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Key factors that make a premiership coach.

pahoffm

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
4
I had the great pleasure of having dinner last night with a keen football devotee, in fact, he once worked for the AFL.

Incidentally, a free plug to Kanzaman, Lebanese Restaurant in Bridge Rd, Richmond. Great food, drink & service.

Anyway, we got down to the key factors that determine the likelihood of whether a candidate for a senior AFL coaching position will win a premiership.

Heregoes:

1. Has played in an AFL/VFL premiership team.

2. Has had a senior assisting role outside of his original club.

3. Must have come from one of the 4 major bloodlines of AFL/VFL premiership success - Smith, Hafey, Kennedy or McHale.

4. Must have played in an accountable position, preferably on the back or half back line, or defensively on the ball.

5. Must be a good communicator.

There are a couple of exceptions, but if your candidate fits this criteria, then you are probably looking forward to premiership success.

How do you think these fit?

Please fill free to list any extras.
 
Rimau Junior said:
Nice post Phanto but do Smith, Hafey, Kennedy and McHale fit your factors?
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Interesting point, because my friend, who has worked in & with the AFL, tells me that these are some of the key factors used by AFL clubs when selecting candidates.

Maybe clubs are becoming too closed in their scope for selecting candidates.

The topic actually came up because my wife raised the subject of "Unleash the Geisch".
My friend responded that Geisch's appointment broke the 7 key factors in selecting a coach.

Then he made me try to guess them.

He couldn't remember the rest.
 
The McHale bloodline petered out and died a very painful death around the 1940s when McHale stopped coaching.  There has been very little success for the Collingwood push since he finished.

The Smith-Hafey bloodline is far and away the most successful.  The link betwen the two is Norm Smith and Len Smith, who was Hafey's predessessor at Richmond and set in place many of Tommy's structures before falling ill.  The number of premiership coaches that are in this group is staggering, when you consider:

Norm Smith---Ron Barassi---Denis Pagan---
Len Smith---Tom HAfey---Keven Sheedy/Mick Malthouse (indirectly through BArry Richardson and Tony Jewell) , just to name a few of them.  

Then consider Mark Williams (Sheedy), Blight (Barassi) and even Worsfold through Malthouse and Roos through Robert Walls (Barassi), and, of course the imitable Walls himself.

Kennedy----Parkin/Matthews/Jeans/Joyce.  This group is Hawthorn centric, with only Parkin and MAtthews taking the success elsewhere.  A breeding-ground for success, or a historical aberration for a couple of decades?

Your mates' comments make perfect sense but this is no guarantee of success.

The really interesting thing about all this is that the successful bloodlines come out of Melb, Collingwood, Richmond and Hawthorn.  The rest of the VFL/AFL teams have either imported their success like Essendon did with Sheedy, and Carlton and the Kangaroos did with BArassi or languished.

The real innovators were the Smith brothers at Melbourne.  Five premierships in six years.
 
Sorry, remembered another.

6. Had to have a gameplan that relied on restricting the opponents scoring opportunities.

Anyway,
Interesting to see where Neil Craig fits into all of this.
Especially with assistants in Charlie Walsh & Rick Charlesworth.

Mind you, neither Mark Williams nor Paul Roos played in premiership teams and it didn't stop them.
 
Phantom said:
Sorry, remembered another.

6. Had to have a gameplan that relied on restricting the opponents scoring opportunities.

Anyway,
Interesting to see where Neil Craig fits into all of this.
Especially with assistants in Charlie Walsh & Rick Charlesworth.

Mind you, neither Mark Williams nor Paul Roos played in premiership teams and it didn't stop them.
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I think a new one which is being proved by The new age coach as in Roos and Worsfold,

Is to be innovative. And be prepared to change.

It is becoming more apperent the game is evolving at the quickest rate it ever has.

And some of the great coaches with good pedigree are now being left behind.
 
Maybe Mark Harvey doesn't have the defensive gameplan.

Ayres and Schwab failed to deliver. Eade, although acknowledged by all as a good coach, is entering his 10th season without a flag.
 
Dean3 said:
It's all rubbish. You just have to be a good coach.
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It's all very good to say that, but if your a club looking to replace its coach like StKilda, Hawthorn or Geelong, where do you start looking?

Mind you, from what I've heard, Bomber Thompson has all of the above qualities apart from the fact that he sends people to sleep when he talks.
 
what a dumb thread

look at any professional who is elite in his desired field and there is no way you will find a common attribute or denominator between all of them. there is no guaranteed method of profiling elite guns in business or sport.
 
Lets start with the basics first, how about we have a list of players that are capable and then add your coaching criteria.
None of the coaching whizzbangs mentioned by the earlier posters would have been able to get us a flag in the last twenty years.
 
did Roos play in a premiership, ass coach outside his playing club, missed the 4 key coaches , but was defensive and communicates
So there must be something else
 
Some key ingredients

- Must be able to yell (alot)

- Enjoy pain

- Not smile too much

- Not be anyone's friend

- Definately no crying allowed

- Fold your arms and look more serious than the other guy

- Good at holding silverware above you head

- win premierships
 
Phantom said:
I had the great pleasure of having dinner last night with a keen football devotee, in fact, he once worked for the AFL.

Incidentally, a free plug to Kanzaman, Lebanese Restaurant in Bridge Rd, Richmond. Great food, drink & service.

Anyway, we got down to the key factors that determine the likelihood of whether a candidate for a senior AFL coaching position will win a premiership.

Heregoes:

1. Has played in an AFL/VFL premiership team. Not negotiable

2. Has had a senior assisting role outside of his original club. Preferably at successful club

3. Must have come from one of the 4 major bloodlines of AFL/VFL premiership success - Smith, Hafey, Kennedy or McHale. Nice to have not essential

4. Must have played in an accountable position, preferably on the back or half back line, or defensively on the ball. but not full back

5. Must be a good communicator.Cherry ripe

There are a couple of exceptions, but if your candidate fits this criteria, then you are probably looking forward to premiership success.

How do you think these fit?

Please fill free to list any extras.
Click to expand...

Great list Phanto. With my small adjustments I think we can rest assured a D Frawley look alike will never slip through the filter again.
 
Also brings up the old chestnut about the less skilled player as the better coach because he has had to figure out ways to overcome his deficiencies. Current big name coaches like Worsfold, Roos (?), Craig, Daniher, Sheedy, Malthouse would seem to fit. How would you rate coaches who were good players like Matthews etc. Were they just more determined individually to overcome problems, remembering that Lethal was always fairly slow and not hugely skilled
 
Nice musings but that is about it. The mechanics of the modern game are changing all the time. The constant push for youth is ever increasing not just in AFL. Just look how the Premier League in England is changing with the set up of Youth Academys. My team Manchester City being a good example. Only difference is that the less wealthy clubs groom these young guys and then Chelsea or Man Utd buy them when they feel that they are ripe. At least in the Afl their is still more of a chance to grow your own.

I even think that 'Terry's Premiership Clock' as illustrated on Fox Footy is just interesting musings too. The fabric of the game is changing so fast. Terry's idea centres around having certain players in certain age groups which has quite often been a factor in deciding who wins the flag due to experience. (With the Baby Bombers being an obvious exception). I wonder in the next 5 years how many relatively young sides will win flags. The Bulldogs may well be an interesting case study seeing as many seem to rate them as the next Victorian team to win a flag.
 
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