty.

To take it a step further, its not hard to mount a case that those who publicly ridicule PC, take Jeff Kennett's latest McGuire et al defence as an example, have a nasty streak.

To take it a further step, the oft made link between PC and the death of humour, is a polarising straw-woman isnt it?

discuss. without being nasty. (gulps) :theyareontome
 

glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,123
84
Do you think, perhaps, such pressures could have spilled over into other fields? Say, climate science?

Don't subscribe to the theory that scientists from all over the world including those from countries who are not subject to the tyranny of western political correctness and identity politics who have nothing in common other than they are moved by science, by data and not philosophy or politics would make up data that clearly shows climate change is real just for the yuks.
That's delusional in my book.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
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Great article by the way. Could not agree more strongly with it. Very well written and never a truer word spoken, .... unfortunately.
Yes and a diverse group of people signing it. Unfortunately there are some who despite this want to make such views part of some phoney war between phoney labels when it is nothing more than a call for reasoned debate.
intolerance of the views of others is not unique to one view of the world in my experience
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
29,387
7,312
Melbourne
Don't subscribe to the theory that scientists from all over the world including those from countries who are not subject to the tyranny of western political correctness and identity politics who have nothing in common other than they are moved by science, by data and not philosophy or politics would make up data that clearly shows climate change is real just for the yuks.
That's delusional in my book.

I'm not talking about individual researchers "making up data", but don't want to get into it in detail here.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Champion
Dec 11, 2017
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I'm not talking about individual researchers "making up data", but don't want to get into it in detail here.

You brought it into this thread, if you didn't want to talk about climate change here why introduce the topic?

While we're on about shutting down debate, the letter above stated:

But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity. As we applaud the first development, we also raise our voices against the second.

But, toleration of difference, is clearly not for some:

You don't get to dictate how you're addressed. That's my choice to make. And if you insist on "they", I won't be addressing you at all. You're too much hard work.

Yep, toleration of difference is clearly a bridge too far.

DS