KB - more sinned or sinned against

[Leeds_Tiger]

I want to open some debate on a controversial topic regarding KB's departure from the club at the end of 1991.

KB claims that he was unfairly sacked from the club. I don't agree.

When he took over the club in 1987, we had just finished 14th and last. In his first year, he got us to 10th. By 1991, his last year, he had not bettered that position and we finished 13th.

After 4 years, the board decided that results of 10th, 14th, 11th & 13th were signs that the club was not progressing under KB's leadership. He had a 4 year contract and it wasn't renewed - to my mind, understandably.

But KB claims that he was sacked, unfairly treated and still has not returned to the club since then, a period now extending to 12 years.

Bear in mind that since this time, coaches such as Tony Jewell and Francis Bourke, both sacked one year after making a GF and former captains Dale Weightman and Jeff Hogg have returned to the club despite being harshly treated at the end of their careers. I imagine Matthew Knights will also happily return to the club.

The ability for these and other former greats to forgive and forget and acknowledge that difficult decisions have to be made just make KB's attitude very childish.

What do others think?

 

[froars]

We talked about this only recently Leeds - I don't think much has changed for me. He is being silly IMHO, but the choice is his if he wants to stay away - sad though it is for the thousands of his fans

 

[Tigerdog]

Leeds I am sure Rosy or mT will be kind enough to provide a link to the chat we had about this awhile ago.
Hope you have some time on your hands though, because from memory it was about 5 pages long!!

 

[Leeds_Tiger]

Thanks guys. Sorry, I've been off air for a while and hadn't checked the previous postings. I will enjoy reading them!

 

[admin]

I'll look for the thread tomorrow. I couldn't find it in a search, so it could be among the pages that have gone missing.
I'm in the middle of doing a backup of the site (spent 7 hours on it tonight and still nowhere near finished...am stuffed)
Then I'll have a crack at rebuilding the board and hopefully finding the missing pages.
Wish me luck, ha.....
I won't attempt anything like that till I have the backup done, or we could end up missing more than a few pages.

 

[tro-boy]

IMO, so much time has now elapsed since KB was involved with footy (at the highest level) that he is now irrelevant to the game and Richmond.

If he wants to come and watch Richmond games good on him. However, I dont think he would be of any use to the Richmond Football Club in a professional capacity.

Even Spud the Dud would probably be a better tactician than KB these days.

Let the man eat his fish and chips and take his grudge to the grave if he wants.

 

[Rampaging_Richo]

FACTS OF EVENTS
1. When KB took over as coach, he was told the next day they were in debt $1mil, and as far as drafting goes, he could only pick up 16-17yr olds who will cost nothing.

2. Some of the players he got this way include - Trent Nicholls, Tony Free, Matthew Knights, Nick Daffy, Chris Naish, Brendon Gale, Wayne Campbell

3. In his last year in 1991 as coach he had 8 wins, with wins over Collingwood, Geelong at Geelong, and Carlton. The next 2 years under Jeans and Northy generated a total of 7 wins. This was when the club could start spending money to recruit decent players. If comparing KB's tactics to latter coaches, he was IMO a very good coach, with his tactics being pretty much what he learned under Tom Hafey, but without the players to carry out the plan.

4. His gripe isn't that he was sacked, it is the way in which the club went about it, namely Cameron "serial wanker" Schwab and Neville "cladding salesman" Crowe attempting to sack him over the phone. Nice treatment for a person who has served a club with distinction for 27 yrs.

5. Upon facing KB, they didn't have the guts to admit that they had already employed Alan Jeans (he by the way took the club for a ride, as he had just lost a heap of money with Tony Lockett by a dodgy accountant ripping them off)

Now, I think it would be great for KB to return to the club. In fact he has done several things for the club over the past few years, that have not made it in to the media.

But if 27 yrs of service, including 5 premierships, 700 goals etc.... doesn't please you, nothing will.

 

[Redford]

I respect KB for the playing legend he is, and as much as I would like to see him return, in my opinion the club should not waste any more time making overtures etc. to him.

KB is a very immature individual. At the end of the day he had 4 very unsuccessful years as coach - and that's enough in anyone's language.

And as far as the circumstances that may/may not have been involved surrounding the method of his termination, surely someone of KB's experience realises that football is a cloke and dagger industry at the best of times. If not, then that is just being naive. I also find it quite ironic that someone who works in the media and makes a living off this aspect of the game still holds a big grudge about his own treatment at one point in time of their long career.

KB is doing himself a huge disservice by maintaining this stance. Obviously he doesn't identify with the motto "The club is always bigger than the individual", because whilst a number of people would have had a bit of sympathy for a legend like KB taking this stance initially, he has gone completely overboard with it all and now most Richmond people are quite indifferent towards him.

And that is a great shame, because that is not how any
Richmond legend should ever be considered.

 

[Rampaging_Richo]

"KB is a very immature individual"
How would you know????? What a stupid statement....

"surely someone of KB's experience realises that football is a cloke and dagger industry at the best of times. If not, then that is just being naive"
Being sacked was not the issue, the way it was done was. The treated a legend like absolute *smile*

." Obviously he doesn't identify with the motto "The club is always bigger than the individual", because whilst a number of people would have had a bit of sympathy for a legend like KB taking this stance initially, he has gone completely overboard with it all and now most Richmond people are quite indifferent towards him"

Well maybe the club can repay him the couple of thousand dollars that they owe him for the gym equipment he bought during his tenure.

The irony of this whole topic is people praise absolute hacks that return to the club when they need a profile or a job, and bag people that stay away from the club.

The fact is some people need to be around the club environment for various reasons (mainly for the fact they underachieved) after their on field career is over, and other people feel comfortable that they have contributed as much as they possibly can where it counts - on field - that they are happy to sit back and watch from afar and enjoy their private lives.

He has contributed more to the club than anybody except Jack Dyer.

 

[froars]

Many of the so-called hacks you call who come back to the club don't do for the job or profile - many do lots of good work behind the scenes and gratis.

Tommy Hafey wasn't considered a champion player, but he came back to the club and made quite a contribution.

Dale Weightman has come back to the club - is he a hack? Hardly - and he doesn't need a profile. Disco has been coming to the club over many years - is he a hack? Don't think so.

Even if there are people down there who are not champions - the fact they make a contribution to try and help in any way they can is fantastic. If you work around a footy club, as many people have, you soon find it is not the be all and end all. And the ones who do stay around for a while do it because they love the club.

 

[Redford]

What Re: KB - more sinned or sinned against

Hah hah...what a load of absolute crap !

So... you are saying that a guy who had grown up playing for Richmond for over 400 games, and thus should know better than anyone that Richmond is the most ruthless of all the clubs, and who had an appalling record as a coach, actually deserves to act like a sook for the next 12 years simply because somebody didn't "consult" him properly when he was axed ? Ohhhh poor KB.....

Wake up pal ! Where have you been the last umpteen years ? Whether you like it or not, that happens all the time with footy coaches irrespective of whether you are a legend or not e.g. Schimmelbusch - and even he's gone back to North ! And whilst I don't necessarily agree with that sort of treatment, it probably happens because, players act the same way with their clubs. So most people, (with the exception of KB obviously), seem to be able to accept the way it works. Fact: KB went behind the club's back on two separate occassions during his playing career, demanding releases to both St.Kilda and Collingwood when they were offering more money.

Did you read the thread properly ? The cloke and dagger comment WAS in respect to the way he was terminated. What are you talking about ?

As for "praising hacks returning to the club": Francis Bourke a hack ? Matthew Knights a hack ? Dale Weightman a hack ? Are you out of your mind !!!?

"The fact is some people need to be around the club environment for various reasons (mainly for the fact they underachieved) after their on field career is over, and other people feel comfortable that they have contributed as much as they possibly can where it counts - on field - that they are happy to sit back and watch from afar and enjoy their private lives" Another stupid retort. Sure, if KB feels that way he can do that. But to snub invitations recognising his contribution, or to not simply pop in and say hello to the players and give them a word of encouragement every now and then is just downright pathetic.

He was a great player, and I actually like him as a person too. And Richmond treated him well, otherwise he wouldn't have spent so long there. But to now be carrying on like this for so long given the reality of things can not be considered anything else but "immature."

So that's "how I know", and judging by the threads of others on this site, they seem to have (at the very least) a similar opinion, placing you in the minority.

 

[diggler]

I agree with Redford, the club should not waste energy on this silly old bitter man. He lost me bigtime when he sent his son to collect his mementos at the team of the century dinner. What a cowardly little wimp. At least Schimma had the balls to go back to North and he was shafted even bigger than KB. Four failed years is plenty of time to prove yourself, as Danny will find out pretty soon ;D

 

[admin]

Not getting into opinions or comments on KB here, but I can't help wondering why people are so obsesssed with his personal life.

Everyone has the right to live their life as they choose.

Rhett Bartlett explained a bit about his Dad on the previous thread about this.

It's none of our business if KB doesn't wish to be involved in the club. We all have a life to live the way that is right for ourself.

Imo we should remember the champion he was, and respect his right to follow the Tiges from afar.

 

[gustiger12]

Yet again I find myself agreeing with you Rosie.

Leave the decision to KB what ever his perceptions are and lets get on with the future.

By the way I think he is a legend and would love to see him back at the club, but if he chooses to stay away then I won't be losing any sleep over it.

At the end of the day it his DECISION and lets all respect that what ever it maybe. After all as this and many other forums have shown everyone is entitled to their opinion be it right or wrong.

Even a legend like KB.

 

[MC24]

I pretty much said all I had to say on the matter on the 'lost' thread. The one point I will re-state, however, is that it is entirely KB's choice whether he does or does not return to the Club.

The beef I have is that he puts forward these reasons why he chooses not to return to the Club that never seem to stand up. If he wants to stay away that's fine. Just don't treat people like they're idiots and expect them to swallow the lame reasons as to why he hasn't returned.

It's none of our business really, but if he's going to make any comments, I at least would like to think he would be up front about it, rather than these wishy washy excuses that I find offensive.

Whether KB does or does not return - the Richmond Football Club will still go on.

 

[admin]

The beef I have is that he puts forward these reasons why he chooses not to return to the Club that never seem to stand up.

Does KB actually state reasons he hasn't returned to the club? I know years ago he said he wouldn't return till a certain person has left the club, but has he said anything in recent years?
Maybe the general public and his work colleagues etc hounding him about it all the time put him on the defensive when he'd rather be left in peace to do as he chooses.

 

[MC24]

Does KB actually state reasons he hasn't returned to the club? I know years ago he said he wouldn't return till a certain person has left the club, but has he said anything in recent years?

A number of years ago, I heard Tommy Hafey say on radio that KB had a photo of all those involved in his sacking on his fridge and he was marking them off, like a serial killer, as they left the Club. And he wasn't going to return until they had all gone. Finally, they all went, but still no show by KB.

The last time I heard someone ask him the question he said it was because he chose to stay away because he didn't feel he could contribute anything to the Club and he preferred to watch from a distance. I dispute that, but it's his choice.

It seems to me that the reasons change to suit his cause. If he wants to stay away, fine, but don't treat people like they're idiots.

If he doesn't want to tell us the real reason for his stance, then say nothing.

Maybe the general public and his work colleagues etc hounding him about it all the time put him on the defensive when he'd rather be left in peace to do as he chooses.

A simple 'no comment' would be more appropriate than fumbling his way through any wishy washy ramblings.

 

[MC24]

And another thing …

He can go to every other Club's function to help them out, except if that Club happens to be Richmond.

Not one mention of Richmond's Hall of Fame was made on his programme last year. The television stations and newspapers all thought it was news worthy and 3AW even devoted the best part of an hour the following Saturday to doing interviews and replaying interviews with Hall of Fame inductees.

Sport927 is apparently a sports station, how much mention was there of Richmond's Hall of Fame on KB's programme. Zero, nothing, nought, zilch.

In fact, the following Monday, Kevin Sheedy was on the programme and did anyone on that panel have the good spirit or good will to say "Congratulations Sheeds on being inducted into Richmond's Hall of Fame".

When it was time for the Bulldog's Hall of Fame, we heard about it throughout the programme. He can take great delight in reminiscing about the team he followed growing up and talking about the Bulldog's Hall of Fame and any other Club's Hall of Fame, except if it's Richmond's Hall of Fame.

Don't play as us idiots.

 

[froars]

I'm with you MC - it is the nature of the way he has handled the situation. As you said, if he is asked why he won't come back, a simple no comment would suffice and completely end all conversation on the issue. No, he generally makes up something idiotic to say.

 

[admin]

A number of years ago, I heard Tommy Hafey say on radio that KB had a photo of all those involved in his sacking on his fridge and he was marking them off, like a serial killer, as they left the Club.  And he wasn't going to return until they had all gone.  Finally, they all went, but still no show by KB.

Maybe Tommy is at fault there for disclosing that information.  Might be true, might not be but what KB does in the privacy of his own kitchen is his business. It's a  sad case if it's true, but c'est la vie.


Anyway I don't get radio reception up here so I'd appreciate knowing the 'wishy-washy ramblings', 'changed excuses' and 'idiotic somethings' that Mc and froars mention are.

Are you hanging on to words from several years ago, or has KB recently  discussed his Richmond stance again?