McGuane, White & Derrickx Get 1 Year Extensions

[Leysy Days]

Leysy has got to go with Redan on this one.

The IP clubs have on potential draftees is absolutely massive these days.

There wouldnt be a TAC game the club wouldnt have watched on tape. FJ would know every minute details of all our draftees no matter where taken.

Clubs have also been watching a lot of players for years before they are drafted. We aong with everyone else would already be fully across the Under 16's for example.

You are right though Linus in that he does rely on his staffs opinion on players, but like every Mgr he gets judged on his his team perform. If they arent up to it, its his responsibility to get people working under him who are.

 

[linuscambridge]

Leysy has got to go with Redan on this one.

The IP clubs have on potential draftees is absolutely massive these days.

There wouldnt be a TAC game the club wouldnt have watched on tape. FJ would know every minute details of all our draftees no matter where taken.

Clubs have also been watching a lot of players for years before they are drafted. We aong with everyone else would already be fully across the Under 16's for example.

You are right though Linus in that he does rely on his staffs opinion on players, but like every Mgr he gets judged on his his team perform. If they arent up to it, its his responsibility to get people working under him who are.

I hear what you are saying Leysy and appreciate the respectful reply.

Perhaps I am not making myself completely clear, and I'm not talking about a puff piece where Francis tells how many matches he watches a weekend. How does that even work? If I am struck down with the flu and actually spend the whole weekend watching footy the best I can manage is 5 games. That's Friday night under lights, Saturday arvo, Saturday night, Sunday arvo, then the second half of the late match. And that's with the benefit of well lit stadiums and satellite coverage beaming games from all over the country.

I was mainly talking about live matches, and without the benefit of the Tardis, the 5 match weekend would be once in a blue moon, the logistics would make it completely impractical on a regular basis.

Now if you are talking video, it's a whole different story, I sincerely hope they are watching hundreds of hours of juniors on video. But we are talking one camera angle and a grainy low deff camera, it's like watching footy on the ABC in the 70s. And this is the footage that every single recruiter from every club is also poring over, and Francis is supposed to pick up some little nuance of one particular player that nobody else has seen?

As I said, the buck stops with Francis, however I still believe a lot of the work on late picks will more likely be done with a member of the recruiting team who has the ability to go to more obscure matches than the "A" team.

 

[Disco08]

Not to mention many of the late picks Frank's being harshly judged on (even though his overall record compares quite well with other recruiters) were made when we had the most severely understaffed recruiting department in the league.

 

[Leysy Days]

Until 2008 that is true. Not after.

Since then, whilst we don't compare to the Collingwoods of the world we've been adequately enough placed where Frank himself didn't want a bigger recruiting team than he's had.

& in that recent time our late picks still need improvement. No question.

 

[Leysy Days]

As I said, the buck stops with Francis, however I still believe a lot of the work on late picks will more likely be done with a member of the recruiting team who has the ability to go to more obscure matches than the "A" team.

Depends where the player is from, if the TAC, no matter where the player is taken in the draft FJ would be across them far more than anyone else.

If interstate where we have spotters & his staff rather than him going to see, then yes he wouldn't see them as much "live" as the Vic boys he looks after.

Basically, when it comes to live games it is more location based as to who sees what.

 

[Disco08]

Until 2008 that is true. Not after.

Since then, whilst we don't compare to the Collingwoods of the world we've been adequately enough placed where Frank himself didn't want a bigger recruiting team than he's had.

& in that recent time our late picks still need improvement. No question.

That sweeping statement depends a fair bit on the likes of Astbury, Helbig, Arnot, O'Hanlon, Dea, Verrier and Darrou doesn't it?

 

[linuscambridge]

Depends where the player is from, if the TAC, no matter where the player is taken in the draft FJ would be across them far more than anyone else.

If interstate where we have spotters & his staff rather than him going to see, then yes he wouldn't see them as much "live" as the Vic boys he looks after.

Basically, when it comes to live games it is more location based as to who sees what.

Agree.

 

[shawry]

I know an example of an AFL recruiter scouting an under 10s match here in Bridgewater SA and asking the names of a young bloke. Was shocked t ohear they are scouting them that young.

 

[RedanTiger]

I hear what you are saying Leysy and appreciate the respectful reply.

Perhaps I am not making myself completely clear, and I'm not talking about a puff piece where Francis tells how many matches he watches a weekend. How does that even work? If I am struck down with the flu and actually spend the whole weekend watching footy the best I can manage is 5 games. That's Friday night under lights, Saturday arvo, Saturday night, Sunday arvo, then the second half of the late match. And that's with the benefit of well lit stadiums and satellite coverage beaming games from all over the country.

I was mainly talking about live matches, and without the benefit of the Tardis, the 5 match weekend would be once in a blue moon, the logistics would make it completely impractical on a regular basis.

Now if you are talking video, it's a whole different story, I sincerely hope they are watching hundreds of hours of juniors on video. But we are talking one camera angle and a grainy low deff camera, it's like watching footy on the ABC in the 70s. And this is the footage that every single recruiter from every club is also poring over, and Francis is supposed to pick up some little nuance of one particular player that nobody else has seen?

As I said, the buck stops with Francis, however I still believe a lot of the work on late picks will more likely be done with a member of the recruiting team who has the ability to go to more obscure matches than the "A" team.

Sorry for being disrespectful.
As a result of some replies I have had to cop, unfortunately I have sometimes replied to posters in a similar style.
eg

Whoa. I think Jackson pinched the jam from someone's doughnut.

In response to your latest post I would remind you that the TAC Cup competition is largly a confected one designed and implemented to make it easy for AFL clubs to monitor top ranked juniors.
Because of this the fixture is in a lot of ways designed to not have conflicting game times.
As an example for quite a few years, one of the early dates was/is a day at Bendigo where three TAC games were played one after the other.

 

[mld]

Yup. That facetious post of mine was made before I was surprised at the level of personal feeling directed towards FJ in posting. Makes sense.

Edit: Regardless, I'm flattered that you are using that post as an excuse to be rude to people.

 

[Leysy Days]

That sweeping statement depends a fair bit on the likes of Astbury, Helbig, Arnot, O'Hanlon, Dea, Verrier and Darrou doesn't it?

There are also a lot that the jury is in on. i.e. already been delisted.

If we get a good result out of those guys leysy will gladly retract his comment.

 

[Disco08]

If you're still waiting to see how they go before you make judgment why say the performance has been poor at all? Why not just show a little patience?

 

[IrockZ]

Sorry mate, meant to include that before but forgot.

http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=46633.msg1466392#msg1466392

You can now add Browne, Post, Maric, Turner and Wright to the list of failures. Houli was Hartley's pick anyway because we were going to get him via trade in the 1st place. Bit of a stretch to call Dea and Helbig successes when you put Gamble and Gardiner as failures considering they have both played much more games than the other 2.

I do think Wells is a bit overrated during that period though, they lucked out heaps on Scarlett and Ablett who carried their side for many years. Still think he has done very well lately though, guys like Duncan, Vardy, Christenson etc were great picks.

 

[uhuh uhuh]

We need to judge Jacksons tenure in 3 years time not now.

Facts are also that 2000 - 2006 were uncompromised years. We have had to suffer three drafts where many picks were gone.

 

[linuscambridge]

Sorry for being disrespectful.
As a result of some replies I have had to cop, unfortunately I have sometimes replied to posters in a similar style.
eg

In response to your latest post I would remind you that the TAC Cup competition is largly a confected one designed and implemented to make it easy for AFL clubs to monitor top ranked juniors.
Because of this the fixture is in a lot of ways designed to not have conflicting game times.
As an example for quite a few years, one of the early dates was/is a day at Bendigo where three TAC games were played one after the other.

No sweat, gets a bit heated around here sometimes.

Thanks for the info on the TAC cup. I'm sure Francis is all over these players and any late picks by other teams that are missed by Francis deserve critical analysis.

Another point I am not sure was mentioned was the terrible structure of the list left by the Wallace years. I often felt the recruiters were compelled to take a mid and a tall with the first 2 picks regardless of the best available.

 

[IrockZ]

We need to judge Jacksons tenure in 3 years time not now.

Facts are also that 2000 - 2006 were uncompromised years. We have had to suffer three drafts where many picks were gone.

On the flip side the Cats never had a Pick 2 (Cotchin) or 3 (Martin) like we got. Earliest pick was 7 (Selwood)

 

[Disco08]

You can now add Browne, Post, Maric, Turner and Wright to the list of failures. Houli was Hartley's pick anyway because we were going to get him via trade in the 1st place. Bit of a stretch to call Dea and Helbig successes when you put Gamble and Gardiner as failures considering they have both played much more games than the other 2.

I do think Wells is a bit overrated during that period though, they lucked out heaps on Scarlett and Ablett who carried their side for many years. Still think he has done very well lately though, guys like Duncan, Vardy, Christenson etc were great picks.

All I wanted to know is what you thought of Wells' late pick record. I'll assume you agree it's pretty average. Are there any other recruiters you think have an excellent record with late picks that've helped their teams achieve real success?

I realise the list needs updating. If you (or Redan) feel it's that important, feel free. Dea and Helbig are undecided as are many of our recent picks which makes the sustained criticism of Frank even more bizarre.

 

[ToraToraTora]

Earliest pick was 7 (Selwood)

Yeah and look how that turned out. This is type of pick we also need, a 7-15 who turns out to be an absolute gun.

 

[mld]

Imagine if we could get a dual Coleman winner with 13.

 

[Leysy Days]

If you're still waiting to see how they go before you make judgment why say the performance has been poor at all? Why not just show a little patience?

Because we've already been able to pass full judgement on many more players that are already gone. It will take a good turnaround from here.

All I wanted to know is what you thought of Wells' late pick record.

We've been here before, but there is not a lot of relevance to your question.

What do you think the quality of player Wells has needed to recruit in recent times to get a game at his club (largely due to his outstanding work) compared to what FJ's is? You yourself harp on about our chronic lack of depth. We're far easier to upgrade than Geelongs team wouldnt you say...

The quality of player needed at Geelong has been miles better than what we've needed in a recruit to be a success, ergo a far harder task, thus the lack of relevance.