NBN | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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NBN

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
9
NBN plans compared


Speeds25-100mbps25-50mbps
Fibre to home93% of premises22% of premises
Fibre to node0% of premises 71% of premises
Completion date20212019
Cost $44 billion$29.5 billion

The NBN has been mentioned on various threads but I thought it worthy of it's own devoted discussion. I've deliberately left the party headings off the table above in hopes people will discuss the topic on it's merits rather than on party loyalty.

From a laylady's perspective I am in favour of the fibre optic option.

Reasons-

It mightn't be necessary for us or even our kids but it's forward planning to keep future generations in line with the world. It could make a massive difference in years to come. It could affect things like business deals and medical procedures.

It might be false economy to penny pinch now but have ongoing future maintenance costs on a deteriorating product, possibly even resulting in a future need for replacement.

Rural Australia (us included) has expensive, and slow, internet options. Some still on dial up. Even with wireless quality depends on usage and atmospheric conditions. That would be less likely to be addressed if fibre optic wasn't introduced.

What do others see as the pros and cons of the 2 plans?
 

lamb22

Tiger Legend
Jan 29, 2005
11,425
1,322
The LNP 'fraudband' is a joke.

First maximum speeds for the real NBN is up to 1000 mbps with most able to get 100 mbps and many to get quicker speeds.

The fraudband will basically have similar speeds to present ADSL.

Why take an 8 lane highway to a node and then run a cobbled lane to your house.

Homes will have to be within 1 km of a node so that means we will have ugly toliet block boxes on every second or third block. How's that for beautifying the neighbourhood.

If you want fibre to the home YOU will have to pay an extra $4000 to $5000 to get it connected.

The copper is in disprepair and will need $1billion a year to maintain.

The copper is owned by Telstra and they will screw the government on price to use. The figure $20 billion has been thrown around.

Fraudband will use about 4 more times energy as fibre to the home uses GPON which operates without any powered equipment between a home and the fibre access node. More greenhouse emmissions u nder Fraudband.

Finally the upload speeds are insufficient to get real competition into broadcasting, so protecting Pay TV monolpolies where they gouge their customers.

Also fraudband will undo the universal wholesale price which means regional areas will get screwed with higher costs.

So finally fraudband is:

(a) Slower;
(b) dirtier;
(c) uglier;
(d) costlier for regional areas;
(d) more expensive to maintain;
(e) in the end costlier for everyone; and
(f) insuffiucient as a real driver of productivity in the future



An absolute lemon of a policy.

https://theconversation.com/a-tale-of-two-nbns-the-coalitions-broadband-policy-explained-13304

https://theconversation.com/the-coalitions-nbn-policy-is-a-triumph-of-short-termism-over-long-term-vision-13333
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
20,514
4,903
Its a lemon. Anyone with any expertise knows it, will the public buy it? Will enough of the public understand the conceptual shift that in a digital economy, the NBN is the Snowy Scheme for our times? I have faith.

Coalition policy: Technology: big Fail, infrastucture (pulling rail projects in congested capitals) big fail, Climate change; astronomical fail.
 

Soda

Tiger Rookie
Feb 5, 2013
303
0
I am surprised Turnbull has supported the LNP position, it definitely stinks.

There is little doubt the labour version is clearly the best option but will it be delieverd on time and budget? Is there a budget?

This is one area Labour could pull some votes back come September if they sell it right although their record on big infrastructure since they came to power in 2007 is apparently less than impressive

http://www.theage.com.au/business/labors-failure-on-infrastructure-20130311-2fwbx.html
 

Liverpool

How did that Julia and Kevin thing work out? :)
Jan 24, 2005
9,054
1
Melbourne
Soda said:
There is little doubt the labour version is clearly the best option but will it be delieverd on time and budget? Is there a budget?

Thats the main problem.

It'd be great having a superior internet and while its nice to live a champagne lifestyle, its hard to do on beer money.
Interesting that many on here believe we went from surplus to deficit because the ALP 'get things done' yet your link, from The Age, denotes otherwise.

What was the budget on the NBN? Is it over budget? What was the country's deficit again?
Answers on those three questions might give an insight over why the Coalition are looking at the alternative to the NBN.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
9
Liverpool said:
Thats the main problem.

It'd be great having a superior internet and while its nice to live a champagne lifestyle, its hard to do on beer money.
Interesting that many on here believe we went from surplus to deficit because the ALP 'get things done' yet your link, from The Age, denotes otherwise.

What was the budget on the NBN? Is it over budget? What was the country's deficit again?
Answers on those three questions might give an insight over why the Coalition are looking at the alternative to the NBN.

So fibre optic would be considered a better alternative but better to give it a miss based on finances? Doesn't show much forward thinking for the technological future. Interested to know how much maintenance would cost and what would happen if the copper eventually ended up beyond repair. Could potentially cost more than doing the job properly in the first place...and all we'd have to show for it was an archaic internet system that massively disadvantaged us on the world stage.
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
20,514
4,903
Liverpool said:
Thats the main problem.

It'd be great having a superior internet and while its nice to live a champagne lifestyle, its hard to do on beer money.
Interesting that many on here believe we went from surplus to deficit because the ALP 'get things done' yet your link, from The Age, denotes otherwise.

What was the budget on the NBN? Is it over budget? What was the country's deficit again?
Answers on those three questions might give an insight over why the Coalition are looking at the alternative to the NBN.

Its not about downloading your favourite episode of F-troop quickly, its about commerce and becoming a techy nation with the best resources. What major infrastructure initiative hasn't had teething hassles or gone over budget?

You have to spend money to make money.

Typical scared coalition approach
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
20,514
4,903
lamb22 said:
The LNP 'fraudband' is a joke.

First maximum speeds for the real NBN is up to 1000 mbps with most able to get 100 mbps and many to get quicker speeds.

The fraudband will basically have similar speeds to present ADSL.

Why take an 8 lane highway to a node and then run a cobbled lane to your house.

Homes will have to be within 1 km of a node so that means we will have ugly toliet block boxes on every second or third block. How's that for beautifying the neighbourhood.

If you want fibre to the home YOU will have to pay an extra $4000 to $5000 to get it connected.

The copper is in disprepair and will need $1billion a year to maintain.

The copper is owned by Telstra and they will screw the government on price to use. The figure $20 billion has been thrown around.

Fraudband will use about 4 more times energy as fibre to the home uses GPON which operates without any powered equipment between a home and the fibre access node. More greenhouse emmissions u nder Fraudband.

Finally the upload speeds are insufficient to get real competition into broadcasting, so protecting Pay TV monolpolies where they gouge their customers.

Also fraudband will undo the universal wholesale price which means regional areas will get screwed with higher costs.

So finally fraudband is:

(a) Slower;
(b) dirtier;
(c) uglier;
(d) costlier for regional areas;
(d) more expensive to maintain;
(e) in the end costlier for everyone; and
(f) insuffiucient as a real driver of productivity in the future



An absolute lemon of a policy.

https://theconversation.com/a-tale-of-two-nbns-the-coalitions-broadband-policy-explained-13304

https://theconversation.com/the-coalitions-nbn-policy-is-a-triumph-of-short-termism-over-long-term-vision-13333

wow. Compelling. Toilet blocks every few blocks? Hi maintanance? Hi energy requirements? I knew it would be slower, which should be the knock on it by itself, I personally didn't know any of that. Geez they are crap
 

MB78

I can have my cake and eat it too
Sep 8, 2009
7,700
1,560
NBN is the path we need to go as we are too far down the track to do a backflip. All IT experts state that it is the way to go so who am I to argue.

What I would like from the ALP as they are in control of this project is updates on costings and timeframes. The current minister has no respect to us as taxpayers by refusing to address this issue and lying or being incompetent take your pick. We need to take a hard line business approach to this to ensure that this is delivered close to the projected cost and on time.
 

lamb22

Tiger Legend
Jan 29, 2005
11,425
1,322
Liverpool said:
Thats the main problem.

It'd be great having a superior internet and while its nice to live a champagne lifestyle, its hard to do on beer money.
Interesting that many on here believe we went from surplus to deficit because the ALP 'get things done' yet your link, from The Age, denotes otherwise.

What was the budget on the NBN? Is it over budget? What was the country's deficit again?
Answers on those three questions might give an insight over why the Coalition are looking at the alternative to the NBN.

The NBN is off budget and has nothing to do with the deficit.

The NBN is an investment will make money as well as providing NECESSARY INFRASTRUCTURE IF WE ARE TO KEEP UP WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD. Revenue projections are for about $80 billiion alone in the period 2020 - 2030.

We sold Teslstra for $50 billion and the NBN which is Telstra on steroids will be built for $37 billion. NO BRAINER!

BTW Fraudband is already obsolete - new ultra high definition 4k movies to come out soon need 28 mbps to stream.

The next generation 8k will need four fold.

Hologramatic movies are apparently 5 - 10 years away and the LNPs piece of string and two tin cans wont cut it I'm afraid.
 

MB78

I can have my cake and eat it too
Sep 8, 2009
7,700
1,560
lamb22 said:
the NBN which is Telstra on steroids will be built for $37 billion. NO BRAINER!

Lamb perhaps you better explain to the Australian public that it will still cost 37 billion. As the ALP are unwilling to give updates on current costs and progress.
 

Willo

Tiger Legend
Oct 13, 2007
16,450
3,070
Aldinga Beach
MB78 said:
Lamb perhaps you better explain to the Australian public that it will still cost 37 billion. As the ALP are unwilling to give updates on current costs and progress.

Will probably be closer to double that.
 

Liverpool

How did that Julia and Kevin thing work out? :)
Jan 24, 2005
9,054
1
Melbourne
rosy3/23 said:
So fibre optic would be considered a better alternative but better to give it a miss based on finances? Doesn't show much forward thinking for the technological future.
tigersnake said:
Its not about downloading your favourite episode of F-troop quickly, its about commerce and becoming a techy nation with the best resources. What major infrastructure initiative hasn't had teething hassles or gone over budget?
You have to spend money to make money.
Typical scared coalition approach

I have to admit, I find it funny that many people who are happy to talk about people "living within their means" on other threads, but don't expect our country to.

lamb22 said:
Revenue projections are for about $80 billiion alone in the period 2020 - 2030.

We sold Teslstra for $50 billion and the NBN which is Telstra on steroids will be built for $37 billion. NO BRAINER!

Are these the same people who projected that we'd be in surplus by this budget...and the previous one...and the previous one...

As for $37-billion....what arse did you pull those figures from?
The Government themselves have no idea how much this will cost by the end of it or how long it will take.

MB78 said:
NBN is the path we need to go as we are too far down the track to do a backflip. All IT experts state that it is the way to go so who am I to argue.

Totally agree...it will be like other ALP projects such as desal plants, Myki, etc that we ended up going so far down the path, there was no turning back.

To be honest, I have no problem with the idea of the NBN or the technology itself, but I do question whether it will ever be finished, that it will get close to budget at all, and whether we can afford such a project to begin with due to previous wastage of money on other things.
 

Panthera tigris FC

Full Blown Chimp Crush
Oct 28, 2004
4,808
2
Torquay
It is a total no-brainer.

The NBN is a long term investment with no obvious caps on possible speed. The liberal policy is an expensive stop-gap that relies on ageing infrastructure (privately owned) and has very little scope for upgrading as bandwidth requirements will demand in the future.

The NBN is a long-term investment, not a cost.
 

Soda

Tiger Rookie
Feb 5, 2013
303
0
lamb22 said:
The NBN is off budget and has nothing to do with the deficit.

The NBN is an investment will make money as well as providing NECESSARY INFRASTRUCTURE IF WE ARE TO KEEP UP WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD. Revenue projections are for about $80 billiion alone in the period 2020 - 2030.

We sold Teslstra for $50 billion and the NBN which is Telstra on steroids will be built for $37 billion. NO BRAINER!

The initial NBN estimate was $43B and it is now quoted at $37.3B. This article from 2010 paints a positive picture.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2010/05/06/nbn-can-be-done-on-budget-on-time-and-itll-cost-35-a-month/

I have searched for updates on costs/rollout etc but cannot find anything - the NBN website doesn't provide any real financial information. The murdoch press is definitely runnign a scare campaign about the overall costs as well as cost to user, does anyone have any tips on where to get actual information?

Would be great if a major project could be delivered as promised.
 

MB78

I can have my cake and eat it too
Sep 8, 2009
7,700
1,560
The current minister is unwilling to provide an update Soda. If it was positive he would be talking about it as a good news story for the government.

It does not matter what side of politics you vote for we all need to be given an update. It's time the voting public was given some respect.