It will be many years.......

[TOT70]

I would do the following:

send two teams interstate-preferably two 'support-challenged' clubs like the Kangas, Bullies or even Hawthorn if they want to go ( and it seems they do). Send them anywhere they want to go-Tassie, Gold Coast, West Sydney, Darwin who cares.

this leaves 8 teams in Melbourne and 8 team outside of Melb.

The 8 Melbourne teams play each other twice- the 8 interstate teams play each other twice. They can have a fest of Showdowns, Derbies, Northern Battles etc. We can have a fest of traditional clashes bw Richmond, Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton, StKilda etc. The fans will love it!

That covers 14 rounds. In the other 8 rounds, each Melb-based team plays the eight interstaters and each interstate team plays the 8 Melbourne teams.

Every Victorian team travels interstate 4 times and plays in Victoria 18 times, every interstate team gets 11 home games.

What could be fairer?

 

[jayfox]

Drawback

Is there enough Australian Rules Football top shelf talent in Australia to support 22 teams? There isn't enough now to support 16 teams!

Further Drawbacks -

This idea would cost so much money in travel expenses alone that many Div 2 clubs wouldn't survive.

The Essendons, Hawthorns and Carltons of Div 2 would absolutely smash the lower ranked Div 2 sides making for a very uneven, unattractive competition.

What happens with the Reserves/VFL teams?

 

[Baloo]

I would do the following:

send two teams interstate-preferably two 'support-challenged' clubs like the Kangas, Bullies or even Hawthorn if they want to go ( and it seems they do).  Send them anywhere they want to go-Tassie, Gold Coast, West Sydney, Darwin who cares.

this leaves 8 teams in Melbourne and 8 team outside of Melb.

The 8 Melbourne teams play each other twice- the 8 interstate teams play each other twice.  They can have a fest of Showdowns, Derbies, Northern Battles etc.  We can have a fest of traditional clashes bw Richmond, Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton, StKilda etc.  The fans will love it!

That covers 14 rounds.  In the other 8 rounds, each Melb-based team plays the eight interstaters and each interstate team plays the 8 Melbourne teams.

Every Victorian team travels interstate 4 times and plays in Victoria 18 times, every interstate team gets 11 home games.

What could be fairer?

Nice one. I'd love to see that sort of comp in place.

And as much as I hate our "Big 4" comrades, I would hate to see them leave Victoria. Victoria, and it's footy fans, need Richmond, Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton in Melbourne.

 

[pahoffm]

I would do the following:

send two teams interstate-preferably two 'support-challenged' clubs like the Kangas, Bullies or even Hawthorn if they want to go ( and it seems they do).  Send them anywhere they want to go-Tassie, Gold Coast, West Sydney, Darwin who cares.

this leaves 8 teams in Melbourne and 8 team outside of Melb.

The 8 Melbourne teams play each other twice- the 8 interstate teams play each other twice.  They can have a fest of Showdowns, Derbies, Northern Battles etc.  We can have a fest of traditional clashes bw Richmond, Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton, StKilda etc.  The fans will love it!

That covers 14 rounds.  In the other 8 rounds, each Melb-based team plays the eight interstaters and each interstate team plays the 8 Melbourne teams.

Every Victorian team travels interstate 4 times and plays in Victoria 18 times, every interstate team gets 11 home games.

What could be fairer?

Excellent effort TOT!
Sounds good to me.

A solution -

12 only AFL National League Teams - playing in division 1 - this will allow for each team to play each other twice. Finals played by the first 5 teams

10 Division 2 Teams playing in a national competition - an 18 week H & A season allowing each team to play each other twice. Finals played by the first 5 teams

Then have a relegation and promotion system for the 2 bottom teams of Div 1 and the Grand Finalists of Div 2 each year.

On current standings -

Division 1 Teams - Adelaide, Brisbane, Collingwood, Fremantle, Geelong, Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Richmond, St Kilda, Sydney Swans, West Coast, Western Bulldogs

Division 2 Teams - Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Gold Coast Kangaroos, 2nd Sydney Team, Canberra, Tasmania, Norwood, Claremont, Darwin

As a preason comp have a knock-out competition for all teams in both divisions with big prize money

The national draft - in fact all drafts can be done on a ballot basis.

Benefits

Vic clubs with the exception of the Kangaroos survive
Fair Draws in both Divisions
Homegrounds for Vic Clubs can be introduced again

Drawback

Is there enough Australian Rules Football top shelf talent in Australia to support 22 teams? There isn't enough now to support 16 teams!

Interesting idea.
But as you say, it may stretch the player resources too far.

 

[tigersnake]

I think a 2 division comp is inevitable, but it won't happen for 10 years min.  It will be the next big dynamic change2-3 Vic teams will relocate.  Pop growth will mean the 6 remaining Melb clubs will have enough support, and there will be a lot of pressure for an extra club in Bris, (in addition to North's move to the GC), 2 more in Perth, 1 more in Syd, 1-2 more in Adelaide etc, etc.

Might be Div 1 and 2 with relegations and promotions, or 2 conferences.  24 teams would be a good number.  Its easy to imagine 2 Melb clubs relocating right now (North is already happening) and an extra side in Perth and Adelaide, thats 18 sides off the bat.  The main characteristic of the league since the swans moved in 81 or 82 whenever, has been dynamic changes every few years, that will continue.

RT is right, at the moment the talent pool is too small, but if the AFL devt strategy is half successful, and with pop growth, another 8 sides is conceivable in 10-20 years

 

[Redford]

There'll never be a division 2/relegation system in AFL due to the simple fact it would create a diluted income stream from sponsorship sources, and thus send struggling clubs in that second division just further into the mire.

Remember folks, this country has a small population. Only 22m or whatever.

 

[tigersnake]

Fair call, I don't disagree. But now the uneveness of the draw attracts constant criticism and pondering. Perth's rate of growth, both pop and $ will mean they'll want at least 1, probably 2 more clubs. Adelaide will want 1 more etc.

The main diff we have to the soccer, strength in my opinion, is that as a game played in one country we can have salary caps and drafts. This MIGHT mean that teams that find themselves in div 2 always have the means to get back to div 1, unlike English soccer where the old firm clubs battle it out each year unless a passing Russian zillionaire takes a shine to a club.

It is a small market as you say, but it also has a watertight $ cap and draft. Maybe it will be 2 conferences? I do believe though that the pressure for 18, 20 24 clubs will happen. Might take 20 years, but it'll happen.

 

[Tigers of Old]

18 clubs, 17 weeks of H&A competition, each club plays every other club once, then a 5 week finals series. I like that.

That's what we need more clubs!
As if it isn't hard enough for the Tigers to win a premiership as it is.

 

[Redford]

Fair call, I don't disagree.  But now the uneveness of the draw attracts constant criticism and pondering.  Perth's rate of growth, both pop and $ will mean they'll want at least 1, probably 2 more clubs.  Adelaide will want 1 more etc.

The main diff we have to the soccer, strength in my opinion, is that as a game played in one country we can have salary caps and drafts.  This MIGHT mean that teams that find themselves in div 2 always have the means to get back to div 1, unlike English soccer where the old firm clubs battle it out each year unless a passing Russian zillionaire takes a shine to a club.

It is a small market as you say, but it also has a watertight $ cap and draft.  Maybe it will be 2 conferences?  I do believe though that the pressure for 18, 20 24 clubs will happen.  Might take 20 years, but it'll happen.

Yep Snakepants, they do probably have a bit of a power advantage at the moment, but I reckon at this point in time there’s little to suggest that either Perth or Adelaide teams will actually get any bigger a support base than they currently already have.

There’s almost a saturation point with footy over there in those states (as there is in Victoria) and if you look at ABS figures the populations of those cities are stagnating. If they do grow their fan base, it will only come by greater acceptance of the game as driven by the AFL which, because of the saturation factor, will be marginal. And in any case, you would expect that the same rate of penetration would be achieved in Victoria thus maintaining the status quo - generally.

Brisbane and Sydney are different. There is far more opportunity to tap into non-footy followers and for the market in these areas to grow significantly and for these clubs to get out of control as far as power bases are concerned. Thus, I could definitely see the day when there are two teams in both those cities/areas which leads me onto the following.

Over the next x years, it is more likely that the AFL will keep the same amount of teams in the one single competition, but re-locate a few Melbourne based clubs as the penetration of the game takes hold in the northern states. Within the next 10 years for example, I could see 2 Melbourne based teams re-located to Sydney and the Brisbane/Gold Coast area. Maybe in time another one could eventually be re-located to Tasmania, but given the poor economics of a team being based down there permanently, and the unlikeliness of this improving in the foreseeable future, that will still be light years off imo.

The aforementioned scenario strengthens and grows the game in the Northern states and further increases the earning potential for the league as a whole. The remaining Victorian clubs catch up and get stronger as a result of the diminished competition in their locales and the projected population growth within Victoria. The Adelaide and Perth clubs keep their base unchallenged.

All of this makes for an even more prosperous AFL in general. Importantly it ensures the viability of all clubs and ultimately, creates quite an even spread of power amongst all 16 clubs albeit the Tas, NT and ACT markets being ignored somewhat in the process.

I’m pretty sure this is what we’ll see over the next 10-15 years. The real questions I reckon the AFL has to find a strategies for is how to grow the game in the TAS, NT and ACT regions and.... believe it or not....how in time (possibly).....to stop the remaining VICTORIAN clubs from actually becoming too powerful !

 

[Tigerdog]

Top post Redders. Agree entirely. Awhile back I made a thread about the expansion of the VFL to include more teams. At the time though the AFL hadn't got the TV rights deals windfall that could be used to subsidise the idea.
I will try and find the post in the archive.

Ok here it is.. http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=6593.0
.fraction out of date but most of it still applies. Except perhaps now the other two sides could be Darwin and Southport Sharks/Western Sydney. Given that the AFL has a lot more money to subsidise with if it really does believe in the growth of the game. The rights could be sold to a free to air station or the ABC on the cheap and broadcast into their respective regional areas.

 

[Ian4]

That leaves us with a total of 18 clubs with the vic clubs reduced by 2.
The AFL has stated that 16 clubs is the Maxium of clubs in the competion clearly 2 others have to go and not relocate but actually fold.Cant see that happening.

while that will never happen, the afl have never officially ruled out expanding

Maybe in time another one could eventually be re-located to Tasmania, but given the poor economics of a team being based down there permanently, and the unlikeliness of this improving in the foreseeable future, that will still be light years off imo.

on the other hand, the afl have ruled this one out

some people may remember a thread i started about a month ago stating that victorian footy is in such dire straights, richmond may be the next victorian team to win a flag despite us still being 4-5 years away. the grim harsh reality of it is that there are way too many teams in melbourne and at least 2 have to go... sooner rather than later

quite frankly i'm more interested in watching melbourne victory than watching the interstate teams fight it out for the flag yet again.

 

[tigers#7]

I sort of take this as a good thing. I migth sound a little negative. but if my tigers aren't in the finals, i'd rather see an interstate team win the grand final. I guess it's just the victoria rivalry thing and if an interstate team does win it, we don't hear about it much.

 

[Ian4]

I sort of take this as a good thing. I migth sound a little negative. but if my tigers aren't in the finals, i'd rather see an interstate team win the grand final. I guess it's just the victoria rivalry thing and if an interstate team does win it, we don't hear about it much.

nah, can't stomach seeing tickertape parades in perth or adelaide.

 

[JR8]

I sort of take this as a good thing. I migth sound a little negative. but if my tigers aren't in the finals, i'd rather see an interstate team win the grand final. I guess it's just the victoria rivalry thing and if an interstate team does win it, we don't hear about it much.

I think much the same way. Couldn't agree more!!!