Nick Stevens out for round 1

[Big Cat Lover]

Stats don't tell the whole story but that's a big enough example that we found ways to win without him no matter how sh!t we were over that period of his career.

Thanks - that stat surprises me but must be correct - well done for getting them.

I still maintain Richo is our best forward, and would love for the club to have recruited one decent marking alternative in his time at the club. We now have Jack as a second tall and he is already showing more than the litany of poor key position forwards of the past.

Would like to know the breakdown of Richo's TOG last year. Probably 60/40 forward/mid?

 

[the claw]

It is accurate - averaging a couple more goals per game in 2008 to those previous years - is it because richo is not playing permanent forward?

If you look at our disposals to scoring in those same years:

2008 - 2nd disposals - 5th goals
2007 - 9th disposals - 12th goals
2006 - 13th disposals - 11th goals

I would say the forward line has under-performed in 2008 given the weight of possession?

Maybe they struggled with Richo's delivery

yep stats in isolation are crap. and useing the eyes richo goes forward an awful lot. when we need to kick a goal badly where do you find richo. without him in the forward line the side lacks aerial presence height and size.
its unbelievable that wallace could leave an undersized 19yo still growing riewoldt as the sole tall forward thats real good for his development.
richo and jack are part of a team within a team and if richo isnt a permanent part of that team wallace should structure up far better than he does.
if richo is a mid its my belief wallace should structure up the forward line with riewoldt schulz and post instead of robbing peter to pay paul.
ive said this before and i will say it again to me richo is taking cotchins spot on a wing i want to see our best kicks coming from hb and the centre delivering the ball. i want to see every forward entry count. this is never going to happen with the likes of richo on a wing or tuck in the centre raines white and mcmahon coming of hb. and when things get tight and long ball to position is required we have no chance with just riewoldt as the sole tall forward.
when is terry going to structure up the forward line and have them play as a unit. after 5 yrs i suppose one can answer never.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

yep stats in isolation are crap. and useing the eyes richo goes forward an awful lot. when we need to kick a goal badly where do you find richo. without him in the forward line the side lacks aerial presence height and size.
its unbelievable that wallace could leave an undersized 19yo still growing riewoldt as the sole tall forward thats real good for his development.
richo and jack are part of a team within a team and if richo isnt a permanent part of that team wallace should structure up far better than he does.
if richo is a mid its my belief wallace should structure up the forward line with riewoldt schulz and post instead of robbing peter to pay paul.
ive said this before and i will say it again to me richo is taking cotchins spot on a wing i want to see our best kicks coming from hb and the centre delivering the ball. i want to see every forward entry count. this is never going to happen with the likes of richo on a wing or tuck in the centre raines white and mcmahon coming of hb. and when things get tight and long ball to position is required we have no chance with just riewoldt as the sole tall forward.
when is terry going to structure up the forward line and have them play as a unit. after 5 yrs i suppose one can answer never.

Unfortunately for us Richo is about 5 years too far into his career (can he play until 40?) given Jack is potentially the best KP partner in his time there. Could have created such a dangerous aerial duo.

We definitely would be one of the worst teams in entering the F50 - simply the result of poor disposal. It's not a lack of practice, they train plenty enough, it's a lack of kicking ability - something that will not improve enough for Raines/McMahon/Jackson/White (geez you gotta like the rest of his game though) to be damaging players. Even Newman, for a somewhat revered kick, has his fair share of clangers into the F50.

I agree with your previous assessment that NGB needs to spend more time around the middle, every time he gets the ball and delivers into the F50 you feel confident he will hit a target.

Deledio/Cotchin/Cousins/NGB - we need the ball in these guys hands more often coming into the F50.

 

[the claw]

Well IMO it's not coincidence that Wallace moved him up to the wing and our forward line is functioning better but you make some valid points Goodies. The reality is it probably lies somewhere in between.

no as far as structure goes the forward structure is still crap.the simple fact is we struggle to kick goals hence a midfielder in richo invariably has to go forward to take pressure of young kpfs like jack and still kick most of our goals.
geelong lost a gf because they had mediocre key forwards. wce lost one before that.
imo the forward line functioned just fine when richo went forward after all he kicked 48 goals in limited time forward. a quick genuine crumbing forward is badly needed a ff is badly needed and a genuine third tall option is needed.
structure when richo is not forward, in the big man department we are undersized, short,lack marking power and physical presence. if richo spends 60 to 70% of his time on a wing this is what happens. i dont need stats to see this my eyes tell me it.

i think because we have had richo we have not put as much effort into developing key forwards as we should not his fault but still its made him part of the problem. part of the obvious answer is recruit more kpfs keep doing it until find the 3 or 4 you need who can play.
if richo is now a mid why dont we structure up properly in the forward line.

 

[TIGEREXTRA]

I read that the blooze are going to appeal.

I can see the AFL winning this one and he will be out for 4 weeks instead.

 

[Freezer]

the simple fact is we struggle to kick goals

5th in points for last year.

geelong lost a gf because they had mediocre key forwards. wce lost one before that.

They also won one each. One Premiership not enough for you claw?

imo the forward line functioned just fine when richo went forward after all he kicked 48 goals in limited time forward.

This worked because he was able to run his opponents into the ground first, creating (at worst) a one-on-one for himself. Plonk him up forward and he gets double/triple teamed constantly.

a quick genuine crumbing forward is badly needed a ff is badly needed and a genuine third tall option is needed.
structure when richo is not forward, in the big man department we are undersized, short,lack marking power and physical presence. if richo spends 60 to 70% of his time on a wing this is what happens.

All the more reason to stick Schulz FF and let him be the battering ram. He's more than happy to crash a pack and with the likes of JR, Morton, Brown, Post, Nahas (possibly) and a resting on-baller, there are plenty of avenues to goal. Throw in Schulz's 30-40 and it's a reasonable start. Yes, we still need better, but we haven't got it just yet.

if richo is now a mid why dont we structure up properly in the forward line.

Because neither Hughes, Schulz, Polak or Pattison have had extended periods there. TW hasn't given them more than a game or two. As you say, they may not be the greatest but until we recruit those that are, it's all we've got.

 

[Tigers of Old]

the simple fact is we struggle to kick goals hence a midfielder in richo invariably has to go forward to take pressure of young kpfs like jack and still kick most of our goals.

i think because we have had richo we have not put as much effort into developing key forwards as we should not his fault but still its made him part of the problem. part of the obvious answer is recruit more kpfs keep doing it until find the 3 or 4 you need who can play.
if richo is now a mid why dont we structure up properly in the forward line.

Sending mixed messages there clawsy. :headscratch

Let me attempt to get this correct.

You want to develop young key forwards but the structure is crap because Richo still has to go forward but Richo is part of the problem because we can't develop key forwards whilst he's there? :headscratch

We are attempting now to develop young forwards in key positions whether it be Schulz/Hughes/Post? & Riewoldt whilst Richo is still able to contribute from a wing.

I would have thought you'd be pleased about that.

Obviously it's more of a case that you're not yet happy with the personnel but at least we are attempting to put the pieces in place for life post Richo, even if you're not happy with those there yet.

 

[Brodders17]

We definitely would be one of the worst teams in entering the F50 - simply the result of poor disposal. It's not a lack of practice, they train plenty enough, it's a lack of kicking ability - something that will not improve enough for Raines/McMahon/Jackson/White (geez you gotta like the rest of his game though) to be damaging players. Even Newman, for a somewhat revered kick, has his fair share of clangers into the F50.

as requested in a previous post (not having a go at you for not having them, ive got no idea where to find them) but if someone could check our goals per inside 50, i reckon we rate quite highly. definitly the hawthorn game we had a lot fewer inside 50s but scored from a very high % of them.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

as requested in a previous post (not having a go at you for not having them, ive got no idea where to find them) but if someone could check our goals per inside 50, i reckon we rate quite highly. definitly the hawthorn game we had a lot fewer inside 50s but scored from a very high % of them.

I've been trying but don't want to pay annual fees to pro stats to get them and can't find them anywhere else.

 

[Brodders17]

as requested in a previous post (not having a go at you for not having them, ive got no idea where to find them) but if someone could check our goals per inside 50, i reckon we rate quite highly. definitly the hawthorn game we had a lot fewer inside 50s but scored from a very high % of them.

I've been trying but don't want to pay annual fees to pro stats to get them and can't find them anywhere else.

can any of our stats gurus can help??

 

[the claw]

Sending mixed messages there clawsy. :headscratch

Let me attempt to get this correct.

You want to develop young key forwards but the structure is crap because Richo still has to go forward but Richo is part of the problem because we can't develop key forwards whilst he's there? :headscratch

We are attempting now to develop young forwards in key positions whether it be Schulz/Hughes/Post? & Riewoldt whilst Richo is still able to contribute from a wing.

I would have thought you'd be pleased about that.

Obviously it's more of a case that you're not yet happy with the personnel but at least we are attempting to put the pieces in place for life post Richo, even if you're not happy with those there yet.

no you misunderstand as usual. :

ive given a reason why we have not developed young kpfs its called richo because hes been there the club has not seen the need. have a look at all sides i pick richo is there usually on a hff. or at ff.
structure is crap because we go in with an undersized riewoldt in a lot of games as the sole tall forward.atm i complain because richo is on a wing and structure is nonexistant.
i think almost since ive been on this site ive advocated a traditional forward structure of three tall forwards.
its why i said if richo is on a wing we should be playing with a tall set up of something like this.
c RICHO thomson brown
hf connors JACK morton
f foley SCHULZ POST

ive always said if richo is forward as he should be we set up like this.this is my preffered set up.
c cotchin thomson brown
hf connors JACK RICHO
f foley POST morton

WE CAN ARGUE THE TALLS WHO PLAY BUT 3 TALLS SHOULD PLAY FORWARD THATS STRUCTURE. if we want to go small and play one on the bench or swing richo to the wing for a stint thats structure it still leaves two talls forward.it becomes an option thats structure.. schulz instead of post or hughes instead of post. play three talls forward.

ive often said i think it so important that good kicks and clever footballers like brown and cotchin who can get plenty of the pill are the ones delivering the ball into the forward line.its this reason why i dont want to see richo in the midfield.

just on us developing young kpfs. schulz a 7 yr player not good enough. hughes looks one dimensional. post only query i have at this stage is disposal thats it as far as kpfs go for ten yrs we have hardly drafted any because the fools have not seen the need because of richo, again not his fault but you have to ask yourself how much more damaging would richo be with a couple of decent tall foils in the forward line.the truth of the matter is we havent had a decent tall forward outside of richardson for a very long time.

 

[Tigers of Old]

no you misunderstand as usual. :

No need to be a smarse. It's clearer now.

 

[the claw]

No need to be a smarse. It's clearer now.

who me surely you jest. :hihi

 

[Tigers of Old]

who me surely you jest. :hihi

It'll be good when the footy starts, might give us all some footballers to focus on instead of other posters.

BTW I reckon the traditional forward line structure that your advocating pretty well follows that of the Hawks last year. It's not rocket surgery but we seem to have had a problem developing one for years.