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Kane Cornes
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the issue isnt that Cornes wrote it, tho i am sure it helps fire people up, it is that what he is saying is either wrong, such as how many top30 picks we had in 2021, lazy, such as comparing our strategy to the hawks when they are vastly different, or an opinion dressed as fact- such as his view on Cotchin.
Yes, everything could fall apart for us this year, but the same could be said for any club.
it is a rubbish article for someone who I assume was paid to write it.
Cheaper options are Mitchell 30 and Grundy 29 but that could also be considered a short term game. Looking at 2022 trades in isolation it's a fair investment for 2 mids in their prime but if you balance it over 2 trade years where we took 5 kids in the top 30 it becomes more balanced and could be argued a better long term strategy than patching with blokes approaching their used by. Proof is in the pudding and time will tell how far our 2 primes and last year's crop shifts the needle compared to the guys you mentioned at their new homes.
Don't know why you are all giving him so much oxygen.
It is a click bait article looking for a response and look at the response, he has got what he wants.
We get The Age delivered and I certainly haven't bothered to read the article.
Go through the list of any team and you could poke great holes in it. Maybe if we didn't have the salary cap and draft some rich teams could put together a list with no holes, wouldn't make for much of a competition though.
We all know there are issues. Ruck is an issue but the reality of the question around the importance of rucks isn't so different from a lot of other positions on the ground. They are important when you go up against a team with an exceptional ruck, less important otherwise. Yes, Melbourne won a flag with a stand-out ruck, but Geelong didn't have one, we won 3 with Nank, and Grundy wasn't enough to tip the scales against West Coast sans Natinui.
Ageing premiership stars who are not as good as they once were . . . well that's unprecedented, never been seen before! I'm sure it is a problem every club wouldn't mind having, because if you have ageing premiership stars, especially ageing multiple premiership stars, it means you have won premierships recently. I'll take that problem any day.
Tarranto and Hopper address a clear need. Maybe we should have looked harder at getting Grundy as our ruck stocks are not brilliant. Then again, if Soldo could get back to his best and Ryan develops we could already have the solution at the club. But you don't pass on a deal like getting 2 excellent midfielders in 1 trade period lightly. If we aren't competitive I don't think it will be because we picked up 2 quality mids in their mid 20s.
Everybody knows that staying near the top, contending after a period of success, is damned near impossible. I reckon were having a fair crack at trying to do this with young players coming in and some good trading. Not guaranteed to work, nothing is, but it's worth trying.
DS
It is a click bait article looking for a response and look at the response, he has got what he wants.
We get The Age delivered and I certainly haven't bothered to read the article.
Go through the list of any team and you could poke great holes in it. Maybe if we didn't have the salary cap and draft some rich teams could put together a list with no holes, wouldn't make for much of a competition though.
We all know there are issues. Ruck is an issue but the reality of the question around the importance of rucks isn't so different from a lot of other positions on the ground. They are important when you go up against a team with an exceptional ruck, less important otherwise. Yes, Melbourne won a flag with a stand-out ruck, but Geelong didn't have one, we won 3 with Nank, and Grundy wasn't enough to tip the scales against West Coast sans Natinui.
Ageing premiership stars who are not as good as they once were . . . well that's unprecedented, never been seen before! I'm sure it is a problem every club wouldn't mind having, because if you have ageing premiership stars, especially ageing multiple premiership stars, it means you have won premierships recently. I'll take that problem any day.
Tarranto and Hopper address a clear need. Maybe we should have looked harder at getting Grundy as our ruck stocks are not brilliant. Then again, if Soldo could get back to his best and Ryan develops we could already have the solution at the club. But you don't pass on a deal like getting 2 excellent midfielders in 1 trade period lightly. If we aren't competitive I don't think it will be because we picked up 2 quality mids in their mid 20s.
Everybody knows that staying near the top, contending after a period of success, is damned near impossible. I reckon were having a fair crack at trying to do this with young players coming in and some good trading. Not guaranteed to work, nothing is, but it's worth trying.
DS
You get The Age delivered? You're actually paying for that *smile* David?
Yeah, my partner pays and anyway, I like to read a hard copy newspaper and I sure as hell am not getting anything from Murdoch.
DS
Did not Richmond go deep into the National draft in 2021 and select 5 juniors? Last time I looked 2021 draft was, well not much more than 12 months ago. You are cherry picking the 2022 year as if is indicative of previous years to suit an argument. Tactic sound familiar? If not, read name of title of this thread.
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This.
We are still contending because of Blair Hartley, Damien Hardwick, Benny Gale and a united board, not based on another club’s blueprint.
Spot on, TBR.
Cornes probably takes more shots at Dimma & Cotch than at anyone else in football. It sounds like he has a deep seated hatred of all things Richmond. He is the worst kind of media nob that trolls for attention (clicks).
The best thing Tiger supporters can do is turn off any radio or TV station that this d!ck is on, and don't bother with his articles. He is not providing incitful opinion, he is looking to create attention and get a rise out of us.
I feel toward him as he feels toward Richmond
Yep. Mentioned it before. In a 12 year, 189 game career, his best returns for a season are 49, 48 & 41 goals. I’m sure if any other big key forward had those figures, cornflakes would be bagging them non stop
Though I think our hope is to contend this year, I completely disagree that it was an all chips on the table decision to draft the two GWS boys. The drafting of these two was definitely with an eye towards the future. What happens without these two if Dion, Dustin, and Cotch all retire in the next two years? You need some seasoned bodies otherwise you’re just throwing young blokes to the wolves.
Not sure you're totally right here BTR. There's obviously a factor in strengthening our mid field with a view to contending immediately. But also with the age demographic of our list there's also a strong need to have a couple of quality experienced blokes to provide leadership and professionalism to the developing youngsters in future years. No Shedda, Lamblett, Cadds. Cotch, Jaaack, Fish, Grub, Dusty, Prestygiaocomo getting fairly long in the tooth n transitioning out sooner than later. There'd be a strong need to have blokes like Tarantino n grassy grassy Grasshopper filling that core experienced leadership area.
Got me a feeling none of the 18 clubs really knows what works best for premiership glory or long term sustained success..
Appears that the Moggies have worked out a bloody good system that has them in contention year on year with four flags over the last twenty years and who knows what's to come in the next few.
Swannies, Hawks n Tiges seem to operate to a similar system with only the Hawks so far dropping into a massive rebuilding hole. Tiges n Swannies more a dip n bounce during their eras.
Clubs that go the full rebuild through bottoming out n hoovering the draft seem to spend a hell of a long time mired in mediocrity n potential. #Lolnorf, Bloosers, St Kiddenme, Crowbaits, with Brisvegas so far the only rebuild club that have elevated to the contender status.
Gee Whizz n the Mould Coast as start up clubs obviously contend as ultimate bottom out n hoover the draft superstars with hugely differing results. Mould coast pretty much stagnated in mediocrity, while Gee Whizz have at least flashed n burned.
Frockers, Pordadalayde, Colonwood, Weagles, Woofers, Smelbourne have to some degree flashed n burned hovering around the fringes of finals at times. Three have been premiers with so far no era to lock into and three still wishfull dreaming.
Only thing that's an absolute guarantee regardless of how clubs go about their systems is that you're a long time mired in the hole of mediocrity if you don't get a hell of a lot of things right.
Appears that the Moggies have worked out a bloody good system that has them in contention year on year with four flags over the last twenty years and who knows what's to come in the next few.
Swannies, Hawks n Tiges seem to operate to a similar system with only the Hawks so far dropping into a massive rebuilding hole. Tiges n Swannies more a dip n bounce during their eras.
Clubs that go the full rebuild through bottoming out n hoovering the draft seem to spend a hell of a long time mired in mediocrity n potential. #Lolnorf, Bloosers, St Kiddenme, Crowbaits, with Brisvegas so far the only rebuild club that have elevated to the contender status.
Gee Whizz n the Mould Coast as start up clubs obviously contend as ultimate bottom out n hoover the draft superstars with hugely differing results. Mould coast pretty much stagnated in mediocrity, while Gee Whizz have at least flashed n burned.
Frockers, Pordadalayde, Colonwood, Weagles, Woofers, Smelbourne have to some degree flashed n burned hovering around the fringes of finals at times. Three have been premiers with so far no era to lock into and three still wishfull dreaming.
Only thing that's an absolute guarantee regardless of how clubs go about their systems is that you're a long time mired in the hole of mediocrity if you don't get a hell of a lot of things right.
Hawthorn traded out senior players, like Melbourne and others before them. Maybe you could argue it eventually paid off for Melbourne, but it took over a decade anyway. Geelong didn't trade out ageing players, so not sure why you're suggesting we should have.
The bit about trading out of the early roubds of the draft: early draft picks just increase your chances of bringing in goid players, they don't guarantee it. Kornes states "we" don't know the quality of our young players, but he means he doesn't. I'd say "we" know and are pretty happy with the quality of MoJu, Ryan, Juddy, Banks, Brown, as well as the two he's heard of, Sonz and Godcus.
I reckon our developing list is pretty talented, it's just missing the next Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt. You need top 3 picks for the first two and luck that the idiots picking in front of you go for Kreuzer, Scully or Armitage for all three. Or you bring them in via trade and free agency, a la Lynch and Taranto.
As others have shown, we've invested way more in the draft than Hawthorn did, so it's lazy and ignorant to say we've taken the same path as them. We've clearly followed a similar strategy to Geelong: keep bringing in young talent while trading for needs.
A lot still needs to go right. For everything Geelong has done right and allvthe favours bestowed upon them, they still popped the champagne corks with relief when their nemesis was cheated out of last year's finals.
Geelong also has the greatest home ground advantage in the league, Maso. They start on 7 wins every year, then get to play another 10 games at neutral venues. They don't play 'home' games at Marvel against Marvel tenants or interstate minnows. They have the point of difference of being able to sell lifestyle to homesick country boys, which helped them snag Dangerfield, Cameron, Henry and others for unders. They get to keep all the profits fron their taxpayer funded bowling alley because they're in marginal state and federal electorates.
Geelong is unique. Credit to them because all those advantages were once weaknesses that they turned into strengths, but it's not a level playing field.
Spot on. It’s the biggest false narrative when the minions burst a blood vessel over their over the top adulation of Scott’s H & A record.
Who said we didn't?
It doesn't change the fact that if we were doing a conventional rebuild we would have taken all the first round picks again this year, retired a couple of blokes and been content to slide out of the 8.
The point is we are trying to remain in contention indefinitely rather than rebuild, the micros of how we do that don't really matter, the question is whether the macro strategy is the right one.
There was a fork in the road last year and we went left. Cornes thinks we should have gone right. The answer will be in how long it takes us to reach the destination.
Never a truer word has been spoken on this forum.
Not surprisingly I don't go along with that. I think he calls it as he sees it in a very forthright way. Saying Cotchin should have retired doesn't mean he hates him, there are people on here who would happily have his babies that have asked the same question. You wouldn't really be thinking deeply about the game if you didn't ask it.
I'm not suggesting we should have done anything, just presenting the options. I have no clue what we should have done and I'm in the fortunate position of not having to put my balls on the line, I can just sit back and judge the results.
I'm hopeful we are on the right track and worried we might not be but that's as far as I go.
The link with Hawthorn and Geelong isn't on the individual steps, it's the philosophy. For a long time the accepted wisdom has been once your group peaks you cut the list and go to the draft to rebuild your core. Let's call that bus route A.
Hawthorn and Geelong came along and said stuff bus route A, we reckon if we take the B bus we can make a short cut that will get us to the destination much more quickly. We have done the same thing.
The fact Hawthorn sat in the front and Geelong in the back and we are in the middle, or that one of them changed buses a station before everyone else doesn't matter, we are all trying to achieve the same result in a way that is outside the previously accepted way to get to the final stop.
Hawthorn is currently at a bus stop in the middle of nowhere, trying to read the map and work out the way back, Geelong made it to the final stop and stayed there longer than most and we have just left the station. Time will tell.
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