Justice?

[Legends of 2017]

I've held off writing about this, but recent incidents have really p!ssed me off. In Victoria, is justice really served? The most obvious example is the recent double murder of the 2 sisters a week or so ago. The alleged murderer who was killed in WA had a long history of violence, at least what we know that was published in the papers. He was convicted of rape and only served 2 years. On top of that he assualted a blind frail woman in her fifties in her own home. He copped an extra 12 months on his rape sentence. If he had a reasonable sentence handed down in the first place, who knows, maybe the 2 young ladies would be alive today.
Also in the heraldsun today, there's a report about a policeman who was left with a smashed ankle after being run down by a drug suspect. The perpetrator got a 9 month suspended jail sentence. This policeman may have a permanent disability for just doing his job. Then there's all the stories you hear about pedophiles getting light sentences and then reoffending.
I know cops who are constantly frustrated by doing all the hard work to get these dregs of society off the streets only to have some bleeding heart judge let them off with a ridiculously inadequate sentence. I also notice that the judge who sentenced the previously mentioned rapist hasn't had his/her name published.
Politicians and police urge us not to take the law into our own hands, but it's bloody hard sometimes when you constantly hear about the joke sentences handed out.
Is there a solution to this? Should we elect our judges like they do in the US? Or should judges be reviewed by an independant body, made up of all walks of our community, not politicians, every few years. Or should judges get out in the real world and hand sentences down that reflect the gravity of the crime. Maybe they should see the result of their mollycoddling sentences by attending funerals of victims.
I'm all for rehabilitation and once someone has done their time (as long as it's reasonable in relation to their crime) they should be given a chance. Repeat offenders are a different story. They should be locked up and throw away the key. Will there ever be a time that justice will be the overriding factor in sentences being carried out?
Sorry I'm venting but it's hard to read these stories in the news what seems like most days. I'm interested in hearing what other PREnders think about this topic.

 

[pahoffm]

Yes, it's a tough one to call.

The more I learn about justice, and I'm 45yo, the more I learn that it is tied up with injustice, and inconsistancies with the execution of justice.

Many people still argue to this day that, over a century ago, Justice Redmond Barry got it all wrong when he sentenced Ned Kelly to hang for the police killings at Stringybark Creek.

It would seem that the pendulum has swung, in our times, in a different direction.

I actually proposed, at a particular political party's state conference about 20 years ago, for an Australian penal colony to be built on an island halfway between Australia & Antarctica. Particular felons would be sent there never to return to Australia. This would have been much like the France's Devil's Island, French Guiana, of Papillon & Dreyfus fame. My proposal didn't get up. I really didn't expect it too. We spend all this money building horrible detention centres in and around the worst parts of Australia, yet we never seem to put the people most deserving of these terrible places there.

It amazes me that judges can make decisions and have their names withheld. IMO, in a democracy, all judges should be held accountable for their decisions.

On the other hand, I suppose the one thing that we must all be thankful for, in our Australian democracy, is that we do not live in a normal state of injustice & persecution. There are many people in the world who live their everyday lives in fear. We don't seem to.

We should be happy that justice is the norm, and injustice is rare.

 

[TigerForce]

Yes, it's a tough one to call.

The more I learn about justice, and I'm 45yo, the more I learn that it is tied up with injustice, and inconsistancies with the execution of justice.

Many people still argue to this day that, over a century ago, Justice Redmond Barry got it all wrong when he sentenced Ned Kelly to hang for the police killings at Stringybark Creek.

It would seem that the pendulum has swung, in our times, in a different direction.

I actually proposed, at a particular political party's state conference about 20 years ago, for an Australian penal colony to be built on an island halfway between Australia & Antarctica. Particular felons would be sent there never to return to Australia. This would have been much like the France's Devil's Island, French Guiana, of Papillon & Dreyfus fame. My proposal didn't get up. I really didn't expect it too. We spend all this money building horrible detention centres in and around the worst parts of Australia, yet we never seem to put the people most deserving of these terrible places there.

It amazes me that judges can make decisions and have their names withheld. IMO, in a democracy, all judges should be held accountable for their decisions.

On the other hand, I suppose the one thing that we must all be thankful for, in our Australian democracy, is that we do not live in a normal state of injustice & persecution. There are many people in the world who live their everyday lives in fear. We don't seem to.

We should be happy that justice is the norm, and injustice is rare.

We should call you Mr Wikipedia with all that interesting knowledge of yours Phantom.

Have you applied for Who Wants to be a Millionaire yet ? :hihi

 

[eight ace]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/sa1991121/

 

[eight ace]

Those dastardly judges and the decisions they make without any reference to the law. Have a look at Section 1 as a starter.

 

[poppa x]

A very complex and important topic.  The lawyers and judges will argue that we the plebs are not qualified to have an opinion.  Which is probably true.  But what do we do when they the experts keep stuffing things up?  There are too many examples of hard-core criminals being sentenced leniently and then released early.

My solution is to demand our politicians introduce mandatory sentences.  For example, 15 years with no parole for rape.  20 years with no parole for kiddy fiddling.  Life with no possibility of parole for murder.  We can debate the number of years - these are just examples - but more important we should debate the concept of mandatory sentences which takes away the judges "discretion".

 

[Tigers of Old]

It amazes me that judges can make decisions and have their names withheld. IMO, in a democracy, all judges should be held accountable for their decisions.

I'm sure there's a very good reason for that. If you were a judge handing down sentences to criminals in difficult cases you may not want your name publicised. Fair enough too I think.
However I'm surprised there isn't some type of independant judicial watchdog?

 

[eight ace]

There is. It is called the Court of Appeal. The point I was making is that judges are constantly being criticised as being out of touch with community standards when, in fact, their sentencing decisions are principled decisions made in accordance with relevant legislation implemented by the state legislature. Is it possibly the state parliament that is not in touch with community standards? Could it be, alternatively, that community standards fluctuate on such matters and that Parliament is trying to implement legislation that allows for principled application of sentencing decisions? Could it be that the relevant magistrate knew more about the facts associated with the police sergeant's matter than either his mother or the herald sun journalist? Get away.

 

[craig]

Maybe integrating some Shahriah law ala Saudi Arabia, and Iran may have an impact :hihi :hihi

 

[Liverpool]

Maybe integrating some Shahriah law ala Saudi Arabia, and Iran may have an impact  :hihi :hihi

I have no problem with a whipping for graffiti, like they do in Singapore (or was it Malyasia?)
Or a strapping for kids at school.
Or a parent giving a slap on the backside if a kid is playing up.
I think things have got too soft these days... :

Sentencing is far to lenient int he courts too.
One way to use a judge's discretion, is if they let someone go earlier than they should, then the judge will be put on trial for whatever crime that person does.

So that b*stard who killed the 2 sisters...the judges who gave him such lenient sentences for his previous crimes, they should be the ones who now have to face the courts!
That should stop judges giving lenient sentences in the future if it is THEY who have to face the music if the perpertrator reoffends.

 

[eight ace]

Good to see you are prepared to contribute some sense to the discussion.

 

[Rosy]

Good to see you are prepared to contribute some sense to the discussion.

Yep nothing like the jails full of judges doing time for other people's crimes. :

And no school teacher would want to have strapped my kids either Liverpool. How barbaric.

 

[Liverpool]

Good to see you are prepared to contribute some sense to the discussion.

Yep nothing like the jails full of judges doing time for other people's crimes. :

And no school teacher would want to have strapped my kids either Liverpool.  How barbaric.

Rosy,
Were you around at school when corporal punishment did exist?

 

[Rosy]

Rosy,
Were you around at school when corporal punishment did exist?

Yes and there's no room for it whatsoever.  Not sure of the legality of it but it certainly happened. I remember one bully teacher taking a kid in the backroom and strapping him.  The noise was horrible.  It wasn't the kid who'd mucked up though.  The gutless teacher, who had a foul temper, knew who was doing the stirring but picked on a different kid who was often the butt of class jokes.   

 

[Liverpool]

Rosy,
Were you around at school when corporal punishment did exist?

Yes and there's no room for it whatsoever.  Not sure of the legality of it but it certainly happened. I remember one bully teacher taking a kid in the backroom and strapping him.  The noise was horrible.  It wasn't the kid who'd mucked up though.  The gutless teacher, who had a foul temper, knew who was doing the stirring but picked on a different kid who was often the butt of class jokes.   

I also did, and when I was younger, thought there was no room for it either.
However, when you hear 4-year-olds swearing like they've been in the navy for 10 years, two 14-year-old girls bashing a taxi-driver to death in Sydney...I wonder if we have gone too much the other way, and kids feel they can get away with anything! :-X

But when you see shows like "Super Nanny", you really wonder whether parents today have a clu about kids...and should they be allowed to have kids! :

Think its a combination of society gone too soft (in many areas) and just parents with no discipline!

 

[evo]

I got the strap quite a lot in primary school.Amazing how things have changed.

 

[Rosy]

I've never seen super nanny, well I saw about 2 minutes of it once and turned it off.  I think it's a load of manufactured rubbish.

Yes upbringing has a lot to do with how children behave but I don't think teachers, or others of authority, have any right to make judgements and try and strap kids into submission.

To me building self esteem and giving kids opportunities is better thay abusing them, something some of them would sadly be all too familiar with.

I can't believe I've even taken the bait.  The thought of beating kids so obscene to me I'm not 100% sure you're not having a lend of us.

 

[Liverpool]

I got the strap quite a lot in primary school.Amazing how things have changed.

And do you feel you came out of it o.k?
No lasting effects? Trips to the psycho or anything?
You seem to come out of it (half) o.k anyways... :hihi

 

[evo]

Mum was a bit of the fan of the wooden spoon too. Yeah I think I came out of it ok but glad it isn't the done thing these days.I've never hit my kid and don't plan to.

 

[Liverpool]

I've never seen super nanny, well I saw about 2 minutes of it once and turned it off.  I think it's a load of manufactured rubbish.

Yes upbringing has a lot to do with how children behave but I don't think teachers, or others of authority, have any right to make judgements and try and strap kids into submission.

To me building self esteem and giving kids opportunities is better thay abusing them, something some of them would sadly be all too familiar with.

I can't believe I've even taken the bait.  The thought of beating kids so obscene to me I'm not 100% sure you're not having a lend of us.

Rosy,
A smack on the backside is different to beating a kid black and blue though.
I'm not endorsing kids get beaten so they end up in hospital, for God's sake.....but a little tap on the bum when your child is misbehaving or being cheeky, isn't as bad as people carry on.
So no, I'm not having a lend of you!  

Evo,
You got the wooden spoon too?...Looks like we're 'spoon brothers' then! :hihi
I think I turned out o.k...never been on drugs, or trouble with the police, got good marks at school/uni, and have a good career....so my taps on the bum couldn't have been that bad (I reckon I probably deserved it at the time! ).....and I still catch up with Mum on weekends too!