Low draft picks on KPP - pffft!

[blaisee]

I think TW has earmaked his spine for 2008 and beyond and is not deperate for KPP .  I'd say he has Thursfield as the quick tight checking tall with good closing speed and good footy head and efficient disposal. He hasPolak as the contested tall to play on the gorillas, perhaps to altenate with Schulz when we want more run out of CHB.  Also playing at CHB can get a struggling forward into the game and vice versa with switching polak to CHF.  Schulz sould be the CHF providing grunt, one percenters and good grab and kick to boot. Hughes is earmarked as the leading forward with the great finishing skills ala Fevola or LLoyd - will need to work on the physical side of his game.  With that prospective spine of two 22 year olds and two 20 year olds,  TW would be looking at complementing it with speed skill and footy nous. I think that we have each other position covered by one quality candidate and sometimes two.  As an illustration


B  White/Meyer                      Thursfield                          Gaspar/Hall
HB Raines/Newman                Polak                                 J Bowden/Moore
C   Deledio/Tambling               Cogs/Foley                        Howat/Hyde
HF  Pettifer/P Bowden             Schulz                               JON/Casserley
F   Richo/Patto                          Hughes                            Brown/Krak
R  Simmonds/Knobel          Extractors  Tuck/Polo          Taggers  Johnson/Tivendale

Int  Mcguane/Limbach/Hartigan/Jackson/Graeme

We can see areas that beed addressing in future - thitd tall in defence although likely that such a player would be more in the P Bowden/JON mould than Gaspar or Hall in the future.  If Mguane, Limbach or Moore dont come up (or iotrher kpp's) we will have to replace them with good talls.  If Patto and Graeme dont come up we need a back up or new ruckman. What is clear however is that we need more class in the midfield.  We have prospects in Polo Foley Lids Tambling Raines White and maybe Meyer, but need more class than Tuck, Johno or Tivs can offer.  Gotta find a Kerr and or Dal Santo (who went between 11 and 20) if memory serves me right.

Having looked at the above we can expect another decent clear out next year as well if expected mprovements are not forthcoming!

great post

 

[the claw]

why just picks #11 thru #20. the majority of better talls on clubs lists have been taken rnds 1 and 2.early picks imo.

You're right claw, the best talls have gone with very early picks however we no longer have a top-ten pick.

one thing your team does show is we need quality right across the board not just mids.

have a look at the talls
thursfield to me is our future 3rs tall option because of his body shape imo he will never be big enough to play on the big guys. his best asset is his pace for his size and his good skills.if he has lost pace from the knee injury he will more than likely struggle.

gaspar will be gone soon we have to find a fb to replace him.

hall has shown hes never going to be any better than average. he should be replaced.

polak sheesh i wont open up that can of worms i will say though i dont know if we can afford to play him down back.

moore 189 190cm 85 kg is no kpp third tall option only. could well be gone come draft time.

p bowden a tall flanker utility has height but plays very much outside and loose.

schulz make or break yrmore and more are starting to doubt if he will make it. if he does ine would think hes nothing special.

richo only kpp on list of genuine size strength coupled with performance. will be gone in a yr or 3 we need to find replacement now.

pattison may or may not turn into something decent.more than likely a ruckman.

hughes future chf has talent doubts about work ethic.

simonds very good pick up will be 29 next yr.

knobel good tap ruckman dinosaur does very little else.

mcguane great mark again has the frame that suggest 3rd tall option only is only 19 will take time.

limbach  who knows by all reports not good enough young though needs time to develop.

graham rookie who knows could go either way more likely fail thats the nature of the rookie system.

9 of the above if they were gone would probably not be missed abit harsh on the younger ones maybe. there are only 2 kids on the list one could say with any confidence will go on to be good long term players. this is not a put down just an indication of where they are at. they all may improve out of sight and make a fool of me. happens often enough.

looking down the track say 2 yrs no richo no gaspar not saying gaspar is quality has been a  good negater only. what genuine kpp of quality do we have on the list.

You are contradicting your own argument a little with your knocks on Gaspar, Polak, Schulz, Pattison and Hughes - the highest draft picks on the list. You refer to 'quality', which is the key - we would have to be very confident that a tall taken with #13 is going to be a quality player. Yes a quality tall would be very welcome but don't think we should be at all speculative in using a high pick on a tall if a rock-solid mid is the better prospect.

Anyone can look back and describe what has happened in the past; it comes down to how good we are at predicting the future.

when i talk about early picks that would be 1st and s 2nd rounds.
not knocking gaspar 200 games wheather you rate him or not thats a successful pick. i rate hughes its way to early to condemn pattison but i do have grave concerns about polak and schulz. polak hasnt cost us a first rounder. 5 spots in the first round which has snuffed out any chance we had of the cream talls is what hurts. and a third round pick for a bloke who has failed at one club already. schulz and polak have been in the system 4 and 5 yrs respectively and not shown muchbut even if they fail it shouldnt mean we should stop useing early picks on talls it means we have to be better with our selections.

im also an advocate for taking best available with our first pick if thats a mid i would hope that our second pick was on a tall. like i said keep taking talls with late picks and you are going to end up with garbage most times.also if we go down the late pick route with talls we are going to need plenty on the list because for sure and certain we will have to turn them over till we find good ones. as most wont make the grade.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

polak hasnt cost us a first rounder. 5 spots in the first round which has snuffed out any chance we had of the cream talls is what hurts.
Those Cream talls in Hansen and Gumbelton.Yep can see them falling to 8 :hihi :hihi :hihi

 

[the claw]

polak hasnt cost us a first rounder. 5 spots in the first round which has snuffed out any chance we had of the cream talls is what hurts.
Those Cream talls in Hansen and Gumbelton.Yep can see them falling to 8  :hihi :hihi :hihi

cmon madcow your being silly. you trying to tell me thorpe leuenberger sellar and maybe riedwoldt will be there at 13. i could even see brown and mckenzie going before 13.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

polak hasnt cost us a first rounder. 5 spots in the first round which has snuffed out any chance we had of the cream talls is what hurts.
Those Cream talls in Hansen and Gumbelton.Yep can see them falling to 8 :hihi :hihi :hihi

cmon madcow your being silly. you trying to tell me thorpe leuenberger sellar and maybe riedwoldt will be there at 13. i could even see brown and mckenzie going before 13.

You mentioned the cream of the crop Claw.The 2 standouts as a KPP are both Gumbelton and Hansen.Leuenburger is a Ruckman while Thorp i have my suspicions he,s not Terry,s type.Seller hmmmmmm there are just as many questions about him as your[and others] concerns with Hughes.Brown i admit i like but without doubt if we took him at 8 there would be howls of we wasted a top 10 pick on a FB[you know im right] while mckenzie i very much doubt he would be on our radar much the same as Thorp.Revolt a good prospect but you have to wonder if its because of his name.
In short by the time pick 8 came around the cream[Kpp] will be gone and we're left with either 2 players who dont fit the TW game plan and the others for various reasons.

 

[the claw]

polak hasnt cost us a first rounder. 5 spots in the first round which has snuffed out any chance we had of the cream talls is what hurts.
Those Cream talls in Hansen and Gumbelton.Yep can see them falling to 8  :hihi :hihi :hihi

cmon madcow your being silly. you trying to tell me thorpe leuenberger sellar and maybe riedwoldt will be there at 13. i could even see brown and mckenzie going before 13.

You mentioned the cream of the crop Claw.The 2 standouts as a KPP are both Gumbelton and Hansen.Leuenburger is a Ruckman while Thorp i have my suspicions he,s not Terry,s type.Seller hmmmmmm there are just as many questions about him as your[and others] concerns with Hughes.Brown i admit i like but without doubt if we took him at 8 there would be howls of we wasted a top 10 pick on a FB[you know im right] while mckenzie i very much doubt he would be on our radar much the same as Thorp.Revolt a good prospect but you have to wonder if its because of his name.
In short by the time pick 8 came around the cream[Kpp] will be gone and we're left with either 2 players who dont fit the TW game plan and the others for various reasons.

ah mad cow do you agree with wallaces aversion to useing early picks on high quality big strapping talls.if we had pick 8 and if he were to over look thorpe leuenberger or sellar i would have exploded and i think a lot of others would have to. anyway hes got himself out of that dilemma by down trading. it will be intersting to see what talls will still be there at 13. with gaspar ready to retire and we dont have one player on the list who can play fb now or the forseeable future i would have thought brown was a must. my bet is still that wallace will take benjamin i really like him but although we could do with some more like him his type would have to be a low priority surely.do you think brown is worth useing pick 13 on.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

ah mad cow do you agree with wallaces aversion to useing early picks on high quality big strapping talls.if we had pick 8 and if he were to over look thorpe leuenberger or sellar i would have exploded and i think a lot of others would have to. anyway hes got himself out of that dilemma by down trading. it will be intersting to see what talls will still be there at 13. with gaspar ready to retire and we dont have one player on the list who can play fb now or the forseeable future i would have thought brown was a must. my bet is still that wallace will take benjamin i really like him but although we could do with some more like him his type would have to be a low priority surely.do you think brown is worth useing pick 13 on.

To be honest Claw[And i dont mind Thorpe personally] neither Thorpe,leuenberger or Seller are not going to fix our problem in the backline.Hence the recruitment of Polak[Im not saying Polak WILL be the answer however he,s a better option than the above 3].Certainly after the camp results N. Brown is worth pick 13 from the POV that along with Polak & Thursfeild we at least adressed one issue in one foul swoop.

 

[the claw]

  ah mad cow do you agree with wallaces aversion to useing early picks on high quality big strapping talls.if we had pick 8 and if he were to over look thorpe  leuenberger or sellar i would have exploded and i think a lot of others would have to. anyway hes got himself out of that dilemma by down trading. it will be intersting to see what talls will still be there at 13. with gaspar ready to retire  and we dont have one player on the list who can play fb  now or the forseeable future i would have thought brown was a must. my bet is still that wallace will take benjamin i really like him but although we could do with some more like him his type would have to be a low priority surely.do you think brown is worth useing pick 13 on.

To be honest Claw[And i dont mind Thorpe personally] neither Thorpe,leuenberger or Seller are not going to fix our problem in the backline.Hence the recruitment of Polak[Im not saying Polak WILL be the answer however he,s a better option than the above 3].Certainly after the camp results N. Brown is worth pick 13 from the POV that along with Polak & Thursfeild we at least adressed one issue in one foul swoop.

without going into stength and weaknesses i think polak was drafted to play chf. i just cant see him making a good fist of chb or chf for what its worth.. thorpe can play both ends and i would take him in front of a myriad of players including polak. in fact i would not be surprised if thorpe had a better yr than polak although he has yet to be drafted. leuenberger is going to be something for sure with simmonds turning 29 now is the time to find our replacement. sellar will play chf ruck and is a talent.as far as i can see we dont have a chf yet if any of them were there at 8 we would have to take them on the best available principle.if any of them are there at 13 and we ignore them well i hate to think about it.

 

[craig]

  ah mad cow do you agree with wallaces aversion to useing early picks on high quality big strapping talls.if we had pick 8 and if he were to over look thorpe  leuenberger or sellar i would have exploded and i think a lot of others would have to. anyway hes got himself out of that dilemma by down trading. it will be intersting to see what talls will still be there at 13. with gaspar ready to retire  and we dont have one player on the list who can play fb  now or the forseeable future i would have thought brown was a must. my bet is still that wallace will take benjamin i really like him but although we could do with some more like him his type would have to be a low priority surely.do you think brown is worth useing pick 13 on.

To be honest Claw[And i dont mind Thorpe personally] neither Thorpe,leuenberger or Seller are not going to fix our problem in the backline.Hence the recruitment of Polak[Im not saying Polak WILL be the answer however he,s a better option than the above 3].Certainly after the camp results N. Brown is worth pick 13 from the POV that along with Polak & Thursfeild we at least adressed one issue in one foul swoop.

without going into stength and weaknesses i think polak was drafted to play chf. i just cant see him making a good fist of chb or chf for what its worth.. thorpe can play both ends and i would take him in front of a myriad of players including polak. in fact i would not be surprised if thorpe had a better yr than polak although he has yet to be drafted. leuenberger is going to be something  for sure with simmonds turning 29 now is the time to find our replacement. sellar will play chf ruck and is a talent.as far as i can see we dont have a chf yet if any of them were there at 8 we would have to take them on the best available principle.if any of them are there at 13 and we ignore them well i hate to think about it.

Dear Clawsy u better get used to the idea of TW taking more midgets that way it wont do your head in when we pass up the likes of Brown and McKenzie or any other good talls.

I have already come to this realisation therefore am not expecting anything of great note with the coming draft in regard to this.

 

[GoodOne]

if we had pick 8 and if he were to over look thorpe  leuenberger or sellar i would have exploded and i think a lot of others would have to. anyway hes got himself out of that dilemma by down trading.

hehe.. you think TW down-traded to avoid a dilemma of who to pick at #8 .. hehe

 

[Tygrys]

ah mad cow do you agree with wallaces aversion to useing early picks on high quality big strapping talls.if we had pick 8 and if he were to over look thorpe leuenberger or sellar i would have exploded and i think a lot of others would have to. anyway hes got himself out of that dilemma by down trading. it will be intersting to see what talls will still be there at 13. with gaspar ready to retire and we dont have one player on the list who can play fb now or the forseeable future i would have thought brown was a must. my bet is still that wallace will take benjamin i really like him but although we could do with some more like him his type would have to be a low priority surely.do you think brown is worth useing pick 13 on.

To be honest Claw[And i dont mind Thorpe personally] neither Thorpe,leuenberger or Seller are not going to fix our problem in the backline.Hence the recruitment of Polak[Im not saying Polak WILL be the answer however he,s a better option than the above 3].Certainly after the camp results N. Brown is worth pick 13 from the POV that along with Polak & Thursfeild we at least adressed one issue in one foul swoop.

without going into stength and weaknesses i think polak was drafted to play chf. i just cant see him making a good fist of chb or chf for what its worth.. thorpe can play both ends and i would take him in front of a myriad of players including polak. in fact i would not be surprised if thorpe had a better yr than polak although he has yet to be drafted. leuenberger is going to be something for sure with simmonds turning 29 now is the time to find our replacement. sellar will play chf ruck and is a talent.as far as i can see we dont have a chf yet if any of them were there at 8 we would have to take them on the best available principle.if any of them are there at 13 and we ignore them well i hate to think about it.

Dear Clawsy u better get used to the idea of TW taking more midgets that way it wont do your head in when we pass up the likes of Brown and McKenzie or any other good talls.

I have already come to this realisation therefore am not expecting anything of great note with the coming draft in regard to this.

Yep Terry Wallace is a lost cause. The only way I could ever see him picking a quality young tall is if we were to finish say in the bottom 3 or 4 next year and the 'best player available' (as opposed to the ones that he is addicted to) happened to be a key position player. He would be pretty well forced to take him. I don't think he would have the guts or the nerve to downgrade a pick that high so he could pursue his small obsession. And I don't think that Greg Miller would accept having to spindoctor it if he did (could be wrong but it would be very hard to believe). So until Wallace finishes his tenure at the Tigers, all on board the Midget Express!!! (and God only knows what the list is going to look like 3 years from now?).

 

[johnson2richo2003]

thorpe can play both ends and i would take him in front of a myriad of players including polak. in fact i would not be surprised if thorpe had a better yr than polak although he has yet to be drafted.

Big call there Clawster.A kid who hasnt played senior football yet.

 

[Harro12]

  ah mad cow do you agree with wallaces aversion to useing early picks on high quality big strapping talls.if we had pick 8 and if he were to over look thorpe  leuenberger or sellar i would have exploded and i think a lot of others would have to. anyway hes got himself out of that dilemma by down trading. it will be intersting to see what talls will still be there at 13. with gaspar ready to retire  and we dont have one player on the list who can play fb  now or the forseeable future i would have thought brown was a must. my bet is still that wallace will take benjamin i really like him but although we could do with some more like him his type would have to be a low priority surely.do you think brown is worth useing pick 13 on.

To be honest Claw[And i dont mind Thorpe personally] neither Thorpe,leuenberger or Seller are not going to fix our problem in the backline.Hence the recruitment of Polak[Im not saying Polak WILL be the answer however he,s a better option than the above 3].Certainly after the camp results N. Brown is worth pick 13 from the POV that along with Polak & Thursfeild we at least adressed one issue in one foul swoop.

without going into stength and weaknesses i think polak was drafted to play chf. i just cant see him making a good fist of chb or chf for what its worth.. thorpe can play both ends and i would take him in front of a myriad of players including polak. in fact i would not be surprised if thorpe had a better yr than polak although he has yet to be drafted. leuenberger is going to be something  for sure with simmonds turning 29 now is the time to find our replacement. sellar will play chf ruck and is a talent.as far as i can see we dont have a chf yet if any of them were there at 8 we would have to take them on the best available principle.if any of them are there at 13 and we ignore them well i hate to think about it.

Dear Clawsy u better get used to the idea of TW taking more midgets that way it wont do your head in when we pass up the likes of Brown and McKenzie or any other good talls.

I have already come to this realisation therefore am not expecting anything of great note with the coming draft in regard to this.

Yep Terry Wallace is a lost cause. The only way I could ever see him picking a quality young tall is if we were to finish say in the bottom 3 or 4 next year and the 'best player available' (as opposed to the ones that he is addicted to) happened to be a key position player. He would be pretty well forced to take him. I don't think he would have the guts or the nerve to downgrade a pick that high so he could pursue his small obsession. And I don't think that Greg Miller would accept having to spindoctor it if he did (could be wrong but it would be very hard to believe). So until Wallace finishes his tenure at the Tigers, all on board the Midget Express!!! (and God only knows what the list is going to look like 3 years from now?).

Ok so they are not key position players but I would hardly call Polo, Deledio, Meyer, JON midgets. As for Foley well that is another story!

 

[the claw]

lets look at freo their rise to top 4 has coincided with finding kpp mundy and johnson and playing mcpharlin down back. they also have tall defenders in drum haddrill carr crowley and thornton all who are 190 +. they have also seen the improvement of murphy at ff. clearly its been their tall improvement that has them where they are at.imo they lack pace but what did they do they went and got the *smile* head from collingwood to enable them to free up mcpharlin.
if they go backwards it will be because their mids are not quick enough and in a lot of cases are soft. i cant see them winning a flag until this is fixed as i have said time and again it takes well rounded teams who are defensively very sound to win a gf.

 

[Mr Brightside]

After watching a bit of Freo latley I agree with Claw, but the thing that stands out to me about there talls which I think is the key to top KPP players now days is that they are just as good on the deck as they are in the air,Mundy,Johnson,Parker an one very important one you forgot is Grover very powerful unit who seems can play tall or small.
On a defence of GM ;D he got a hell of a lot of critisisim when he tried to lure Johnson then Grover,would have been very handy now.

Des Headland would be the worst class footballer, at picking the ball up when its at his feet, if he is about to get body contact I have seen :

 

[the claw]

After watching a bit of Freo latley I agree with Claw, but the thing that stands out to me about there talls which I think is the key to top KPP players now days is that they are just as good on the deck as they are in the air,Mundy,Johnson,Parker an one very important one you forgot is Grover very powerful unit who seems can play tall or small.
On a defence of GM ;D he got a hell of a lot of critisisim when he tried to lure Johnson then Grover,would have been very handy now.

Des Headland would be the worst class footballer, at picking the ball up when its at his feet, if he is about to get body contact I have seen :

des is softer than heath black if thats possible.
agree well rounded teams require well rounded footballers. it wasnt that long ago you could carry a dinosaur or 2 i think thats gone out the window now.

 

[The Mole]

lets look at freo their rise to top 4 has coincided with finding kpp mundy and johnson and playing mcpharlin down back. they also have tall defenders in drum haddrill carr crowley and thornton all who are 190 +. they have also seen the improvement of murphy at ff. clearly its been their tall improvement that has them where they are at.imo they lack pace but what did they do they went and got the *smile* head from collingwood to enable them to free up mcpharlin.
if they go backwards it will be because their mids are not quick enough and in a lot of cases are soft. i cant see them winning a flag until this is fixed as i have said time and again it takes well rounded teams who are defensively very sound to win a gf.

Whilst I agree we are lacking a couple of tall players it is not entirely true Claw.Their improvement coincdes with Shaw and Harvey arriving to the coaching panel plus the fact that most of them are in the 22 to 27 age bracket which means theyare in their peak years. We are about 2-3 years away from that yet and that is obviously why we have picked up Polak.