Morton was a great trade | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Morton was a great trade

Love this kid. Great pick-up. Always happy when the ball is in his hands. He also adds a lot to our forward line in terms of intensity and tackling.
 
Yep, I'm happy with what i've seen so far with Mitch.Rides high on confidence!
 
Dyer Disciple said:
Certainly do disagree Claw. Comparing him to Pettifer is silly as he has shown far more than Pettifer has at the same age.

Why do so many suddenly expect all kids to be flying by 21. He played 12 games at the Eagles over his 3 years there as a raw kid out of the draft, dozens of great players have not played much footy by 20 like him. I disagree with your views on him, he's generally always shown something when he's played. He's had issues with injury and/or opportunity which is different to what we are talking about. He's been consistent and he's always been improving, sure he has weaknesses in his game, nine out of ten 21 yr olds do. You can't ask much more of a kid.

There are plenty of players who are not the most courageous in the side but are still good players. I think people are getting a little carried away with the magnifying glass here on minimal sightings/evidence considering his 21 and played his first "full" season.

As far as talk of ferals I don't buy into that silly talk.
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nothing silly at all in the comparison.they are both hff nothing more atm. all im asking is morton be developed into something more than a flanker i would like to see him become something approaching a well rounded footballer. clearly atm he is not.
i dont think its over the top to expect a 22 yo 5yr player to step up a notch or 2. and that is what he becomes next yr a 22yo 5th yr player. i have always said he would make a good hbf it would do him some good as well.
and you forget i watched 3 yrs of him over here and was highly critical of him. he couldnt crack a game at west coast for all the reasons mentioned here. all i can say is watch the knives come out if the goals dry up. krakouer pettifer and others have kicked their 30 35 goals a yr but were rightly criticised for other areas of their games. morton is no different.

do i think he was worth pick 35 yeah probably, but hes of the type i would not have been giving 35 up for.in the context of trading pick 19 for another soft flanker in mcmahon which should not have happened i most certainly would not have used my next pick on a similar type.
if we had used pick 19 on a list requirement then yes 35 for morton would have been okay. i dont think him a dud he has talent and good skills but sheesh he has a lot to do to become a genuine consistent solid afl player.
it seems one should not criticise our players deficiencies.
 
the claw said:
nothing silly at all in the comparison.they are both hff nothing more atm. all im asking is morton be developed into something more than a flanker i would like to see him become something approaching a well rounded footballer. clearly atm he is not.
i dont think its over the top to expect a 22 yo 5yr player to step up a notch or 2. and that is what he becomes next yr a 22yo 5th yr player. i have always said he would make a good hbf it would do him some good as well.
and you forget i watched 3 yrs of him over here and was highly critical of him. he couldnt crack a game at west coast for all the reasons mentioned here. all i can say is watch the knives come out if the goals dry up. krakouer pettifer and others have kicked their 30 35 goals a yr but were rightly criticised for other areas of their games. morton is no different.

do i think he was worth pick 35 yeah probably, but hes of the type i would not have been giving 35 up for.in the context of trading pick 19 for another soft flanker in mcmahon which should not have happened i most certainly would not have used my next pick on a similar type.
if we had used pick 19 on a list requirement then yes 35 for morton would have been okay. i dont think him a dud he has talent and good skills but sheesh he has a lot to do to become a genuine consistent solid afl player.
it seems one should not criticise our players deficiencies.
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Claw, agree that ideally you want your forwards to be able to impact in the middle at times but every side has their player who is predominantly a forward. Why would we not need a player of that ilk too? I see Morton as being potentially much more damaging in the forward line than on the ball. He is elusive and knows how to kick goals. 35 goals from 16 games or whatever it was is a decent return for a 21 year old. As he matures further and gains even more experience I think he can truly be an excellent player at the Tigers.
 
the claw said:
nothing silly at all in the comparison.they are both hff nothing more atm. all im asking is morton be developed into something more than a flanker i would like to see him become something approaching a well rounded footballer. clearly atm he is not.
i dont think its over the top to expect a 22 yo 5yr player to step up a notch or 2. and that is what he becomes next yr a 22yo 5th yr player. i have always said he would make a good hbf it would do him some good as well.
and you forget i watched 3 yrs of him over here and was highly critical of him. he couldnt crack a game at west coast for all the reasons mentioned here. all i can say is watch the knives come out if the goals dry up. krakouer pettifer and others have kicked their 30 35 goals a yr but were rightly criticised for other areas of their games. morton is no different.

do i think he was worth pick 35 yeah probably, but hes of the type i would not have been giving 35 up for.in the context of trading pick 19 for another soft flanker in mcmahon which should not have happened i most certainly would not have used my next pick on a similar type.
if we had used pick 19 on a list requirement then yes 35 for morton would have been okay. i dont think him a dud he has talent and good skills but sheesh he has a lot to do to become a genuine consistent solid afl player.
it seems one should not criticise our players deficiencies.
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Come on Claw, you know me better than that, always happy to debate and open minded on views. I just think some concentrate a little too much on the negative and empower before it even has any substance, or at least go over the top a bit. If people can go over the top being positive, then the same can be said of people being negative Claw. Can't have light without darkness.

I have no problem with you seeing deficiencies in his game, as I said all kids have them. Analytical observations are great, strengths and weaknesses.

I worded your comparison to Pettifer badly, earlier in this thread i compared them myself after all, it was the WAY you did it I thought was silly/over the top.

Making a statement like "if he continues the same way he will be of no more value than pettrified" to me is a silly statement when someone has shown more than Pettifer has already, at his first year at the club no less. Bit unfair and very negative, expecting the worse. If a kid has already shown more at the same point in his career, let's put a little more faith in him to be better than that player.

How many 20 yr olds in their first year of football at a club kick 35 goals in 17 games of a half forward flank? Not many. Certainly of the level of ability you indicate he has shown to date.

It just seems people hold up perfect prototypes of players and if a player doesn't meet that feel they are free to be hacked online, my whole life has been on a training environment and I'm known as one of the hardest trainers people have ever had, so I know about high standards and not settling for second best.

Sounding of negatively on players in their first year at the club who are at least improving and showing something though achieves nothing.

He's one of the few kids we have had/have of late who actually show's something of substance and shows gradual improvement as he plays, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and wait and see before getting into him.

You raise Pettifer & Krakouer as examples as people kicking as much goals but justifiably copping it, once again, I say they are different.

Morton is 21 and played 12 or so games before he did it in his first year at a club.

Pettifer had played 30 odd games and didn't do it till he was 23. He's also already tackling more than Kayne ever has so it's no so bad.

Krakouer I have no idea where you are coming from, Morton has kicked more than he ever has in his entire seven years. In fact Andy never kicked more than just over 20 goals in a season and for about 4 of the seasons he played more games than Morton did this year. Andy played 102 games for 102 goals, you figure it out.

Do you seriously think he's not aiming or none of us don't think he should step up a notch or 2? Of course he does and supporters expect him to also. However i would like to think it would be a vast minority that would get into him at this stage of his career based on what he has shown so far.

He's got flaws, but at least he's showing something already and always improving.
 
TheUmpire said:
I'm not a troll, and if you reread what I said you will see it says that I have yet to see him take a one grab mark. This is a serious deficiency in his game. He needs to work very hard on improving his hands over summer. I very much hope that he is able to improve, as this would make him a far more dangerous player for us, much harder to match up on.

As for his softness, I've seen him squib a few contests. He is the master of running under the ball so that he doesn't have to stand his ground and get smashed. He must learn that when it his time to stand up and take one for the team he must do so. That said I was quite impressed with Morton's year, I just feel that a few were over the top with praise without showing any objectivity (by pointing out some of his weaknesses).
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I reckon you copped a bit of rough treatment for your comments Umpy.
You probably stated things a bit more forcefully than I would have but I certainly have concerns about the things you mentioned.

Consistently two grabbing marks is a worrying sign. I hope it's a bad habit that can be remedied and not something that's going to remain through his whole career

Running under marks is awful to watch, but hopefully he'll have been shown the footage and realise that better efforts are required.
 
Dyer Disciple said:
Come on Claw, you know me better than that, always happy to debate and open minded on views. I just think some concentrate a little too much on the negative and empower before it even has any substance, or at least go over the top a bit. If people can go over the top being positive, then the same can be said of people being negative Claw. Can't have light without darkness.

I have no problem with you seeing deficiencies in his game, as I said all kids have them. Analytical observations are great, strengths and weaknesses.

I worded your comparison to Pettifer badly, earlier in this thread i compared them myself after all, it was the WAY you did it I thought was silly/over the top.

Making a statement like "if he continues the same way he will be of no more value than pettrified" to me is a silly statement when someone has shown more than Pettifer has already, at his first year at the club no less. Bit unfair and very negative, expecting the worse. If a kid has already shown more at the same point in his career, let's put a little more faith in him to be better than that player.

How many 20 yr olds in their first year of football at a club kick 35 goals in 17 games of a half forward flank? Not many. Certainly of the level of ability you indicate he has shown to date.

It just seems people hold up perfect prototypes of players and if a player doesn't meet that feel they are free to be hacked online, my whole life has been on a training environment and I'm known as one of the hardest trainers people have ever had, so I know about high standards and not settling for second best.

Sounding of negatively on players in their first year at the club who are at least improving and showing something though achieves nothing.

He's one of the few kids we have had/have of late who actually show's something of substance and shows gradual improvement as he plays, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and wait and see before getting into him.

You raise Pettifer & Krakouer as examples as people kicking as much goals but justifiably copping it, once again, I say they are different.

Morton is 21 and played 12 or so games before he did it in his first year at a club.

Pettifer had played 30 odd games and didn't do it till he was 23. He's also already tackling more than Kayne ever has so it's no so bad.

Krakouer I have no idea where you are coming from, Morton has kicked more than he ever has in his entire seven years. In fact Andy never kicked more than just over 20 goals in a season and for about 4 of the seasons he played more games than Morton did this year. Andy played 102 games for 102 goals, you figure it out.

Do you seriously think he's not aiming or none of us don't think he should step up a notch or 2? Of course he does and supporters expect him to also. However i would like to think it would be a vast minority that would get into him at this stage of his career based on what he has shown so far.

He's got flaws, but at least he's showing something already and always improving.
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okay im going to concede hes been better than pettifer. but i firmly believe he has to be capable of rotating thru mid or of hb or both. and yes i will concede an average of 2 goals a game for a bloke who primarily plays as a flanker is a good return.but if he remains nothing but a flanker he will be expendable and vulnerable.
hes a lovely kick on both sides hes not slow but not what you would call quick hes clever and reads it well and he will chase and tackle but his attributes mean he will struggle at times. if he cant find the ball forward he must be able to go into the midfield and make a contribution. leon davis who i dont rate highly by the way has learnt to do this.this is all i am saying.

what the forward line lacks is a small.a quick small or rover if you like who kicks goals and tackles well. we have two others in morton and brown.

nathan brown was having many a poor game playing forward this yr but he managed to make a contribution and free himself up by going into the midfield. like morton a damaging player by foot. in the main you want these two playing forward but they both must be part of any rotation that is deemed neccesary, for the teams sake and their own.

finally i would say you are judging morton on one yr at the tiges me im judging him on his career so far. for me one decent yr does not make a career. and i will admit i can be very harsh on players who take short steps they want to have some very good redeeming features for me to tolerate them. and imo in the main by 22 23 for aguy mortons size 184cm this age means most of their development is done.
 
the claw said:
okay im going to concede hes been better than pettifer. but i firmly believe he has to be capable of rotating thru mid or of hb or both. and yes i will concede an average of 2 goals a game for a bloke who primarily plays as a flanker is a good return.but if he remains nothing but a flanker he will be expendable and vulnerable.
hes a lovely kick on both sides hes not slow but not what you would call quick hes clever and reads it well and he will chase and tackle but his attributes mean he will struggle at times. if he cant find the ball forward he must be able to go into the midfield and make a contribution. leon davis who i dont rate highly by the way has learnt to do this.this is all i am saying.

what the forward line lacks is a small.a quick small or rover if you like who kicks goals and tackles well. we have two others in morton and brown.

nathan brown was having many a poor game playing forward this yr but he managed to make a contribution and free himself up by going into the midfield. like morton a damaging player by foot. in the main you want these two playing forward but they both must be part of any rotation that is deemed neccesary, for the teams sake and their own.

finally i would say you are judging morton on one yr at the tiges me im judging him on his career so far. for me one decent yr does not make a career. and i will admit i can be very harsh on players who take short steps they want to have some very good redeeming features for me to tolerate them. and imo in the main by 22 23 for aguy mortons size 184cm this age means most of their development is done.
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Fair enough Claw, respect your opinion, always have. You just loose me when you start to go a bit overboard.

As usual you make sound points, we'll have to agree to disagree on the hbf thing, I see your sense but I just think he would be wasted there considering his natural talents. I'm a big one for letting players settle in the back half and grow long term into the role. I understand the worth of having players learn roles in certain positions, but it's great in theory but doesn't always get done in a lot of practice. In your case, it does (midfielders) but i just don't see him as a midfielder sorry. As such, I see him better learning to sink or swim on wings and half forward.

Personally I am hoping he can be our Robert Murphy. I'm not saying he can or is more talented (he kicked more goals than him this season even though murphy played 7 more games, while that is true, I am JOKING in making that a point :hihi) I'm just saying that is what I would like to develop him into position/style wise.

I'm not quite judging him on one year Claw, though I concede and agree you would know far more of him than I before he came to the tiges. However there is no question his improving in contributions to teams consistently and how players are early in their careers is not always a sign they are going to be like that (in respect to what you have seen that you don't like).

Look I am not giving the guy a gold pass to the Rolling Stone's Groupie Room.

I'm just saying I think he deserves some patience, respect for what he has done in our jumper for us and recognition he has done far more than Krakouer or Pettifer did for us to date in a shorter period of time.

I'm with you, I expect the best and I want to see a lot more improvement in him. However I expect that of any 22 year old, hell I expect that of Cotchin and Deledio next year. NO matter how well or bad you play, I expect improvement if you marked a line in the sand as that was what you were capable of this year at such young ages. Err maybe i shouldn't have used the line in the sand thing....*coughs*

As far as Leon Davis...well...I would say him and Tambling are a better comparison...but that is opening another can of whoop ass for us and I am now in official chill mode Claw ;D

P.S: Morton is 185cm, i know because he's 1cm shorter than Roberta Williams...I mean Robert Murphy.
 
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