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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
" Lest We Forget "
- Thread starter U2Tigers
- Start date
I know he's a Demon but it puts into perspective our concerns over our football team - I'm know I'm glad I never had to go to war:
Long, dark tunnel
Jon Anderson
April 25, 2008 12:00am
AS a kid growing up in Perth, Nathan Carroll used to wonder why his dad Ray would fly into wild rages at the drop of a hat.
He would wonder why dad would shake, break into clammy sweats, hit the booze and go off on his own for months on end.
When he came home it was the same pattern, with Ray pacing the house like a caged tiger, yearning for open space to rid himself of the claustrophobia of Vietnamese tunnels.
For 20 years Ray was only home for four weeks of the year. He worked for Telstra in the Pilbara region of Western Australia until he was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, a result of trying to defuse mines and scurrying into the black holes.
He was classified TPI (totally permanently incapacitated), meaning he is looked after in terms of travel on trams and trains or for any health problems.
At last the Government -- which told him to remove his army uniform and exit out the back way when he walked through Sydney Airport on his return to Australia in 1971 -- has done something.
In place of prestige for a young man who had fought for his country in what became a living hell were nightmares and mood swings balanced by anti-depressants.
His eldest children, sons Trent and Nathan, both of whom have played AFL football (Trent with Fremantle and West Coast, Nathan with Melbourne), knew their dad had problems.
"They would yell back at me, screaming, 'Haven't you taken your f---ing drugs today?' or 'What pills are you on now?'," Ray Carroll said yesterday.
This morning Ray and Melbourne full-back Nathan will march together in the Anzac Day march, just another step in Ray's 37-year rehabilitation.
Wanting to learn more about his father, Nathan spent a week in Vietnam two years ago retracing the steps of a man he grew up idolising.
"It helped me understand what Dad went through. And the first tunnel I went down, out flew a bat just like Dad said used to happen to him," Nathan said.
Ray Carroll flew over from his Perth home this week to ensure he could march with his son. Ray will wear his medals from Vietnam and Nathan those of his grandfather from the Battle of Britain in World War II.
They will march with pride before Ray joins 40 to 50 "Tunnel Rats" at the College Lawn Hotel in Prahran. They were a special group in the army, those given the worst job on the planet.
"The North Vietnamese would stuff their wounds with rice, then disappear down a tunnel. My job was to go down the tunnel and delouse their booby traps, carrying a torch and pistol," Carroll, 58, said.
"Bats would be hitting me in the face, and when you turned the corner, you put the torch at the top and head at the bottom, so when they shot at you they missed your head.
"I got shot at and it deafened me. I've got two hearing aids, but I don't wear them much because they ring all the time.
"We couldn't claim a kill unless we had a body, so I had to tie a rope around his leg and drag him out. I had seven months of that.
"A couple of times I got gassed down there. You would come out with a blood nose, blurry vision, vomiting, and that has affected me now."
Carroll enlisted in the army at the age of 17 in an attempt to break away from the family timber mill that provided little money for a lot of hard work.
The army was romantic for a teenager, but that romance disappeared on arrival at base camp at Nui Dat in June 1970.
He lined up and was put into 1 Field Squad, which seemed as good a place as any to be, until that night over a few beers he was told, "F---, Brute, that's a death troop".
"When I lined up in 1970 they had a lot of casualties that year and were short of field troops. From June 1969 to June 1970, 120 tunnel rats recorded 12 fatals and 36 injured, or 40 per cent," Carroll said.
"Very early a couple of blokes said to me, 'Listen, Brute, nobody gives a stuff about you here. Australia doesn't give a s---, so look after yourself, don't be a hero and get back home'."
He saw mates blown up by mines, grenades and mortars. But he has no doubt the real problems began back home.
"There are still Vietnam-related suicides, not just with veterans but with their children. Around 500 died in the line of duty and over 4000 from suicide," Ray said.
"I haven't been down the suicide track and my wife Maree has helped enormously. But it hasn't been easy."
Nathan, who will be opposed to either Jonathan Brown or Daniel Bradshaw when Melbourne takes on the Brisbane Lions at the Gabba on Sunday, would like his father and entire family, including siblings Trent and Carrissa, to one day travel to Vietnam.
His father is open to the idea, pointing to a number of vets now making the trip, but realises it will not be easy.
"A few weeks ago I got on a train in Perth and the carriage was full of Asian students. I nearly passed out, got all clammy and started sweating, so the next station I got off," Ray said.
"Maree came and picked me up. It brings out emotions. You break down, you get teary, you want to hide yourself.
"Watching Nathan play football is good for me, not that he listens to anything I say.
"When they were growing up, I was more scared of him than Trent. He is more aggressive; Trent is quiet and mellow.
"This one has a bit of s--- in him. He doesn't know when to stop."
Nathan laughs when hearing the description, saying it's never his intention to fight: "I don't go around looking for trouble, but if it happens I don't walk away. I reckon Dad would have been the same when he was young."
Long, dark tunnel
Jon Anderson
April 25, 2008 12:00am
AS a kid growing up in Perth, Nathan Carroll used to wonder why his dad Ray would fly into wild rages at the drop of a hat.
He would wonder why dad would shake, break into clammy sweats, hit the booze and go off on his own for months on end.
When he came home it was the same pattern, with Ray pacing the house like a caged tiger, yearning for open space to rid himself of the claustrophobia of Vietnamese tunnels.
For 20 years Ray was only home for four weeks of the year. He worked for Telstra in the Pilbara region of Western Australia until he was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, a result of trying to defuse mines and scurrying into the black holes.
He was classified TPI (totally permanently incapacitated), meaning he is looked after in terms of travel on trams and trains or for any health problems.
At last the Government -- which told him to remove his army uniform and exit out the back way when he walked through Sydney Airport on his return to Australia in 1971 -- has done something.
In place of prestige for a young man who had fought for his country in what became a living hell were nightmares and mood swings balanced by anti-depressants.
His eldest children, sons Trent and Nathan, both of whom have played AFL football (Trent with Fremantle and West Coast, Nathan with Melbourne), knew their dad had problems.
"They would yell back at me, screaming, 'Haven't you taken your f---ing drugs today?' or 'What pills are you on now?'," Ray Carroll said yesterday.
This morning Ray and Melbourne full-back Nathan will march together in the Anzac Day march, just another step in Ray's 37-year rehabilitation.
Wanting to learn more about his father, Nathan spent a week in Vietnam two years ago retracing the steps of a man he grew up idolising.
"It helped me understand what Dad went through. And the first tunnel I went down, out flew a bat just like Dad said used to happen to him," Nathan said.
Ray Carroll flew over from his Perth home this week to ensure he could march with his son. Ray will wear his medals from Vietnam and Nathan those of his grandfather from the Battle of Britain in World War II.
They will march with pride before Ray joins 40 to 50 "Tunnel Rats" at the College Lawn Hotel in Prahran. They were a special group in the army, those given the worst job on the planet.
"The North Vietnamese would stuff their wounds with rice, then disappear down a tunnel. My job was to go down the tunnel and delouse their booby traps, carrying a torch and pistol," Carroll, 58, said.
"Bats would be hitting me in the face, and when you turned the corner, you put the torch at the top and head at the bottom, so when they shot at you they missed your head.
"I got shot at and it deafened me. I've got two hearing aids, but I don't wear them much because they ring all the time.
"We couldn't claim a kill unless we had a body, so I had to tie a rope around his leg and drag him out. I had seven months of that.
"A couple of times I got gassed down there. You would come out with a blood nose, blurry vision, vomiting, and that has affected me now."
Carroll enlisted in the army at the age of 17 in an attempt to break away from the family timber mill that provided little money for a lot of hard work.
The army was romantic for a teenager, but that romance disappeared on arrival at base camp at Nui Dat in June 1970.
He lined up and was put into 1 Field Squad, which seemed as good a place as any to be, until that night over a few beers he was told, "F---, Brute, that's a death troop".
"When I lined up in 1970 they had a lot of casualties that year and were short of field troops. From June 1969 to June 1970, 120 tunnel rats recorded 12 fatals and 36 injured, or 40 per cent," Carroll said.
"Very early a couple of blokes said to me, 'Listen, Brute, nobody gives a stuff about you here. Australia doesn't give a s---, so look after yourself, don't be a hero and get back home'."
He saw mates blown up by mines, grenades and mortars. But he has no doubt the real problems began back home.
"There are still Vietnam-related suicides, not just with veterans but with their children. Around 500 died in the line of duty and over 4000 from suicide," Ray said.
"I haven't been down the suicide track and my wife Maree has helped enormously. But it hasn't been easy."
Nathan, who will be opposed to either Jonathan Brown or Daniel Bradshaw when Melbourne takes on the Brisbane Lions at the Gabba on Sunday, would like his father and entire family, including siblings Trent and Carrissa, to one day travel to Vietnam.
His father is open to the idea, pointing to a number of vets now making the trip, but realises it will not be easy.
"A few weeks ago I got on a train in Perth and the carriage was full of Asian students. I nearly passed out, got all clammy and started sweating, so the next station I got off," Ray said.
"Maree came and picked me up. It brings out emotions. You break down, you get teary, you want to hide yourself.
"Watching Nathan play football is good for me, not that he listens to anything I say.
"When they were growing up, I was more scared of him than Trent. He is more aggressive; Trent is quiet and mellow.
"This one has a bit of s--- in him. He doesn't know when to stop."
Nathan laughs when hearing the description, saying it's never his intention to fight: "I don't go around looking for trouble, but if it happens I don't walk away. I reckon Dad would have been the same when he was young."
ANZAC day is special.
the day itself, without the game, is special.
my favourite part of today is the amazing stories also the pride i feel when i think of courage these young kids showed when they were ordered to go "over the top".
i was at the dawn service at Anzac Cove in 2000 and one thing sticks in my mind.
at the end of her speech about the sacrafices of the many young soldiers, Helen Clark implored each and every Australian and New Zealander "when you leave here today, go away and live your life for those who never had the opportunity to"
to many of us there, that was such a powerful moment if not the most patriotic i've ever felt. there were too many dry eyes around thats for sure.
another thing you learn alot about when your over there is the "other side" of the story. The Turkish Story.
you soon realise the greatness of the turkish leader Kemal Ataturk. What an amazing guy. the turks had nothing against us and were expecting to fight the brits but realised that once again the brits sent in their empire states to do all their dirty work. so in essence the turks had alot of respect for us and that grew bigger as the war drew on.
they were just protecting their country from becoming part of WWI as the dardenelles and the sea of marmara were such a strategic position to supply the eastern front through the back of russia during the summer months.
they never wanted it but had no choice when the english rocked up on their shores.
its amazing that two countries Australia and NZ who are so parochial with each other when it comes to sport and other competitive achievements but on a day like today we walk hand in hand, together just like 1915.
im a damn proud man today and i hope you all are too.
the day itself, without the game, is special.
my favourite part of today is the amazing stories also the pride i feel when i think of courage these young kids showed when they were ordered to go "over the top".
i was at the dawn service at Anzac Cove in 2000 and one thing sticks in my mind.
at the end of her speech about the sacrafices of the many young soldiers, Helen Clark implored each and every Australian and New Zealander "when you leave here today, go away and live your life for those who never had the opportunity to"
to many of us there, that was such a powerful moment if not the most patriotic i've ever felt. there were too many dry eyes around thats for sure.
another thing you learn alot about when your over there is the "other side" of the story. The Turkish Story.
you soon realise the greatness of the turkish leader Kemal Ataturk. What an amazing guy. the turks had nothing against us and were expecting to fight the brits but realised that once again the brits sent in their empire states to do all their dirty work. so in essence the turks had alot of respect for us and that grew bigger as the war drew on.
they were just protecting their country from becoming part of WWI as the dardenelles and the sea of marmara were such a strategic position to supply the eastern front through the back of russia during the summer months.
they never wanted it but had no choice when the english rocked up on their shores.
its amazing that two countries Australia and NZ who are so parochial with each other when it comes to sport and other competitive achievements but on a day like today we walk hand in hand, together just like 1915.
im a damn proud man today and i hope you all are too.
That gave me goosebumps blx. So many sacrifices made for us to have the fortunate life we do. I feel blessed to have been born in Australia and will forever respect and appreciate those who gave so much for us.
There have been some amazing stories on talk-back radio this week. They make me feel so emotional, inspired and proud.
On a related note the war Memorial in Canberra are trying to collect a photo of every Australian soldier who sacrificed their life in war. If anyone has any photos in their family treasures that could be copied I'm sure they'd appreciate being contacted.
There have been some amazing stories on talk-back radio this week. They make me feel so emotional, inspired and proud.
On a related note the war Memorial in Canberra are trying to collect a photo of every Australian soldier who sacrificed their life in war. If anyone has any photos in their family treasures that could be copied I'm sure they'd appreciate being contacted.
