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Kamdyn McIntosh

DavidSSS

Tiger Superstar
Dec 11, 2017
1,521
926
Melbourne
Baron Samedi, I agree that Ellis' running is essential in the game plan and I do think, as Big Richo says, that some don't see how important that running into space is.

I think we're seeing how difficult it can be balancing the salary cap/list management with the game plan and players available. I reckon we would like to have kept Ellis (as evidenced by playing him in the GF) but from a list management perspective we just couldn't fit him in at the price he can command. For another club, especially a club like Gold Coast, his experience in how a good system works will be invaluable.

I agree Caddy is a different winger and 2 playing his role changes the game plan too much.

I think we can cover Ellis, but we also don't really have a choice, his value is more than we could afford in the context of the whole list. We might have to tweak some of the system as a result but you constantly evolve or get left behind.

Good luck to Ellis, he has been a valuable contributor, sometimes frustrating, but I reckon he will do well and this should set him up for life and help out his family.

DS
 
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Baron Samedi

Tiger Champion
Apr 20, 2016
4,162
501
Disposal wise, Ellis's last 4 games were in his worst 6 or 7 games of the year. Grand final was the lowest. Had just 2 and 1 contested possies in two of the last 3 games. Sure that's not what it's all about but he's replaceable by someone who may have a little less running capacity but better decision-making and disposal skills. Caddy proved that with his smarts. Ellis isn't a bad player, he starts top 22 in most teams but clearly the Tigers saw that there are alternatives in prospective youngsters looking forward and I agree. Not quite ready in 2019 but 2020 imo was always going to be a pressure season for Ellis to maintain his spot. At the salary and timeframe he was being offered it was a pretty black and white decision I think.
In general I agree with you.

I just wanted to highlight the defensive running, which is both elite and unheralded by the public at large.
 
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Baron Samedi

Tiger Champion
Apr 20, 2016
4,162
501
Baron Samedi, I agree that Ellis' running is essential in the game plan and I do think, as Big Richo says, that some don't see how important that running into space is.

I think we're seeing how difficult it can be balancing the salary cap/list management with the game plan and players available. I reckon we would like to have kept Ellis (as evidenced by playing him in the GF) but from a list management perspective we just couldn't fit him in at the price he can command. For another club, especially a club like Gold Coast, his experience in how a good system works will be invaluable.

I agree Caddy is a different winger and 2 playing his role changes the game plan too much.

I think we can cover Ellis, but we also don't really have a choice, his value is more than we could afford in the context of the whole list. We might have to tweak some of the system as a result but you constantly evolve or get left behind.

Good luck to Ellis, he has been a valuable contributor, sometimes frustrating, but I reckon he will do well and this should set him up for life and help out his family.

DS
well said.
 
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tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
12,158
1,402
lambert is my pick to take the spot of ellis….
Could be on the money there. He regularly ran the most distance in games for the Tigers and he has pretty good disposal skills. Height is probably the only issue against maybe some taller wingmen.
 

tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
12,158
1,402
We need to forget about Caddy in the conversation re the role Ellis played, it's like comparing Broad and Houli as half backs.
There a few that were very suspect about Caddy making it as a wingman due to the perception of what is required to be a wingman. I think what Caddy showed is you can think outside the square, tweak your game plan a bit and make something different out of a position. It's imo what has made the Tigers such an invincible team, the ability to do things not quite the considered normal.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
35,513
2,411
Plenty of confidence that this club will find a replacement for Bellis. If it means putting someone in with different traits that we can exploit in a new way, we will. Expect the unexpected from this footy team, trying to predict their moves is like winning Powerball. At best you'll get a couple of numbers right, but getting them all right is near impossible
 
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The Mole

Tiger Superstar
Apr 1, 2003
1,951
55
There a few that were very suspect about Caddy making it as a wingman due to the perception of what is required to be a wingman. I think what Caddy showed is you can think outside the square, tweak your game plan a bit and make something different out of a position. It's imo what has made the Tigers such an invincible team, the ability to do things not quite the considered normal.
I saw Cads in Richmond on Sunday morning and he has really slimmed down, no doubt to improve his running capacity.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
19,005
1,425
There a few that were very suspect about Caddy making it as a wingman due to the perception of what is required to be a wingman. I think what Caddy showed is you can think outside the square, tweak your game plan a bit and make something different out of a position. It's imo what has made the Tigers such an invincible team, the ability to do things not quite the considered normal.
Yep, Cadds wound up playing the KMac wing role, with a hint more evil thrown in. Bobble's an entirely different wing type to replace, expecting kids like Naish, Turner, Lego, English n perhaps Lamblett to all be vying for a look.
 
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MD Jazz

Tiger Champion
Feb 3, 2017
3,972
619
There a few that were very suspect about Caddy making it as a wingman due to the perception of what is required to be a wingman. I think what Caddy showed is you can think outside the square, tweak your game plan a bit and make something different out of a position. It's imo what has made the Tigers such an invincible team, the ability to do things not quite the considered normal.
I think Caddy's running when on a wing is underestimated. Posters make it seem Brando was running both wings whilst Caddy was bludging!

Ellis will not be missed. It will be similar to K-Mac not being missed. K-Mac was essentially replaced by a better/more valuable player, so it will be with Ellis.

I think we were better in 2019 than 2017 and we will be better again in 2020.
 

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
19,005
1,425
None of those kids will play if we don't have injuries. Too much depth.
Yep, we've got plenty of depth, just not sure who else might take the two way running wing role for this year. Bash? Shorty? might get nudged up the ground though I'd prefer Bash on the long sweep off the back line. Really don't want to mess around with our mids to forwards structure n rotations as this has been working superbly for us over the last few years.
Guess we'll just have to wait n see what the match committee has in mind over the practice games.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
11,417
2,411
Good dialogue and analysis around Brando and Kmac.

Both played very important selfless roles in premierships and I love them both to varying degrees (yes, guilty of being too hard on Bellis at times and too easy on Kmac at times)

but in the big scheme both are relatively easy to cover. Theres a lot of crude footballers with discipline and big motors out there I reckon.
 
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tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
12,158
1,402
I think Caddy's running when on a wing is underestimated. Posters make it seem Brando was running both wings whilst Caddy was bludging!
Clearly Caddy's running capacity is nowhere near the elite staus that Ellis's is. But that to me is just proof that footy is more about smarts than gut running up and down a field. Caddy is a very clever player. Being able to position yourself and know what positions to run to based on reading the play is far more important in my view than raw athletic prowess. That is likely why Caddy was selected ahead of McIntosh and why Caddy is still at the Tigers and Ellis has moved on.
 
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The_General

Brain washing the kids, one stuffed toy at a time
May 4, 2004
8,243
379
I've probably already given this story before, but Ellis's running capabilities were ranked top 5 in the league.

An anecdote I was told by someone close to the source has said Ed Curnow was rated across the league as one of the toughest endurance runners in the game.

He lined up next to Brandon in a Rd 1 match earlier in BEllis's career and said something like "prepare to run kid, you're not in U18 anymore." He then turned around and said you "better get used to looking at that number, because that's all you'll see all day."

Brandon allegedly ran him into the ground. So much so that Curnow's teammates reminded him mockingly after the game about his boast pre-match.

I doubt we'll be able to replace Ellis's running ability, it's elite and not easily replicated. But as an overall package, I think we'll get a better mix of skills that will make Brandon not a huge loss.
 
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The Big Richo

Moderator
Aug 19, 2010
1,753
1,063
The home of Dusty
Clearly Caddy's running capacity is nowhere near the elite staus that Ellis's is. But that to me is just proof that footy is more about smarts than gut running up and down a field. Caddy is a very clever player. Being able to position yourself and know what positions to run to based on reading the play is far more important in my view than raw athletic prowess. That is likely why Caddy was selected ahead of McIntosh and why Caddy is still at the Tigers and Ellis has moved on.
The thing is that the running of the likes of Ellis and Broad allow players like Caddy and Martin and Houli to play the way we want them to play.
 
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MD Jazz

Tiger Champion
Feb 3, 2017
3,972
619
The thing is that the running of the likes of Ellis and Broad allow players like Caddy and Martin and Houli to play the way we want them to play.
The confusing thing for me is why the club chose to let Ellis go if he is so critical as argued above by yourself and others? And it wasn't a negotiation with Brando and the club bartering over $$. It was a mid-year meeting where he was told he would not have a place on the list in 2020. Perhaps you overrate his place/role?

Regardless I hope Ellis kills it at the Gold coast, he will forever be a dual premiership tiger hero.
 

The Big Richo

Moderator
Aug 19, 2010
1,753
1,063
The home of Dusty
The confusing thing for me is why the club chose to let Ellis go if he is so critical as argued above by yourself and others? And it wasn't a negotiation with Brando and the club bartering over $$. It was a mid-year meeting where he was told he would not have a place on the list in 2020. Perhaps you overrate his place/role?
I'm not saying Ellis is critical, I'm saying his role is and it will need to be filled by someone who can run high intensity 14-16kms each week.

That will only come from a certain body type, a lean, rangy type like a McIntosh or Markov.

As for why Ellis left, as I said I think it is mostly about money, not because we wouldn't have liked to keep him.

What would have gone down is early last year the RFC would have had informal talks with his manager. They will have said he is on top 10 money at the moment, we see him as being only worth 15-30 money and probably under that because of the success tax.
His management will have taken it to him and tested the market, found interest and decided not to take a huge pay cut on what is likely his last major contract. Hence by the mid-year the RFC knows what he is looking for and they tell him there is no way forward at the club for him.
 
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