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Menadue to Freo

leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
5,276
305
We have a great situation where all plyers are playing well. We have to have a bunch of players on min chips so the stars can get paid. We need to move out some players like Ellis and Butler to help with the cap and to give them the chance to play more games. Lets not get into the Essendon model where every player is a superstar.
Yes I concede that and have in other posts, but our quality fringe players seem to be treated like steak knives. It's probably part of the price we pay now for our success. However, is Brad Hill really a superstar worth 2 first rounders? Is he a far better player than Brandon Ellis on song - like more than twice the footballer going on the apparent valuations?
Daniher? Who seems to have a very doubtful future injury wise and has hardly player over 2 seasons?
It just looks like a farce to me. We have still put a lot of investment into these guys who have plenty to offer still.
 
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Jonesracing82

Tiger Champion
Sep 30, 2011
2,600
318
Yes I concede that and have in other posts, but our quality fringe players seem to be treated like steak knives. It's probably part of the price we pay now for our success. However, is Brad Hill really a superstar worth 2 first rounders? Is he a far better player than Brandon Ellis on song - like more than twice the footballer going on the apparent valuations?
Daniher? Who seems to have a very doubtful future injury wise and has hardly player over 2 seasons?
It just looks like a farce to me. We have still put a lot of investment into these guys who have plenty to offer still.
Think the difference is more to do with the Clubs doing the deals, some Clubs are clearly desperate to make the 8 next yr & are going all out to do so, it won't work out for all of them. letting fringe players go cheap last yr didn't hurt us this yr even with the injury run we had. It is allowing us to add to the next wave via the Draft.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
11,425
2,421
Think the difference is more to do with the Clubs doing the deals, some Clubs are clearly desperate to make the 8 next yr & are going all out to do so, it won't work out for all of them. letting fringe players go cheap last yr didn't hurt us this yr even with the injury run we had. It is allowing us to add to the next wave via the Draft.
Yeah Miles, Cellis, Lloyd, Concs out

Lynch, Pickett, Stack, Ross in

Is quite an upgrade moving forward.

But it has left a gaping hole on the list for a whipping boy.
 
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TOT70

I'm just a suburban boy
Jul 27, 2004
8,974
752
Melbourne
We have no choice but to let fringe players go cheap. Both our AFL and VFL teams are coming off playing in 2 GF in three years. The off year was 2018 when both finished first on the ladder but couldn’t get the job done. We have some unique circumstances at play.

Our list is very strong.
We have several players who are good enough to play AFL but they can’t displace the incumbents.
Older players are playing well enough to stay in the team.

Nonetheless, we have to make room for younger players. Letting Conca, Miles, CEllis and Lloyd go last year was exactly the right thing to do. It opened up places on the list for younger players who look like being part of our future: Stack, Ross etc. it also opened up places in the senior team for older players like Bolton and Baker. We lost good players for not much compensation but look at the reward.

We need to do it again this year. Good list management is about refreshing the list every year and taking calculated risks. Who would you rather have, Miles or Stack?
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
11,784
825
Camberwell
I think Menadue would have a premiership medal today if he’d been picked in the GF

same as Balta Ross mcintosh Towner stacky and about 15 others.
I think Damien Hardwick could have been picked to replace Fridge Graham and we still would have won the GF
 

spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
11,235
1,460
We have no choice but to let fringe players go cheap. Both our AFL and VFL teams are coming off playing in 2 GF in three years. The off year was 2018 when both finished first on the ladder but couldn’t get the job done. We have some unique circumstances at play.

Our list is very strong.
We have several players who are good enough to play AFL but they can’t displace the incumbents.
Older players are playing well enough to stay in the team.

Nonetheless, we have to make room for younger players. Letting Conca, Miles, CEllis and Lloyd go last year was exactly the right thing to do. It opened up places on the list for younger players who look like being part of our future: Stack, Ross etc. it also opened up places in the senior team for older players like Bolton and Baker. We lost good players for not much compensation but look at the reward.

We need to do it again this year. Good list management is about refreshing the list every year and taking calculated risks. Who would you rather have, Miles or Stack?
We are doing it again this year. Grigg, Ellis, Butler, Townsend, Weller. The difference between Menadue and all those players both last year and this - apart from Butler - is his age (ok, Corey here too but he was a lost cause) and his pace. Our game is built on speed. Miller and Moore are young but there's two more who should go before Connor.
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
951
218
Viewed from a club level this is not just about draft picks.

The message we send to our players, to our workforce - yes this is your livelihood. You deserve to enjoy your time at the club. It is a very short time compared to a lifetime for supporters.
And when you are unhappy or looking for more opportunity then we will trade to your preferred. No hassle.
Because you are worth it.
It reinforces our culture. It keeps players happy.
And doesnt force players to stay and become unhappy.
All for the cost of a throwaway draft pick
 
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waiting

Tiger Legend
Apr 15, 2007
6,901
861
melbourne, victoria
Viewed from a club level this is not just about draft picks.

The message we send to our players, to our workforce - yes this is your livelihood. You deserve to enjoy your time at the club. It is a very short time compared to a lifetime for supporters.
And when you are unhappy or looking for more opportunity then we will trade to your preferred. No hassle.
Because you are worth it.
It reinforces our culture. It keeps players happy.
And doesnt force players to stay and become unhappy.
All for the cost of a throwaway draft pick
Thats it dell.

Thats how we deal now.

If you want to look elsewhere for opportunities we will facilitate a deal. If not we sit down and talk.

Thats the Richmond way we do things.
 
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leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
5,276
305
We are doing it again this year. Grigg, Ellis, Butler, Townsend, Weller. The difference between Menadue and all those players both last year and this - apart from Butler - is his age (ok, Corey here too but he was a lost cause) and his pace. Our game is built on speed. Miller and Moore are young but there's two more who should go before Connor.
Think I agree, certainly re Menadue. It's difficult to be certain re Moore as he missed most of the year with injury and I still believe he may be versatile enough to play elsewhere than forward (saw him play well off HB in early VFL games) where there is hardly a spot for hin atm in our top AFL team (although injury back-up). I doubt Miller will male it.
 
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leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
5,276
305
We have no choice but to let fringe players go cheap. Both our AFL and VFL teams are coming off playing in 2 GF in three years. The off year was 2018 when both finished first on the ladder but couldn’t get the job done. We have some unique circumstances at play.

Our list is very strong.
We have several players who are good enough to play AFL but they can’t displace the incumbents.
Older players are playing well enough to stay in the team.

Nonetheless, we have to make room for younger players. Letting Conca, Miles, CEllis and Lloyd go last year was exactly the right thing to do. It opened up places on the list for younger players who look like being part of our future: Stack, Ross etc. it also opened up places in the senior team for older players like Bolton and Baker. We lost good players for not much compensation but look at the reward.

We need to do it again this year. Good list management is about refreshing the list every year and taking calculated risks. Who would you rather have, Miles or Stack?
Fair response, most of which I agree with, but it's about Menadue in the end. Spook has put it well too. Not sure if he is the type to let go now, when he looks on the cusp of perhaps taking Ellis' place. His stats from limited opportunity in '19 compare favourably with Bolton for example and not so shabby versus Baker who, again, got many more games. Not sure how you classify the two Bs as 'older players' though, although Menadue is about 3 years older than Bolton.

I still prefer Stack at HB and Baker as a SF myself. Certainly Butler has been surpassed and will go, but just not sure that Naish or Turner will be ready in 2020 although I'm positive about both. Stacky had a brilliant debut but now has to get back from injury at 100% and back it up, hopefully avoiding 2nd year blues. Worried about whether Ross lacks pace but he also looks promising.

The Miles reference is hardly relevant currently - it's about Menadue - but although a very different player to Stack, Miles still played well as an inside mid. The current issue is about whether RFC should keep Mena and perhaps frank all our patient investment from the good signs over latter VFL season.
Anyway, much of my comment has been on getting fair value for guys like Connor or Daniel ... better than 'steak knives' picks.
 
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caesar

Tiger Champion
Feb 9, 2015
3,310
1,977
Fair response, most of which I agree with, but it's about Menadue in the end. Spook has put it well too. Not sure if he is the type to let go now, when he looks on the cusp of perhaps taking Ellis' place. His stats from limited opportunity in '19 compare favourably with Bolton for example and not so shabby versus Baker who, again, got many more games. Not sure how you classify the two Bs as 'older players' though, although Menadue is about 3 years older than Bolton.

I still prefer Stack at HB and Baker as a SF myself. Certainly Butler has been surpassed and will go, but just not sure that Naish or Turner will be ready in 2020 although I'm positive about both. Stacky had a brilliant debut but now has to get back from injury at 100% and back it up, hopefully avoiding 2nd year blues. Worried about whether Ross lacks pace but he also looks promising.

The Miles reference is hardly relevant currently - it's about Menadue - but although a very different player to Stack, Miles still played well as an inside mid. The current issue is about whether RFC should keep Mena and perhaps frank all our patient investment from the good signs over latter VFL season.
Anyway, much of my comment has been on getting fair value for guys like Connor or Daniel ... better than 'steak knives' picks.
Leon I wouldn't be worried about Jack Ross's pace he has already showed he can get from contest to contest. Jack also recorded a 2.95sec 20 metre sprint time which is elite, (same a Jaidyn Stephenson in his draft year). Maybe because he does so much grunt work or that he hasn't learnt yet how to best use it on game day or it just isn't apparent to us.

Here is a passage from Draft Central that should allay any concerns about lack of pace:

Given his power, Ross’ 20m sprint time of 2.95 seconds makes sense, but he could look to use that more when bursting from packs
 
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caesar

Tiger Champion
Feb 9, 2015
3,310
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Think I agree, certainly re Menadue. It's difficult to be certain re Moore as he missed most of the year with injury and I still believe he may be versatile enough to play elsewhere than forward (saw him play well off HB in early VFL games) where there is hardly a spot for hin atm in our top AFL team (although injury back-up). I doubt Miller will male it.
Moore will leave for more opportunity at another club.