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Let us get it into perspective.

  • Thread starter Thread starter gold1
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gold1

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We can look at statistics;look at the coach;look at the recruiting;all of that.But people look at our player list and you will see that there are 8 players with 100 game experience playing against the demons.Couple this with the current premier Geelong who have 14 players playing tommorrow.Furthermore they have at least 8 more coming up to their 100th game soon.We have three.Please refer to the premiership sides of the last twenty years,even longer and you will notice that the playing group has a large number of 100 plus game experience:and they have played together as a group;not draftpicked,but nurtured to achieve the flag.Playing together for a long time is a major factor to success IMO.
 
gold1 said:
We can look at statistics;look at the coach;look at the recruiting;all of that.But people look at our player list and you will see that there are 8 players with 100 game experience playing against the demons.Couple this with the current premier Geelong who have 14 players playing tommorrow.Furthermore they have at least 8 more coming up to their 100th game soon.We have three.Please refer to the premiership sides of the last twenty years,even longer and you will notice that the playing group has a large number of 100 plus game experience:and they have played together as a group;not draftpicked,but nurtured to achieve the flag.Playing together for a long time is a major factor to success IMO.
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Pretty simple really, we've got a squad of kids coming and some older players to show them the ropes.
I think that this is the core of what Wallet and Miller are trying to build for us at the moment.
Forget about most of the players that are over 24y.o. They are there to hold things together for the moment. It's about building a squad of players that grow up playing together with a steady progression of young kids coming through each year to complement the list structure once it has been built.
For over twenty years we have chopped, patched and changed around without setting a proper base and building steadily with obvious results.
Every side that has had a sustained period of competitiveness at the upper half of the ladder has done this. It's also a prime reason why some of the sides that have had a successful period have been able to bounce back very quickly from a refreshment of their playing list.
They've always retained an overlapping core of experienced senior players that have developed together, been competitive together and mainly been coached together by the same coaching group.
 
TigerMasochist said:
Pretty simple really, we've got a squad of kids coming and some older players to show them the ropes.
I think that this is the core of what Wallet and Miller are trying to build for us at the moment.
Forget about most of the players that are over 24y.o. They are there to hold things together for the moment. It's about building a squad of players that grow up playing together with a steady progression of young kids coming through each year to complement the list structure once it has been built.
For over twenty years we have chopped, patched and changed around without setting a proper base and building steadily with obvious results.
Every side that has had a sustained period of competitiveness at the upper half of the ladder has done this. It's also a prime reason why some of the sides that have had a successful period have been able to bounce back very quickly from a refreshment of their playing list.
They've always retained an overlapping core of experienced senior players that have developed together, been competitive together and mainly been coached together by the same coaching group.
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thats all well and good. i think nearly everyone has expected lots of kids to be drafted and bought thru together. thats what ive been scraming for for yrs.
its the way we go about getting these kids the type of [player and the way we look after the list that has people jumping.
 
the claw said:
thats all well and good. i think nearly everyone has expected lots of kids to be drafted and bought thru together. thats what ive been scraming for for yrs.
its the way we go about getting these kids the type of [player and the way we look after the list that has people jumping.
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Type of player is something the coach will survive or swing on. It's strange but some claimed to be knowledgable people cry about taking KPP first as they take longer to develop and then getting the smaller mids to supply them. Dawkthorn did the opposite to this and look where they are at the moment. As their older mids go they can find multitudes of mids easily to supplement their list and will have their existing KPP for another ten years.
Question for ya Claw, forgive me if I've bundled you wrongly here, but!
Aren't you one, among others that bangs on about how West Coast and Sydney seem to be able to just put kids away in the WAFL or whatever side Sydney plays as their magoos. They learn their craft and the after two or three years development just step into the senior side ready made. Apart from kids like Lids or Cotch etc. that are just about ready made isn't looking after the kids properly giving them gametime at Coburg in the positions you want them to play and letting them develop without senior AFL pressure what it's all about. Get thirty odd games of adult footy into them and let them harden their bodies and skills before they have to perform at AFL.
As for how we get the kids, we use the draft, same as everyone else. Could we have done it better? Sure same as everyone else. Should Plough have walked in and whacked guys like Richo and Bowden, probably our only senior players that had any value when he arrived as Clarko did when he went to Dawkthorn?
These guys have generational currency as Plough stated in todays Hun, probably similar at Richmond as the Ablett name at Geelong.
If we chop off guys like Richo and Bowden or don't give a chance to the sons of like Roach or Raines there would be hell to pay same as there would be for Geelong if they didn't bother with Gary jr. and Nathan, or Dawkthorn with the Tucks or a young Paul Hudson. These kids might not always work out but supporters follow clubs for long enough to see generations flow through. Clarko didn't have this problem with Hay and Thompson or Everitt when he traded them off for early picks.
 
gold1 said:
We can look at statistics;look at the coach;look at the recruiting;all of that.But people look at our player list and you will see that there are 8 players with 100 game experience playing against the demons.Couple this with the current premier Geelong who have 14 players playing tommorrow.Furthermore they have at least 8 more coming up to their 100th game soon.We have three.Please refer to the premiership sides of the last twenty years,even longer and you will notice that the playing group has a large number of 100 plus game experience:and they have played together as a group;not draftpicked,but nurtured to achieve the flag.Playing together for a long time is a major factor to success IMO.
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Tell that to Freo ;)
 
gold1 said:
We can look at statistics;look at the coach;look at the recruiting;all of that.But people look at our player list and you will see that there are 8 players with 100 game experience playing against the demons.Couple this with the current premier Geelong who have 14 players playing tommorrow.Furthermore they have at least 8 more coming up to their 100th game soon.We have three.Please refer to the premiership sides of the last twenty years,even longer and you will notice that the playing group has a large number of 100 plus game experience:and they have played together as a group;not draftpicked,but nurtured to achieve the flag.Playing together for a long time is a major factor to success IMO.
Click to expand...

hmmm, how about looking at the "Enter" key every now and again ;D
 
I think that is what we are trying to achieve at Coburg, have the young guys play together for a while, then have them come in together in the seniors and play 100 games together.

All these things take time.
 
TigerMasochist said:
Type of player is something the coach will survive or swing on. It's strange but some claimed to be knowledgable people cry about taking KPP first as they take longer to develop and then getting the smaller mids to supply them. Dawkthorn did the opposite to this and look where they are at the moment. As their older mids go they can find multitudes of mids easily to supplement their list and will have their existing KPP for another ten years.
Question for ya Claw, forgive me if I've bundled you wrongly here, but!
Aren't you one, among others that bangs on about how West Coast and Sydney seem to be able to just put kids away in the WAFL or whatever side Sydney plays as their magoos. They learn their craft and the after two or three years development just step into the senior side ready made. Apart from kids like Lids or Cotch etc. that are just about ready made isn't looking after the kids properly giving them gametime at Coburg in the positions you want them to play and letting them develop without senior AFL pressure what it's all about. Get thirty odd games of adult footy into them and let them harden their bodies and skills before they have to perform at AFL.
As for how we get the kids, we use the draft, same as everyone else. Could we have done it better? Sure same as everyone else. Should Plough have walked in and whacked guys like Richo and Bowden, probably our only senior players that had any value when he arrived as Clarko did when he went to Dawkthorn?
These guys have generational currency as Plough stated in todays Hun, probably similar at Richmond as the Ablett name at Geelong.
If we chop off guys like Richo and Bowden or don't give a chance to the sons of like Roach or Raines there would be hell to pay same as there would be for Geelong if they didn't bother with Gary jr. and Nathan, or Dawkthorn with the Tucks or a young Paul Hudson. These kids might not always work out but supporters follow clubs for long enough to see generations flow through. Clarko didn't have this problem with Hay and Thompson or Everitt when he traded them off for early picks.
Click to expand...
i haave no doubt hawthorn are in front of where they thought they would be. mainly because of their talls. they have just 4 talls left from 04 boyle croad campbell and dawson. when you look at their list they had no choice but target talls. they also bit the bullet hard they got rid of all talls they thought had no future.
imo they have sped their tall development up by useing plenty of early picks on their talls. because of this they have not had to overload the list with talls.

10 of the talls on their list are either first or second round picks.they have 4 rookie talls that includes 2 ruckmen mcentee and campbell. of the rest their lowest tall pick is boyle at 51. they have invested heavily in talls the last 4 drafts.
but i agrre in a way hawthorn had the nucleus of their mids onballers in place first. lucky for them most of the senior ones are still young enough and most of the others have been drafted the same time as their talls. hawthorns last draft clearly shows they are thru the tall drafting period and are now targeting smaller players.

i have always advocated having depth in kpps and ruckmen. to get good ones and get depth you go about in several ways.
1 you invest heavily with early picks. like hawthorn.
2 you invest sparingly with early picks but load up with lots of talls useing mid to late picks and the rookie draft.like carlton. and like a lot of clubs.
3 you use a combination of both like wce.
our trouble is i dont think we have done any of these things.
any way i have to get of i will come back to this if i remember.
 
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