Letter to FJ

[St Kevin]

They've got Grant, Bonty, Crameri, Redpath, Stringer, Jones.

Williams and Roughy could be used as a forward.

Tom Campbell and Cordy as 200cm rucks....why more?

Williams has retired.

Grant (especially) and Jones are very inconsistent. Grant more of a flanker than a key position player.

Bonty will eventually graduate to the midfield.

Redpath is still relatively unproven.

Stringer and Crameri have both been good in patches but are probably better as 2nd or 3rd options.

Cordy/Campbell can't get games in a side that has some very dodgy key forwards/backs.

Say what you want about TV but he's better right now than most of those guys listed as a forward and probably has more scope for improvement.

He's ahead of Campbell, Cordy, Grant, Jones and Redpath easily. He'd walk into the Doggies best 22, and would probably walk into quite a few teams best 22s tbh.

 

[TigerForce]

Williams has retired.

Grant (especially) and Jones are very inconsistent. Grant more of a flanker than a key position player.

Bonty will eventually graduate to the midfield.

Redpath is still relatively unproven.

Stringer and Crameri have both been good in patches but are probably better as 2nd or 3rd options.

Cordy/Campbell can't get games in a side that has some very dodgy key forwards/backs.

Say what you want about TV but he's better right now than most of those guys listed as a forward and probably has more scope for improvement.

He's ahead of Campbell, Cordy, Grant, Jones and Redpath easily. He'd walk into the Doggies best 22, and would probably walk into quite a few teams best 22s tbh.

Must've missed on Williams retiring. When was that?

I'd say Vickery is as much unproven as the ones you've mentioned, however, he's a favourite within the club and won't be traded.

 

[Scoop]

They've got Grant, Bonty, Crameri, Redpath, Stringer, Jones.

Williams and Roughy could be used as a forward.

Tom Campbell and Cordy as 200cm rucks....why more?

Let's cut this list up.

Grant -193cm 82kg been on the list 7 years. Hasn't made the grade.
Bonty- Drafted as onballer, will never be a key forward. May pinch hit forward but won't be a target.
Crameri- 189cm, 87kg. Perfect third forward. But paid like a first 700k. But still was the right move getting him.
Redpath- Rookie list, good size, deserves more time but looks a workhorse.
Stringer- 192, 91. Perfect second forward. Shows Pavlich like ability. Definite keeper.
Jones - 198cm 98 Been in the system long enough. Dropped for a raw rookie in Redpath.
Williams- retired.
Roughead- Full back. Has played key back for last 18 months, not a forward.

Campbell & Cody rucks only.

I'd suggest that quality talls are in order. And quickly.

 

[TigerForce]

Let's cut this list up.

Grant -193cm 82kg been on the list 7 years. Hasn't made the grade.
Bonty- Drafted as onballer, will never be a key forward. May pinch hit forward but won't be a target.
Crameri- 189cm, 87kg. Perfect third forward. But paid like a first 700k. But still was the right move getting him.
Redpath- Rookie list, good size, deserves more time but looks a workhorse.
Stringer- 192, 91. Perfect second forward. Shows Pavlich like ability. Definite keeper.
Jones - 198cm 98 Been in the system long enough. Dropped for a raw rookie in Redpath.
Williams- retired.
Roughead- Full back. Has played key back for last 18 months, not a forward.

Campbell & Cody rucks only.

I'd suggest that quality talls are in order. And quickly.

On that list, Jones, Williams and Grant look like the only definite cuts, but it's up to them to decide on development. They've got the two 200cm rucks, why bring in a third in Vickery....who is seen as a ruck more than a forward isn't he?

Wouldn't the Doos need someone like Vickery more than the Dogs which gives us a higher pick?

 

[Tigertool]

On that list, Jones, Williams and Grant look like the only definite cuts, but it's up to

You'd think so, but the Dogs threw him a 2 year deal last year. Dumb.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Must've missed on Williams retiring. When was that?

Williams pulled the pin last week. Too many injuries. He was a high draft pick too.

 

[Carter]

Reckon we are in a better position this year, the Dogs are on the up, momentum surging them forward. The only possible Melbourne side to compete with GWS and GC, blah, blah, blah. Results showing they are not far away. But they are desperate for a key forward 40-50 a year. Jake Stringer & Stewart Crameri can be that secondary line of mobile targets but they need a key target. And they need to come into the fold right away so the group can grow together. Forwards take longer so Vickery being slightly older then the core group of mids is a perfect fit. The Dogs will play themselves out of contention for one of the key forwards from this draft if they continue this run of form. But they might sneak into that bottom five area that gives them access to one of the left over talls but that would be a risk. I reckon Lions, Blues go tall for sure. That leaves one of Peter Wright , Patrick McCartin & Sam Durdin left. If Frawley leaves Melbourne they definitely go tall. Even if he stays they need a key forward to replace Mitch Clark. That leaves the Dogs adding another gun mid and rolling it over for another year or making a deal. Vickery has some value. He is better then any tall they have right now by a long way. He may finish off the year averaging two a week but structurally he makes them so much better.

Maybe to cut that off they go for Ty Vickery and trade pick 6. Or give back Tom Campbell and their 2nd pick. Or Nathan Hrovat and their second pick. What ever.

And I don't mind keeping Vickery, lot to work, heap of time on his side but it just depends on what is offered the other way.

Yep, right trade and where do I sign.

We have McBean to come. Plus one of Griff and Elton as smoky.

Also, I think McDonagh will be a very nice hit up player in the forward 50 as fourth leading option.

 

[SAF]

Williams pulled the pin last week. Too many injuries. He was a high draft pick too.

The pick directly after Buddy.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

The pick directly after Buddy.

Yeah, and the Hawks got Lewis at 7 and people still bag us for that draft, no one ever says anything about the Dogs, who used 3 and 6 on Griffen and Williams. I remember Leigh Mathews at the time being adamant that there was no way he'd gamble a pick that high on Williams, who I believe was a rugby convert.

 

[Tigertough1974]

Everything ive heard and read says this is the mother of all drafts..

For someone like Scoop who seems to take a very keen interest in TAC and has a good understanding of the young players the question is;

How deep is this draft, i know its not an exact science and clubs will get it wrong at times, but where do you think the 100+ game player will stop, pick 20, pick 40?

Its a silly question in some respects but i also think clubs ask themselves such questions and if they can get it right they can then ensure they have the picks to cover their beliefs

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Everything ive heard and read says this is the mother of all drafts..

For someone like Scoop who seems to take a very keen interest in TAC and has a good understanding of the young players the question is;

How deep is this draft, i know its not an exact science and clubs will get it wrong at times, but where do you think the 100+ game player will stop, pick 20, pick 40?

Its a silly question in some respects but i also think clubs ask themselves such questions and if they can get it right they can then ensure they have the picks to cover their beliefs

I think you're right tt74. The usual suspects aren't even coming out and saying that it's a shallow draft and talking up the next one as often seems to happen.

 

[Scoop]

Reckon we are in a better position this year, the Dogs are on the up, momentum surging them forward. The only possible Melbourne side to compete with GWS and GC, blah, blah, blah. Results showing they are not far away. But they are desperate for a key forward 40-50 a year. Jake Stringer & Stewart Crameri can be that secondary line of mobile targets but they need a key target. And they need to come into the fold right away so the group can grow together. Forwards take longer so Vickery being slightly older then the core group of mids is a perfect fit. The Dogs will play themselves out of contention for one of the key forwards from this draft if they continue this run of form. But they might sneak into that bottom five area that gives them access to one of the left over talls but that would be a risk. I reckon Lions, Blues go tall for sure. That leaves one of Peter Wright , Patrick McCartin & Sam Durdin left. If Frawley leaves Melbourne they definitely go tall. Even if he stays they need a key forward to replace Mitch Clark. That leaves the Dogs adding another gun mid and rolling it over for another year or making a deal. Vickery has some value. He is better then any tall they have right now by a long way. He may finish off the year averaging two a week but structurally he makes them so much better.

Maybe to cut that off they go for Ty Vickery and trade pick 6. Or give back Tom Campbell and their 2nd pick. Or Nathan Hrovat and their second pick. What ever.

And I don't mind keeping Vickery, lot to work, heap of time on his side but it just depends on what is offered the other way.

Just further on this, James Frawley has put off contract talks to the end of the year. He is gone IMO.

That would give Melbourne two picks inside the first five & frees up cap space. If I was Paul Roos, I'd have one foot in Frawley's backside and be pushing him out the door. If this scenario plays out, it changes the entire scope of the draft. The Dees could look to trade one of the picks for ready made players, take two of the KP's and set there key backs up for the next ten years or take one mid and a tall. Either way, it puts more doubt into the Dogs strategy. If a team trades into the top 5, it will be to get one of the top end key position player. Don't be surprised to see the Dogs, start to put blokes into surgery early or experiment the last five weeks.

Suddenly Ty Vickery for the Dogs first pick isn't such a bad deal. If that happens, maybe two top 10 picks to GWS for a Boyd or a Cameron isn't a pipedream.

It's still all hot air but these are the types of discussions that will be going on in the list management meetings.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

I'm not knocking this, but if you need to build depth wouldn't you rather have two top 10 players rather than trade two for one? Or like, Geelong, trade one pick for two picks a little later?

 

[Scoop]

I'm not knocking this, but if you need to build depth wouldn't you rather have two top 10 players rather than trade two for one? Or like, Geelong, trade one pick for two picks a little later?

These are all valid questions TBH. Are we better with Angus Brayshaw & Paul Ahern then Jermey Cameron? We would be better off with Jarrod Pickett, Peter Bampton, Cody Ellis or Liam Duggan (three picks in the first 30 ) ? Are we better off with Ty Vickery, Paul Ahern and Peter Bampton? Does Jermey Cameron make us a top six side? Are we that close? Is it two teams then a blanket over the next 12 and one move can slide you into the top four?

I don't have the answers TBH but I would hope these strategies are being thrown around. If you trade Ty you need a replacement. That is for sure. If you make the deal, you want to make sure you get a key forward back.

 

[TigerForce]

Forget it SCOOP, Vickery won't be traded. You know what we're like. Griffo is more the trade target for a KP-CHF.

 

[Ghost of 29]

Best available mids please.

Skills
Height - 186cm +
Speed or running ability

 

[TigerMasochist]

Let's cut this list up.


Crameri- 189cm, 87kg. Perfect third forward. But paid like a first 700k.

Wow! Where did you pluck 700 from Scooper? Comments I heard n read were more along the lines of four / four n a half over three years.

 

[Scoop]

Wow! Where did you pluck 700 from Scooper? Comments I heard n read were more along the lines of four / four n a half over three years.

I think your right in terms of what the average term of the contract is but I know the first year was heavily loaded to get the deal done. 1.8 mill for four years but 650-700 upfront. Smart use of the cap by the Dogs, need to have plenty in reserve for the young pups.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

If you trade Ty you need a replacement. That is for sure. If you make the deal, you want to make sure you get a key forward back.

It depends on what they see TV's role. How many years does Ivan have as a legitimate No. 1 ruck? With Champson failing to meet requirements, is TV the next No. 1 ruck?

Beanie should be able to cover TV's absence up forward, but then there's CHF. It's hard to see Griff or Elton making it on current form.

And we probably need to start looking for Jack's replacement. They take a while to develop, and Jack's lack of athleticism will become a liability before he hits 30 I suspect. Which is when this year's crop of talls will start hitting their straps.

 

[SAF]

I reckon you are dreaming if you think either Dees or Dogs would give up their first round pick for Vickery, the stuff of pure fantasy. They'd be much more likely to go after one of the embarrassment of riches at GWS - who'd welcome another top 5 pick when they'll probably end up with pick 2 as well.