No wonder they call Fraser "Dog". Sneaking around trying to chew up Pagan from behind, and now he's run yapping to the papers to big note himself.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
It’s only Carlton, but hell – I’m confused!
- Thread starter Phar Ace
- Start date
TigerMasochist said:
How this guy has become a millionaire beats the crap outta me. Must have good "connections".
It's always good to see Carlton down, but maybe not this down as it affects crowds when we play them. Our crowds (and presumably gate takings) are down 22% against them in the last five years, compared with the previous five. Would prefer one of the I/S clubs to hit the skids.
General-to-Pretty-Boy-to-Disco, Once we start to show that we have turned the corner & start winning games more consistently, the crowds will rise even if that scum filth are on the bottom. All Richmond supporters will turn up to stick the boots in while we can. ;D
From my take on the Blues then need a new president pronto.
Greame Smorgon needs some lessons in spin doctoring. Some items you just have take your lumps but saying that the Carlton review went exactly as they would have liked is just treating your members like fools.
Also poor Barry Mitchel, I don't think he was behind the get rid of Pagan push but regardless he is seen as a brawling back roomer trying to get sneak into a coaching spot. Has the Bullants in great shape and is well liked by the playing group but I highly doubt he has a future at Carlton. Would be very happy to see him at Punt Rd. Massive opportunity.
Stephen Kernahan really has suffered under this too. Monday he was the leader of the new breed of Carlton saviours but by Thursday he had backflipped to be a Pagan person. Has zero credibility now in my eyes nad would be someone if I would not trust to look after my club.
I have no doubt that the AFL intervened and told the Blues board who would be coaching in 2007.
But the biggest thing out of all this that really gets to me is the fact that the AFL disposed of Fitzroy for running a similar ship to the Blues but appear happy to tolerate this mismanagement,
Greame Smorgon needs some lessons in spin doctoring. Some items you just have take your lumps but saying that the Carlton review went exactly as they would have liked is just treating your members like fools.
Also poor Barry Mitchel, I don't think he was behind the get rid of Pagan push but regardless he is seen as a brawling back roomer trying to get sneak into a coaching spot. Has the Bullants in great shape and is well liked by the playing group but I highly doubt he has a future at Carlton. Would be very happy to see him at Punt Rd. Massive opportunity.
Stephen Kernahan really has suffered under this too. Monday he was the leader of the new breed of Carlton saviours but by Thursday he had backflipped to be a Pagan person. Has zero credibility now in my eyes nad would be someone if I would not trust to look after my club.
I have no doubt that the AFL intervened and told the Blues board who would be coaching in 2007.
But the biggest thing out of all this that really gets to me is the fact that the AFL disposed of Fitzroy for running a similar ship to the Blues but appear happy to tolerate this mismanagement,
New Carlton is the old St Kilda. :cutelaughWhen in a few years time the AFL wake up and scrap rewarding the wooden spooner with the first pick of the draft, people will only remember (rightly) that the Blues finished on the bottom.
The worst thing about all this is that the interstate clubs must be pissing themselves laughing at the "traditional heartland clubs" tearing themselves apart.
We've been doing it for years, now the Blues are doing it. The Cats are having a lash at themselves as well and clubs like the Doggies, Kangas and Dees are " OWNED" by Dimi and the boys.
The way things are going for Victorian clubs we are going to be propping up the arse end of the ladder for years to come while the interstate superpowers just raffle the premierships between themselves.
We've been doing it for years, now the Blues are doing it. The Cats are having a lash at themselves as well and clubs like the Doggies, Kangas and Dees are " OWNED" by Dimi and the boys.
The way things are going for Victorian clubs we are going to be propping up the arse end of the ladder for years to come while the interstate superpowers just raffle the premierships between themselves.
Here's a very good article about the whole situation from Caro:
Failed coup cripples Carlton
Caroline Wilson
September 8, 2006
WITH Carlton Football Club's board the laughing stock of football, Denis Pagan licking his wounds and Stephen Silvagni wondering what hit him, it is clear there is more to come in this amazing saga of the failed coup.
Clearly, the Carlton directors are now riper for takeover than they have ever been. They voted 7-3 on Tuesday night to sack Pagan and had at least $600,000, courtesy of Fraser Brown, with which to pay him out. Then they got cold feet.
Not only did they panic at the thought of replacing Pagan with Barry Mitchell, the Silvagni factor came in to play.
John Valmorbida — who interestingly also hosted the Toorak meeting back in April that tried to overthrow Ian Collins — called Silvagni on Tuesday. While there was no deal, as reported yesterday, to hand Silvagni the senior coaching job in two years, there was an understanding that Silvagni would assist Pagan and add a new face to the football department and, perhaps, ultimately replace him.
But Silvagni knew that what the Blues badly needed was a wheeler-dealer — a solid brain in the mould of Andrew Ireland (formerly of Brisbane Lions and now at Sydney) to take over the football department.
Clubs such as Collingwood have gone ahead of Carlton in terms of recruiting and player development. So Silvagni pushed for Graeme Allan. That push has failed largely because of money. The board believed Allan was too expensive and baulked at it. Yet another mistake, but that is no surprise.
After all, the club is broke. You had only to look at Graham Smorgon locked in an intense discussion with NAB boss and Carlton supporter Ahmed Fahour at the Rising Star award on Wednesday to know that the Blues have money worries.
It was also at that function that Carlton chief executive Michael Malouf questioned Silvagni as to why he was supporting Pagan. Silvagni questioned why the club was sacking Pagan in favour of Mitchell.
Malouf's role in all this must surely prove to be his swansong. He claimed to be Pagan's friend and then turned on him. He has not had much success as a chief executive, has lost the confidence of significant board members and now surely must resign.
Last night, he gave an interview to Channel Ten, saying that Silvagni would not be coming back to the club. President Smorgon— who is also believed to have voted against Pagan — then proceeded to tell The Age late yesterday that Silvagni had never been offered a job. Smorgon added that he did not regard the process that unfolded over the past few days as messy.
"We conducted a review and contrary to what you've been putting out there, we reached a satisfactory conclusion in the Carlton way," Smorgon said. The Carlton way. He said it.
To say Silvagni was never offered a position at Carlton is dealing with semantics. Like so many other players in this nasty drama, Silvagni has been treated badly. For the second time in four years, he has sacrificed himself for his club and lived to regret it.
To say this has not been a mess — a circus, in fact — is wrong. Smorgon surely also must be looking shaky in his position. Ditto Adrian Gleeson, who has been the frontman for the Mitchell coup with Greg Williams' not unsubstantial backing. If you wanted to know their thoughts, they were reported in a tabloid newspaper column yesterday.
And if Stephen Kernahan, who sanctioned the takeover bid only to back down at the death knell, stays on board, then it will be clear that he may never step down and will remain a Carlton director for life. Kernahan has a big reputation, one he truly deserves, but it will need to be big to survive this stuff-up.
And as for Mitchell, he must now somehow endure the remainder of the Northern Bullants' VFL season knowing it will be his last at Carlton. The board at some stage on Wednesday told Pagan he must accept Mitchell as part of his survival package, an insane suggestion.
Why on earth would Mitchell want to stay? His reputation has been badly hurt by all of this, and while Gleeson may still believe he did the right thing, he must now know that he tried to sell the wrong man.
And Pagan. He has survived to address the faithful at tonight's best and fairest. He will then take a short break from the shadow of the proposed sacking that has been hovering over him for the past 12 months. Pagan will then sit down (with a group of men he can trust, not a big number) and try to rebuild his football department, and ascertain just how much say he will have in that rebuilding.
This will test him. Pagan knows that he was all but gone three days ago, and his instincts are sharp enough to tell him that it is not over yet.
This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2006/09/07/1157222264621.html
Failed coup cripples Carlton
Caroline Wilson
September 8, 2006
WITH Carlton Football Club's board the laughing stock of football, Denis Pagan licking his wounds and Stephen Silvagni wondering what hit him, it is clear there is more to come in this amazing saga of the failed coup.
Clearly, the Carlton directors are now riper for takeover than they have ever been. They voted 7-3 on Tuesday night to sack Pagan and had at least $600,000, courtesy of Fraser Brown, with which to pay him out. Then they got cold feet.
Not only did they panic at the thought of replacing Pagan with Barry Mitchell, the Silvagni factor came in to play.
John Valmorbida — who interestingly also hosted the Toorak meeting back in April that tried to overthrow Ian Collins — called Silvagni on Tuesday. While there was no deal, as reported yesterday, to hand Silvagni the senior coaching job in two years, there was an understanding that Silvagni would assist Pagan and add a new face to the football department and, perhaps, ultimately replace him.
But Silvagni knew that what the Blues badly needed was a wheeler-dealer — a solid brain in the mould of Andrew Ireland (formerly of Brisbane Lions and now at Sydney) to take over the football department.
Clubs such as Collingwood have gone ahead of Carlton in terms of recruiting and player development. So Silvagni pushed for Graeme Allan. That push has failed largely because of money. The board believed Allan was too expensive and baulked at it. Yet another mistake, but that is no surprise.
After all, the club is broke. You had only to look at Graham Smorgon locked in an intense discussion with NAB boss and Carlton supporter Ahmed Fahour at the Rising Star award on Wednesday to know that the Blues have money worries.
It was also at that function that Carlton chief executive Michael Malouf questioned Silvagni as to why he was supporting Pagan. Silvagni questioned why the club was sacking Pagan in favour of Mitchell.
Malouf's role in all this must surely prove to be his swansong. He claimed to be Pagan's friend and then turned on him. He has not had much success as a chief executive, has lost the confidence of significant board members and now surely must resign.
Last night, he gave an interview to Channel Ten, saying that Silvagni would not be coming back to the club. President Smorgon— who is also believed to have voted against Pagan — then proceeded to tell The Age late yesterday that Silvagni had never been offered a job. Smorgon added that he did not regard the process that unfolded over the past few days as messy.
"We conducted a review and contrary to what you've been putting out there, we reached a satisfactory conclusion in the Carlton way," Smorgon said. The Carlton way. He said it.
To say Silvagni was never offered a position at Carlton is dealing with semantics. Like so many other players in this nasty drama, Silvagni has been treated badly. For the second time in four years, he has sacrificed himself for his club and lived to regret it.
To say this has not been a mess — a circus, in fact — is wrong. Smorgon surely also must be looking shaky in his position. Ditto Adrian Gleeson, who has been the frontman for the Mitchell coup with Greg Williams' not unsubstantial backing. If you wanted to know their thoughts, they were reported in a tabloid newspaper column yesterday.
And if Stephen Kernahan, who sanctioned the takeover bid only to back down at the death knell, stays on board, then it will be clear that he may never step down and will remain a Carlton director for life. Kernahan has a big reputation, one he truly deserves, but it will need to be big to survive this stuff-up.
And as for Mitchell, he must now somehow endure the remainder of the Northern Bullants' VFL season knowing it will be his last at Carlton. The board at some stage on Wednesday told Pagan he must accept Mitchell as part of his survival package, an insane suggestion.
Why on earth would Mitchell want to stay? His reputation has been badly hurt by all of this, and while Gleeson may still believe he did the right thing, he must now know that he tried to sell the wrong man.
And Pagan. He has survived to address the faithful at tonight's best and fairest. He will then take a short break from the shadow of the proposed sacking that has been hovering over him for the past 12 months. Pagan will then sit down (with a group of men he can trust, not a big number) and try to rebuild his football department, and ascertain just how much say he will have in that rebuilding.
This will test him. Pagan knows that he was all but gone three days ago, and his instincts are sharp enough to tell him that it is not over yet.
This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2006/09/07/1157222264621.html
Heard last night Carlton had their Best & fairest
Stephen Kernahan made a speech and had a fair crack at Hutchy and Caro
Said Caro will ring to try and get news and if she does not get it she will invent news (nothing new there)
Hutchy is a weasel that lives in people backyards and perves on them. (probably correct there too)
He then finished his speech with we are Carlton they rest can go and f### themselves.
Got me pumped up for next year !!!!!
Stephen Kernahan made a speech and had a fair crack at Hutchy and Caro
Said Caro will ring to try and get news and if she does not get it she will invent news (nothing new there)
Hutchy is a weasel that lives in people backyards and perves on them. (probably correct there too)
He then finished his speech with we are Carlton they rest can go and f### themselves.
Got me pumped up for next year !!!!!
Damn! Isn't that exactly what Kerna and his mates are doing to themselves right now.mk33 said:
Someone oughta tell him everyone else is watching and laughing at em.
Hayfever said:
Dennis, Den-nis, when will those clouds all disappear
Dennis, Den-nis, where will you lead us from here?
...
mk33 said:
Saw the speach on TV tonight. It was pathetic, blaming everyone but himself and themselves for the state they are in. Personally from the sound of it he was damn close to defamation and a possible legal suit. Still, I don't want them to repeat this years position on the ladder next year. The rewards for total and complete abject failure is still too great, especially the second year in a row (how many here would like Carlton to get the first two picks of next years draft?).
The best thing is that can happen is if they claw and struggle to somewhere mid-table adrift in an eternal sea of mediocrity. It's ironic, but the way the system is at the moment I hate them too much to see them finish again next season on the bottom of the ladder...go figure???