Lockett v Dunstall | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Lockett v Dunstall

Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
10,710
1,278
plugger was deceptively athletic.

Im not saying he was any Nick Riewoldt, but within the 50m arc, he could motor and turn.

plugger was a brute.

Nearly came to the tigers.

for some reason, I always put dunstall and Lloyd in the same basket. undisputed champions, who were a bit boring to watch, and benefitted from the midfield service.

back on Cam Mooney, yeah hes one of the most fraudulent 'greats' of all time.

wouldn't get a game in our current line up. about as good as Brody Mihocheck
Agree on Plugger; he was the best. Certainly as a dedicated full forward. Amazing footballer. The Richmond link is interesting. It was at the end of the 94 season. My memory is that he nominated Richmond as his preferred club but the Saints wanted our up and coming star Richo to be included in the deal and we rightfully refused. Of course the AFL was pretty keen to get Plugger to Sydney which didn't help. We had a great season in 95 making the PF after Richo's season was ended in round 9 and with Stephen Jurica and Stuart Edwards as our key forwards. What could have been with Plugger at FF:(

Reckon you're selling Dunstall short though ezy on the Lloyd comparison. Dunstall was a superstar and Lloyd not fit to carry his bags.

Mooney was one of the most overrated players I've ever seen. No chance he gets a game in our side today; he'd struggle to get one in our VFL side.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
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Agree on Plugger; he was the best. Certainly as a dedicated full forward. Amazing footballer. The Richmond link is interesting. It was at the end of the 94 season. My memory is that he nominated Richmond as his preferred club but the Saints wanted our up and coming star Richo to be included in the deal and we rightfully refused. Of course the AFL was pretty keen to get Plugger to Sydney which didn't help. We had a great season in 95 making the PF after Richo's season was ended in round 9 and with Stephen Jurica and Stuart Edwards as our key forwards. What could have been with Plugger at FF:(
I heard Benny G himself say if Plugger came to Richmond he (Benny) would’ve been at St Kilda.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
36,247
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Plugger wanted to come to Richmond. Nearly did until the AFL intervened.

That's makes Plugger a better bloke than Duntsall
 
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Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
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I heard Benny G himself say if Plugger came to Richmond he (Benny) would’ve been at St Kilda.
Wasn't aware of that Tim. With all due respect to Benny and the amazing job he has done over the past decade plus at Richmond I could have worn that. In Plugger out Benny may just have won us a flag.

That said we don't know what the other aspects to the deal might have been.
 
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Tazzytiger

Tiger Cub
Mar 1, 2008
36
10
It's all conjecture. Dunstall was a superstar no question, but he came into a side in the middle of its seven grand finals in a row. Arguably the best team of my time, maybe ever. Champions on every line. Goals were shared more, sure, but there were a stack more opportunities.

St Kilda won 15 games - total - in Lockett's first four seasons. In his second year, aged 18, he kicked 77 goals from 20 games in a side that won 5 games. The next year he kicked 79 from 21 in a team that won 3. He turned a State of Origin game as a teen after being thrown in the ruck at half time. He kicked a ton and won the Brownlow at 21. In 1989, he was on target to smash Pratt's and Hudson's season record before a knee(?) ended his year on 78 goals from 11 games.

Yeah, he kicked a high proportion of his team's goals, because until Loewe came along, they had no one else. I remember him kicking 12 of 14 in a side that lost by 10 goals. He kicked 10.7 (out of 13.18) with Silvagni hanging off him one day (Lockett 1 free for, 8 against!) and Robert Walls said he didn't dare shift SOS or Plugger would have kicked 20. He still lifted the Saints to a 4-point win.

He was unstoppable at his best. Bigger than Dunstall, stronger, just as quick, at least as good a mark, better kick, and much meaner. I rate him better than Carey.


Richo's accuracy looks better because they don't take out-on-the-fulls into account.


That's the argument people put forward to rate Bill Russell above Wilt Chamberlain. It's nonsense. Jake Stringer has more flags than Gary Ablett Sr.
My point was more about the fact that if a team becomes too focused on one player they may kick less goals in total. Plugger was by far the best full forward in my opinion but Dunstall was a complete team person. Dunstall played his team role to perfection. Both were fantastic full forwards
 
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Tigers of Old

Proud of our Club.
Jul 26, 2004
65,259
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In any era Plugger is the best player I've ever seen Ezy so it's no real argument from me.
He was an absolute beast. Acceleration off the mark & strength made him unstoppable. Also the best kick for goal in the game.

That said whilst he had a pretty vanilla highlight reel, I just believe Dunstall was a more team oriented player hence why he'd be better today.
Goals aside, I'd like to see the goal assist numbers for each player to give a more rounded assessment. Unfortunately AFL tables don't have that data so it's just a hunch. I do remember JD giving off many goals when he played. Plugger not so much.
AFL tables also have Dunstall averaging more marks, tackles & possessions than Plugger. I think his work rate at ground level was higher.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
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Wasn't aware of that Tim. With all due respect to Benny and the amazing job he has done over the past decade plus at Richmond I could have worn that. In Plugger out Benny may just have won us a flag.

That said we don't know what the other aspects to the deal might have been.
True.
 

taztiger4

Shovelheads- Keeping hipsters off Harley's
Jul 13, 2005
5,010
1,093
Richmond Victoria
Looking at the top 20 goal kickers of all time, if I had to rate them , I would go

1.Peter Hudson for his average goals per game , 5.64 nearly 1 goal a game better than Lockett who is 2nd
2.Skinny Tutus, said it before this bloke doesn't get the kudos he deserves
3. Mathews, a pig of a man but brilliant
4.Lockett , Coventry & Dunstall for the shear weight of goals
 
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Streak

Tiger Legend
Aug 31, 2007
34,309
440
Western Australia
1.Peter Hudson for his average goals per game , 5.64 nearly 1 goal a game better than Lockett who is 2nd
Have always thought though that goals per game on average is a pretty poor statistic. It is a shame we can't, but it would be interesting if we could look at goals per Inside 50 count. That would level the field for the blokes who played in better teams.

I could be wrong, but I reckon Plugger would have Hudson on that measure.

Does anyone have the stats on Pluggers goal kicking at St Kilda compared to his time at Sydney?
 

zippadeee

Tiger Legend
Oct 8, 2004
28,302
2,618
My choice is easy,
lockett by the length of the Flemington straight.
I would've kicked goals for Hawthorn during the 80's.
 

zippadeee

Tiger Legend
Oct 8, 2004
28,302
2,618
Time to drag this one out again...


That's was the deal by the next afternoon The AFL had him going to Sydney.
We got screwed.
Similiar story to Earl Spalding agreeing to come to us and then Carlton getting him.
We were keen on lynch from Fitzroy but he went to Brisbane for 10 years.
When did Brisbane have 1 million dollars to give away in 1995?
 

zippadeee

Tiger Legend
Oct 8, 2004
28,302
2,618
St Kilda 183 games, 898 goals, 4.91 goals per game
Sydney 98 games, 462 goals, 4.71 goals per game
When he went to Sydney they were shittful.
Us of the late 2000's.
In 2 years they were in a GF
 

Al Bundy

Premiers 2017 ! Premiers 2019 ! 2020 B2B? Go Tiges
Aug 27, 2003
6,586
179
RFC
Off memory St K wanted 5 players in return.
Gales brothers, Daffy, Campbell, Richo maybe Broderick (mix of these). RFC offered 2nd tier players only with 1 on that list, wasnt sure, so on above B Gale was 1?!
What they got from Syd was sweet F all,unreal joke the AFL intervention. Well in the end a big marque player doesnt always win u a premiership (Syd: Lockett, Franklin) but sometimes it does as seen in recent times, for example:
T Lynch to RFC proved invauble in '19. Saw it as payback karma :). Stuck it right up all of 'em, the whole league as far as Im concerned!
 
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Ossie

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 15, 2012
541
108
Plugger originally chose Richmond because his grandfather was a Tigers supporter. True story, heard it from Plugger himself.
That's a good snippet Streak. Another connection was that Swooper Northey knew Plugger's Dad (who was the original Plugger in the family) from their Ballarat footy days.
When Plugger chose the Tigers, the Saints wanted (I think that it was 2 of these players) Wayne Campbell, Benny G and Stu Maxfield plus draft picks. The Tigers baulked at this, the AFL were working with the Saints to convince them to take the Swans offer. When you look at the Swans deal in hindsight, it wasn't great for the Saints (the deal also involved the Hawks).
The Saints received pick 5 (Joel Smith, 58 games for the Saints, had a bad knee injury and played most of his good footy with the Hawks), pick 13 (Chris Hemley, 1 game for the Saints), plus Robert Neil (23 games for the Saints), Glenn Nugent (11 games for the Saints) and Josh Kitchen (3 games for the Saints).
Having said that, the Saints made a Grand Final in their third Plugger-less season and the Swans made the GF in Plugger's second year.
I have quite often thought how awesome it would have been to have Plugger and Richo in the same forward line. In my dreams, I had Plugger as the deep option, with Richo roaming up to the wings and back. Alas, it remained a dream!
 
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zippadeee

Tiger Legend
Oct 8, 2004
28,302
2,618
That's a good snippet Streak. Another connection was that Swooper Northey knew Plugger's Dad (who was the original Plugger in the family) from their Ballarat footy days.
When Plugger chose the Tigers, the Saints wanted (I think that it was 2 of these players) Wayne Campbell, Benny G and Stu Maxfield plus draft picks. The Tigers baulked at this, the AFL were working with the Saints to convince them to take the Swans offer. When you look at the Swans deal in hindsight, it wasn't great for the Saints (the deal also involved the Hawks).
The Saints received pick 5 (Joel Smith, 58 games for the Saints, had a bad knee injury and played most of his good footy with the Hawks), pick 13 (Chris Hemley, 1 game for the Saints), plus Robert Neil (23 games for the Saints), Glenn Nugent (11 games for the Saints) and Josh Kitchen (3 games for the Saints).
Having said that, the Saints made a Grand Final in their third Plugger-less season and the Swans made the GF in Plugger's second year.
I have quite often thought how awesome it would have been to have Plugger and Richo in the same forward line. In my dreams, I had Plugger as the deep option, with Richo roaming up to the wings and back. Alas, it remained a dream!
I thought they wanted Michael Gale and Chris Naish.
What they got from Sydney was trash.
They went almost 2 years without a win. Their list was useless
 

Ossie

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 15, 2012
541
108
I thought they wanted Michael Gale and Chris Naish.
What they got from Sydney was trash.
They went almost 2 years without a win. Their list was useless
Butch, Naishy and Daffy I think were also thrown around as possible options after the first names were rejected.