Last Nite's Game - reality check

[Pandaboy]

Watching the Grand Final replay last nite really showed how far behind we really are. The skills of Geelong and Hawthorn were impeccable last nite, in a really high quality game. No fumbling, targets hit routinely, great disposal. . . Seriously compare that to our performance on Thursday it was like watching the little league compared to the real thing. I think we have about 10 guys who don't have AFL standard skills. Now obviously we are talking about the 2 best sides in the competition by quite some margin), but just watching the game last nite, really highlighted to me just how far we need to go before we can even be competitive. I would be surprised if we get within 60 points next week.

Although our shocking skills cannot be fixed overnite, one thing that can easily be addressed is our hardness and our sheer refusal to apply pressure and tackle. I think it really just comes down to team culture. Wallace has clearly not identified this as a priority and continues to stick with this possession game (which we clearly DO NOT have the skills to execute). Having shocking skills is something that frustrates every supporter, but just our sheer lack of toughness at the ball is something that just frustrates me even more.

 

[JR8]

The cats will beat us by at least 10 goals & never getting out of 1st gear!!

 

[Tubytiger]

You make some valid points Panda - but we are not as bad as we showed against Carlscum. Thursday nights game was just one that you can write off as one of those games. We will be much more competitive next week mate.

Those players who have the absolute privelge of wearing the black and yellow guernsey need to show, starting from next week, that they deserve to be out there representing the RFC. And they will. I think there was just too much expectation going into this season on the list we have currently. We have a bloody long way to go.

Cheers and welcome aboard the PRE boards mate.

 

[Pandaboy]

Thanks Tuby. I'd been lurking on *a website not PRE* for a while, but find this forum a lot more active with posters a lot more knowledgeable.

I would really love to share your optimism about the year ahead (and obviously the only way is up), but unfortunately thrashings like the one on Thursday is just waaaaaaay too common for the club. I really don't think our list is that bad, and is definitely ahead of many clubs, however we just continue to get these kind of beatings that some teams NEVER experience. I really think it comes down to culture. Take a team like the Kangaroos for example. A team that has obvious pride in it's jumper, as no matter how outclassed, undermanned or how much of an underdog it is, you just never see 100 or so point maulings like the ones our supporters have to endure on a regular basis. I would really love to instill some of that culture and pride in the jumper into some of our boys, as I am just sick and tired of seeing performances like last Thursday.

 

[Tubytiger]

I hear your pain mate. Thursday night, well, you just cant describe to anyone, the pain i think everyone that passionately follows this club went through. And yes, it has happened pretty consistently over past years but it is what your subject line says - "reality check".

All the hype over the off season, especially after Ben coming to the club has probably over shadowed what in reality has been our consistent poor skills over a number of years. But i do have firm belief we are so much better than what was on show Thursday night. Our season needs to start next week with a much improved performance and a willingness to tackle, chase and be accountable.

 

[thisistigerland]

Good points panda. Our appalling skills cannot be fixed over night - it may not even been the players fault, as they were not the ones who asked to be recruited. If they dont have the ability, you cannot flog a dead horse. One of the pledges Wallace made from day one, was to be competitive in every game. In the Northery era (and even the early part of the Gieschen era) we were not the most talented group however, we were ferocious with our attack on the ball and we had some success. There is no excuse for not laying tackles, not chasing etc.

There are an agglomerate of reasons why our club is the whipping boy atm. Culture, lack of leaders (extroverted ones) who are mentally and physically tough etc. Having said this, I also agree that we are not that bad. I think if we played Carlton next week, we would beat them. They had a night where everything they touched turned to gold. Its way to early for the football world to wipe us for 09.

 

[23.21.159]

When people talk about players having the "absolute privilege of wearing the yellow and black", I cannot help but wonder what the hell that actually means to them (the players, that is). They are professional footballers who for the most part would have played in the AFL anyway, it was just a matter of who drafted them.

In the good old days clubs went out and recruited players directly. There was no draft. We've all heard the famous stories about how players got recruited, not only Richmond players. The GRs of this world went out and sweet-talked their Mums, pinched blokes from under other clubs' eyes, talked the players around, or in some cases just gave a bloke a chance. The point I am trying to make is that those young blokes probably felt they owed the club something.

Now, guys with a family tradition (Richo, Bowden, Raines), or those who barracked for us as a kid (Johnson) surely feel something more, but what about the rest? Maybe rookies or re-treads such as Foley or Tuck feel they owe, but how about players such as Deledio and Tambling? They were always going to play in the AFL, it was just a matter of who was woeful enough at the time to have the early draft picks in their year.

Do you think players like that feel that their God-given talent means they have an obligation to play for a basket case for the good of the sport at which they excel? I don't. Situations like this make me fear that the Deledios, Tamblings and Riewoldts of this this earth must be begging their managers to get them another gig, which will only propogate the cycle. I don't doubt Danny Meyer did this.

So I start to wonder if they made the two-year minimum that draft picks have to stay at their first club something like five ... would THAT even out the comp and give clubs like us that are perpetually cr@p a bit more of a go? I'd like to think so but then again other clubs have turned around parlous states pretty easily (e.g. Hawthorn).

Must be something in the water down at Punt Road.

 

[geoffryprettyboy]

Watching the Grand Final replay last nite really showed how far behind we really are. The skills of Geelong and Hawthorn were impeccable last nite, in a really high quality game. No fumbling, targets hit routinely, great disposal. . . Seriously compare that to our performance on Thursday it was like watching the little league compared to the real thing. I think we have about 10 guys who don't have AFL standard skills. Now obviously we are talking about the 2 best sides in the competition by quite some margin), but just watching the game last nite, really highlighted to me just how far we need to go before we can even be competitive. I would be surprised if we get within 60 points next week.

Although our shocking skills cannot be fixed overnite, one thing that can easily be addressed is our hardness and our sheer refusal to apply pressure and tackle. I think it really just comes down to team culture. Wallace has clearly not identified this as a priority and continues to stick with this possession game (which we clearly DO NOT have the skills to execute). Having shocking skills is something that frustrates every supporter, but just our sheer lack of toughness at the ball is something that just frustrates me even more.

Good post Pb. Except for a couple of years, the last 30 years has been a reality check. In time you will find out there are more than 10 players who don't have AFL standard skills.

I never said much on here last year :hihi but even when we got the silver medal for the best performing team (for the second half of the season) in the entire AFL there were many holes. The insipid performances will continue for a minimum of 5 years.

 

[davesexton]

I think the NBA has a rule that a draftee has to stay for five years before becoming a free agent, that's why i think next year there will be a huge bunfight about LeBron James trying to be lured away from Cleveland. Hard tp say though, i mean after 9 rounds of 2005 Deledio, Tambling, Meyer, Pattison etc would have surely been pretty happy when the Tigers were 7-2.

Hard to say how much genuine time is needed to give youngsters before their talent cieling becomes revealed to the club. McGuane, Hughes for example have now been at the club for 3-4 years, but as yet are not permanent fixtures in the side. Mind you, there are some Hawks and Cats who were drafted in 2005-6 who either didn't make the grade or who are still fighting to get a game. Dowler, Morton, Muston of the Hawks (injuries notwithstanding) and Djerrkera, Hogan and Laidler at Geelong have been around a while but have barely played a game. I guess though, if they have played little senior footy, perhaps their talent ceiling is still unknown.

 

[Pandaboy]

Good post Pb. Except for a couple of years, the last 30 years has been a reality check. In time you will find out there are more than 10 players who don't have AFL standard skills.

I never said much on here last year :hihi but even when we got the silver medal for the best performing team (for the second half of the season) in the entire AFL there were many holes. The insipid performances will continue for a minimum of 5 years.

Agree with you totally that these TOOTHLESS performances will continue as long as this culture continues. Yeh I was really being generous when I said that only about 10 players don't have AFL standard skills, in reality it's a LOT more than that and we all know it can't be fixed overnite. thisistigerland raised a good point, that it really is just "trying to flog a dead horse". If ya don't have the cattle, there's nothing u can do. But the thing that was most disappointing on Thursday nite was that EVERYONE was doing it. It was just like an epidemic or a disease, and the entire team had all of a sudden contracted Richmonditis. Deledio made 2 shockers, Foley couldn't hit a target all nite, Simmonds couldn't mark or kick all nite, McMahon I'd expect nothing less than 5 or 6 turnovers a game, and when your best kick Brown is kicking it straight to the opposition, you know your in trouble. What on earth are they teaching these guys during skills training???

Honestly these guys are professional footballers, and it just baffles me that our guys cannot hit a target 10 metres out under no pressure.

 

[Fighting Fury]

When people talk about players having the "absolute privilege of wearing the yellow and black", I cannot help but wonder what the hell that actually means to them (the players, that is). They are professional footballers who for the most part would have played in the AFL anyway, it was just a matter of who drafted them.

In the good old days clubs went out and recruited players directly. There was no draft. We've all heard the famous stories about how players got recruited, not only Richmond players. The GRs of this world went out and sweet-talked their Mums, pinched blokes from under other clubs' eyes, talked the players around, or in some cases just gave a bloke a chance. The point I am trying to make is that those young blokes probably felt they owed the club something.

Now, guys with a family tradition (Richo, Bowden, Raines), or those who barracked for us as a kid (Johnson) surely feel something more, but what about the rest? Maybe rookies or re-treads such as Foley or Tuck feel they owe, but how about players such as Deledio and Tambling? They were always going to play in the AFL, it was just a matter of who was woeful enough at the time to have the early draft picks in their year.

Do you think players like that feel that their God-given talent means they have an obligation to play for a basket case for the good of the sport at which they excel? I don't. Situations like this make me fear that the Deledios, Tamblings and Riewoldts of this this earth must be begging their managers to get them another gig, which will only propogate the cycle. I don't doubt Danny Meyer did this.

Couldn't agree more 23. It is us who bleed for the Yellow and Black, not the players. Why would they?

Belonging to a Club and feeling something for it occurs over a long period of time, partly through talking to the greats of the past, understanding something of the history of the Club. Has someone like Brett Delidio met Francis Bourke? or *smile* Clay? how about Matty Knights? David Cloke? Royce Hart If so, does he feel anything collegial? Like he is carrying on a tradition? I doubt it. Not to single Lids out but just use him as an example of an up-and-comer who could be revered in time as those players mentioned are.

In general players care only about the playing group. The guys they see 8 hours a day every day, the guys they work hard with, have a laugh with, the odd drink with...the esteem and respect that their teammates have for them is paramount. Of course how the coaches see them is important too (in the end this is what will pay the bills) but the motivation to strive to do well comes from not wanting to let your mates down in the thick of the battle.

To be able to look your mates in the eye is everything. What the fans think and say is immaterial. Players would think about thurs night and only the embarrassment of letting themselves down on national tv in front of 86 thousand. They would not think that they have let down their members.

 

[Bigwig]

i taped the game as well as going. today i sat down and watched te game. if there is one consolation i doubt things could go so far against us. mcguane does not usually drop uncontested marks. simmonds does, you take the good with the bad with him. but tere were other incidents like the ball coming off one our boots to give an on the full free kick goal to judd right on half time. some goals tey kicked they wouldnt kick 2 out of 10 given the chance to replicate the kick.
also some umpiring decisions hurt us. the richo tackle that should have been holding the ball. giving advantage when we had the free kick and shulz opicked it up and sprayed te kick. that should have been called back. the free to fev for chopping was soft, the tackle on richo by fev he didnt just push him forward but drove richo into the ground and landed on top of him for waite's first goal.
the kick by fev, the one he skied to an open forward line, we had garland outnumbered 3 to 1 but the bounce let him into it to hold the ball up. we had bad bounces, some bad umpiring and shocking mistakes tat we cant possibly make every week. i just dont think it could all flow tat badly against us again. in the first 15 minutes of the game we should have been 4 goals ahead but we made unbelievable mistakes tat gave carlton the lead, not just kept them in it but gave them the lead. it could have been a whole different ball game if we had have been 3 goals ahead at quarter time and not behind by 5 goals.
unfortunately i dont think tere would be enough luck in the world to get us within 10 goals of geelong next week.