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Our current midfiled
- Thread starter MalenyTiger
- Start date
No 4 said:
I agree, yet to suggest their midfield is better than ours is a bit silly. Yes! we got beaten in the clearences, if Hird hadn't of been their I think it would of been pretty even.
I think every year we need to add a couple of midfielders, until we get the balance right. Then we will also have some trading power if we have some players that are good, yet dont fit the team balance. It would be fantastic to be in a position to be actually able to trade some players with some sort of value, unlike the situation that has built up over the last couple of decades.
Next yr and beyond - more time in the middle to Deledio and Tambling who are both wonderful in close as well as the addition of Raines into the guts and of course Cogs coming back should help the cause dramatically - also a player like Selwood in this draft would help as well!!....done even mention Aker - how dare you!
Just on Hird and Deledio, did anyone see on the TV coverage when Hird was licking his fingers, and then they showed Brett licking his? It was the master and the apprentice.
skiptomystu said:
I also noticed when Hird when into the centre for the first time, Lids indicated he was going in too. It may be part of his education, however, when essendon got its run, TW made the change with Johnno.
Frawley, like sheedy and hawthorn's coach wouldn't made any change to stop the flow which Hird was dominating. They would call it "bettering onself". That's crap, you don't lose a game to teach and give experience only to one player.
skiptomystu said:
Yep absolutely loved that....no doubt he was mimicking....all the bomber fans at my old club used to do it....all wannabe Hirds!
Our midfield misses Coughlan and Newman. Their absence has left too much to Tuck, Tivendale and Johnson. Hyde, Foley, Deledio and Tambling are stepping into the breach but still lack consistency, as we saw on Saturday night.
I agree with Rayzorwire's comments regarding Simmonds and his centre bounce work. Knobel is far better at this but that misses the point, Simmonds provides an extra running option by linking up through the wings when the team rebounds out of defence. Knobel is next to useless in this role, nor can he go forward and cause match up problems. Knobel simply doesn't fit the structure of the team and should be traded, in my opinion. The periods when Essendon did well at the centre bounce correspond to Pattison rucking. Essendon were not the only ones experimenting and giving experience to youngsters.
I believe that we need four more players to be truly competitive. The most important is to find a gilt-edged silky midfielder/centreman. Deledio can be this player in due course but probably will be more suited to a James Hird-style all-purpose role, playing across half-back, up forward and in the middle, depending on circumstances. Best to look at using an early draft pick to solve this problem longer term. It seems like there are a few players who could do this for us.
The second priority is a number one defensive tall. If a quality tall can be found to play at Centre Half Back, then the Bowdens, Hall and Thursfield will be able to hold down the other tall defensive positions between them for years. Our defence gets into trouble from time to time because we constantly rob Peter to pay Paul. If we had a Matt Maguire type roaming across half-back keeping his opponent honest then the Bowdens could be free to provide all the run we need.
Number three is another hard, in-and under midfielder. Coughlan, Tuck, Johnson and Foley need one more player of similar ilk to support them in the clinches. If it could be another speedy, hard-running rover like Foley, it would be even better.
Lastly, we need another ruckman. Mobile like Simmonds but much taller, even better if he could go forward and hurt the opposition with a goal a game.
We are at the stage where we no longer need to restructure the whole team. If we only recruited four players, it would suffice, as long as they met this criteria. I would have no problem with two or three players being traded to get just one more early draft choice. Surely Knobel, Hartigan, Rodan and Tivendale together can be used to upgrade to another pick in the first 20 or so? That would be just about enough to give us a strong chance of getting what we need.
I agree with Rayzorwire's comments regarding Simmonds and his centre bounce work. Knobel is far better at this but that misses the point, Simmonds provides an extra running option by linking up through the wings when the team rebounds out of defence. Knobel is next to useless in this role, nor can he go forward and cause match up problems. Knobel simply doesn't fit the structure of the team and should be traded, in my opinion. The periods when Essendon did well at the centre bounce correspond to Pattison rucking. Essendon were not the only ones experimenting and giving experience to youngsters.
I believe that we need four more players to be truly competitive. The most important is to find a gilt-edged silky midfielder/centreman. Deledio can be this player in due course but probably will be more suited to a James Hird-style all-purpose role, playing across half-back, up forward and in the middle, depending on circumstances. Best to look at using an early draft pick to solve this problem longer term. It seems like there are a few players who could do this for us.
The second priority is a number one defensive tall. If a quality tall can be found to play at Centre Half Back, then the Bowdens, Hall and Thursfield will be able to hold down the other tall defensive positions between them for years. Our defence gets into trouble from time to time because we constantly rob Peter to pay Paul. If we had a Matt Maguire type roaming across half-back keeping his opponent honest then the Bowdens could be free to provide all the run we need.
Number three is another hard, in-and under midfielder. Coughlan, Tuck, Johnson and Foley need one more player of similar ilk to support them in the clinches. If it could be another speedy, hard-running rover like Foley, it would be even better.
Lastly, we need another ruckman. Mobile like Simmonds but much taller, even better if he could go forward and hurt the opposition with a goal a game.
We are at the stage where we no longer need to restructure the whole team. If we only recruited four players, it would suffice, as long as they met this criteria. I would have no problem with two or three players being traded to get just one more early draft choice. Surely Knobel, Hartigan, Rodan and Tivendale together can be used to upgrade to another pick in the first 20 or so? That would be just about enough to give us a strong chance of getting what we need.
tigerjoe said:
Not if it means we have to give up a draft pick in this upcoming draft, whether it be a 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounder. We must keep every pick. Getting Aker at the expense of a potential gun is crazy. Why would we play russian roulette and quite easily lose a 10-12 yr champion of the club, for 2 years of good footy from Aker? Insane. Let's stop this short-sightedness and quick-fix mentality and look long term. PATIENCE. Let's do this right once and for all.
GO TIGES!!!
Did anyone else notice Tivva doing a lot of work in the centre. Honestly watched him chase a lot of ball and not get it away when he did get hold of it. Tivva in the centre is a nasty joke IMHO ???.
TOT70 said:
True to an extent but it wasn't exactly tremendous even with them available.
We're dead last in clearances & second last in first possessions of all teams for 2006.
Do not overate our midfield, it has serious issues.
How do we fix it? Good question!
Be a bit patient folks
Take a hard look at who we're playing in the guts. Tuck, Lids, Foley, Tambling are VERY inexperienced. As they develop (together) you will see more of those little taps and kicks to advantage that Hird is so good at. I loved the sight of Lids and Foley streaming out of the centre over the last month, with more to come over the years. Dont forget either that as outside mids we have players like Polo, Howat, White to replace Tivendale and Hyde who to me always panic under pressure.
Take a hard look at who we're playing in the guts. Tuck, Lids, Foley, Tambling are VERY inexperienced. As they develop (together) you will see more of those little taps and kicks to advantage that Hird is so good at. I loved the sight of Lids and Foley streaming out of the centre over the last month, with more to come over the years. Dont forget either that as outside mids we have players like Polo, Howat, White to replace Tivendale and Hyde who to me always panic under pressure.
first of all i will state that the midfield is the biggest deficiency we have, much more than our backline. our biggest weakness is the clearances. being 16th says it all.
the other thing we lack is someone with a huge motor that will run all day eg. crawford, west and cousins
but in saying that what we don't lack is run and pace in the midfield. how else would we have kicked 20+ goals the past 3 weeks? someone has to feed to it the forwards...
the other thing we lack is someone with a huge motor that will run all day eg. crawford, west and cousins
but in saying that what we don't lack is run and pace in the midfield. how else would we have kicked 20+ goals the past 3 weeks? someone has to feed to it the forwards...
How much time has Deledio, Tambling, Meyer, Polo, Raines and even Foley had in the guts this yr? Hardly any at all......Lids and Rainesy have played down back - tambling and meyer up forward - polo doing tagging jobs and foley is on and off the bench!! We have been a one man show with Tucky ever since Cogs went down...seriously guys give it another yr or two....those guys we recruited were star on ballers as juniors... thats why we got them........Ill be patient on this one.
I'm prepared to be patient with the young fellas but I still think a stronger bodied, more experienced player is needed, especially with Cogs not being available until middle of next year. When you look at the games this year in which we were smashed it was always due to our midfield not being able to hold their own. To help the young fellas learn the craft lets not throw them to the wolves but rather give them a skilled mentor or two. - it may cost a draft pick here or there but i think it will be worth it.
Right to open the topic the spanking in the middle.
As TOT70 points out we were giving Patto a go in the ruck for part of the demolition period. At one stage we had Tivendale, Howat and Foley in there. Not much of a starting three by any stretch but one needing experience.
More importantly Wallace had decided to let Sugar have a break outside the middle.
I was pretty pissed off with a lot of Wallet's matchups on the night but I concede now that he may have been looking to give experience to some youngsters.
Part of Sheedy's plan on the night (he was planning to win IMO) was for the heavy, experienced Bummers to take on the light Tigers and simply break their tackles. They did this effectively all over the ground but most emphatically in periods at the centre bounces.
The ball was halling to advantage to us but our mids couldn't get past their opponents to take it. Hird was winning the ball and then, even under all the pressure we could muster, handballing incisively.
The problem was simple- not enough mass at the fall, not enough speed running through it. Hird and Watson are simply far too heavy for our small inexperienced lads. Htey were breaking our tackles when we could get through the wall to lay one.
But it was not all bad news. Tambling was moved into the centre and started to give us some glamourous clearances from the centre. It was a highlight for mine. A kid who can play in the middle and win the ball.
In terms of what talent we have, I believe we are deficient in genuine heavy bodied clearance midfielders.
Kane Johnson will spend the rest of his career in a negating role IMO.
Cogs will take another year to come up from his ACL just like every other knee victim.
Tuck is a second year player who has a single trick for clearances ATM- sledgehammer play.
Tivendale (who probably has our best numbers for the year at CBs) is not up to the challenge at elite level in the role. Okay for a change role but not talented enough for strike role.
Foley is a fifteen gamer. Will take years to reach his peak but a logical change rover.
Deledio is years off being subjected to the punishment of inside midfield and will probably play a couple of metres off the fall anyway (like Buckley).
Polo has shown no particular aptitude for inside clearance play as yet but is a baby. He's still not filled out.
Tambling has the smarts and pace but is way too light for regular CB duties at this stage.
Raines is in his first full year and at times is still being punished for a lack of mass even in the relative safety of the backline. I wouldn't like to feed him to the wolves just yet. It's not like Grant Thomas is coaching.
I would like to see us take a less talented type in the PSD who can absorb some punishment for the youngsters in the short term. And maybe even dish some out. Agree with you Maleny on the need for more muscle.
As TOT70 points out we were giving Patto a go in the ruck for part of the demolition period. At one stage we had Tivendale, Howat and Foley in there. Not much of a starting three by any stretch but one needing experience.
More importantly Wallace had decided to let Sugar have a break outside the middle.
I was pretty pissed off with a lot of Wallet's matchups on the night but I concede now that he may have been looking to give experience to some youngsters.
Part of Sheedy's plan on the night (he was planning to win IMO) was for the heavy, experienced Bummers to take on the light Tigers and simply break their tackles. They did this effectively all over the ground but most emphatically in periods at the centre bounces.
The ball was halling to advantage to us but our mids couldn't get past their opponents to take it. Hird was winning the ball and then, even under all the pressure we could muster, handballing incisively.
The problem was simple- not enough mass at the fall, not enough speed running through it. Hird and Watson are simply far too heavy for our small inexperienced lads. Htey were breaking our tackles when we could get through the wall to lay one.
But it was not all bad news. Tambling was moved into the centre and started to give us some glamourous clearances from the centre. It was a highlight for mine. A kid who can play in the middle and win the ball.
In terms of what talent we have, I believe we are deficient in genuine heavy bodied clearance midfielders.
Kane Johnson will spend the rest of his career in a negating role IMO.
Cogs will take another year to come up from his ACL just like every other knee victim.
Tuck is a second year player who has a single trick for clearances ATM- sledgehammer play.
Tivendale (who probably has our best numbers for the year at CBs) is not up to the challenge at elite level in the role. Okay for a change role but not talented enough for strike role.
Foley is a fifteen gamer. Will take years to reach his peak but a logical change rover.
Deledio is years off being subjected to the punishment of inside midfield and will probably play a couple of metres off the fall anyway (like Buckley).
Polo has shown no particular aptitude for inside clearance play as yet but is a baby. He's still not filled out.
Tambling has the smarts and pace but is way too light for regular CB duties at this stage.
Raines is in his first full year and at times is still being punished for a lack of mass even in the relative safety of the backline. I wouldn't like to feed him to the wolves just yet. It's not like Grant Thomas is coaching.
I would like to see us take a less talented type in the PSD who can absorb some punishment for the youngsters in the short term. And maybe even dish some out. Agree with you Maleny on the need for more muscle.