Our senior players have let us down badly this year.

[jb03]

The Johnson issue has highlighted what a glaring deficiency we have in the midfield.  We have no one that the opposition target to stop, yet we seem to need to tag 3, 4 or even 5 of the oppostion midfielders.  And even if we stop them, as in the Melbourne game, we still get flogged as we have no significant playmakers.

 

[Redford]

Redford, I actually resist the temptation to label the players silly names. They are human after all. However, these guys have been on our list for far too long and would not have survived at most other clubs aside from perhaps carlton of late.
I disagree with gaspar. He's the only guy we have at the moment capable of holding down the gorillas like rocca and gehrig and was sadly missed on saturday. We must keep gaspar for another year or 2 until we can land some quality key defenders who can dispose of the ball properly and not kick out on the full under no pressue like ray hall seemed to do effortlessly on sat resulting in a gehrig goal.

I can understand where you are coming from iitb in the sense that you see so many other accompanying weaknesses in the RFC and that when all things are considered Subpar is our best option at fb - and therefore we can't afford to get rid of him. But if I had a dollar for every time I've heard the old "oh he's the best we've got for now" argument over the last 20 years I could retire. Its an acceptance of mediocrity. Its conservatism. And its the VERY approach (i.e. an inability or unpreparedness to find alternative/better solutions) that has conspired to make us such perennial failures over the last 26 years.  

We can't afford to endure Subpar and all his faults and habits for another two years, not especially when we have a band of young kids that we are trying to avoid falling into the old Richmond culture of mediocrity.

 

[itsintheblood]

The captain should be at the forefront. Not be made to try and stop the opposition from scoring or getting touches when we get flogged mercilessly.

"Be made" is the pertinent point to me iitb.  Hard to say Johnno let us down if he was following coaches’ orders.  I'd love to see him more attacking too, and wouldn't be surprised if he'd prefer to play a more positive role, but he can only do what is requested of him.

No doubt and I've certainly directed some blame towards the coaching staff. They've taken away one of our midfielders and turned him into a tagger. It's just wrong. Ever since that Adelaide game, we've become a "stop the opposition scoring at all costs" side instead of playing the footy which has won us a few games this year. Our game against melbourne, hawthorn, and the 100 point beltings have been prime examples.

However, you cannot dispute the fact the the captain hasnt really taken the bull by the horns in terms of damaging the opposition, even in his pre-captain days.

 

[itsintheblood]

Redford, I actually resist the temptation to label the players silly names. They are human after all. However, these guys have been on our list for far too long and would not have survived at most other clubs aside from perhaps carlton of late.
I disagree with gaspar. He's the only guy we have at the moment capable of holding down the gorillas like rocca and gehrig and was sadly missed on saturday. We must keep gaspar for another year or 2 until we can land some quality key defenders who can dispose of the ball properly and not kick out on the full under no pressue like ray hall seemed to do effortlessly on sat resulting in a gehrig goal.

I can understand where you are coming from iitb in the sense that you see so many other accompanying weaknesses in the RFC and that when all things are considered Subpar is our best option at fb - and therefore we can't afford to get rid of him. But if I had a dollar for every time I've heard the old "oh he's the best we've got for now" argument over the last 20 years I could retire. Its an acceptance of mediocrity. Its conservatism. And its the VERY approach (i.e. an inability or unpreparedness to find alternative/better solutions) that has conspired to make us such perennial failures over the last 26 years.  

We can't afford to endure Subpar and all his faults and habits for another two years, not especially when we have a band of young kids that we are trying to avoid falling into the old Richmond culture of mediocrity.

No argument from me there. Our only real hope for the short term future at full back is that Will Thursfield takes the opportunity to add some real body strength during his lengthy time off and come in next year fit and firing. Again though, we cant expect much from him too quickly following a reco. Gaspar is a must for at least one more year I'm afraid.

 

[Chiang Mai Tiger]

Remember not too far back we beat Adelaide and Geelong. They were great victories by the same guys some of you are signing off on now. Yes some of them will be gone next year but we have a team that is getting there.

 

[itsintheblood]

Remember not too far back we beat Adelaide and Geelong. They were great victories by the same guys some of you are signing off on now. Yes some of them will be gone next year but we have a team that is getting there.

We have a long long way to go and we have a lot of holes to plug right down the spine.

The Adelaide victory was nice but not one which will happen too often. It was ugly ugly football and just came down to a bit of luck in the end.

 

[Redford]

No argument from me there. Our only real hope for the short term future at full back is that Will Thursfield takes the opportunity to add some real body strength during his lengthy time off and come in next year fit and firing. Again though, we cant expect much from him too quickly following a reco. Gaspar is a must for at least one more year I'm afraid.

No he's not. Not if we drop or trade him off our list and recruit a ready made upgrade. 

This is my whole point. We don't have to accept mediocrity. And under Wallace, we won't.

 

[itsintheblood]

No he's not. Not if we drop or trade him off our list and recruit a ready made upgrade. 

This is my whole point. We don't have to accept mediocrity. And under Wallace, we won't.

Who would take Darren Gaspar and give us anything of value in return???? No one.

 

[Leysy Days]

No he's not. Not if we drop or trade him off our list and recruit a ready made upgrade. 

This is my whole point. We don't have to accept mediocrity. And under Wallace, we won't.

Hmmmmm.....some interesting hints there Bread Board.

Leysy thinks someone might have their ear pretty close to the ground  ;D

 

[Redford]

Who would take Darren Gaspar and give us anything of value in return???? No one.

I probably didn't make myself clear. The removal of Gaspar for something (or nothing as the case may be more likely, I agree) does not have to be the direct driver for getting a replacement for him. We have 40 or so players on our list, draft choices. And cash. Again, broaden your horizons a bit iitb. WE DONT HAVE TO ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY. There's a myriad of ways and means in footy nowadays to revamp or make changes to your list.

 

[itsintheblood]

I probably didn't make myself clear. The removal of Gaspar for something (or nothing as the case may be more likely, I agree) does not have to be the direct driver for getting a replacement for him. We have 40 or so players on our list, draft choices. And cash. Again, broaden your horizons a bit iitb. WE DONT HAVE TO ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY. There's a myriad of ways and means in footy nowadays to revamp or make changes to your list.

I hear what you're saying but sadly, the players the club would be prepared to part with wouldn't enable us to gain a ready made replacement. I'm going to be paying very particular attention to our moves in the draft and trading period this year that's for sure.

 

[Rosy]

No he's not. Not if we drop or trade him off our list and recruit a ready made upgrade. 

This is my whole point. We don't have to accept mediocrity. And under Wallace, we won't.

Do you expect Gas to be gone next year Redders? If Terry doesn't feel that way and Gas stays does that mean he's accepting mediocrity?

 

[Redford]

No he's not. Not if we drop or trade him off our list and recruit a ready made upgrade. 

This is my whole point. We don't have to accept mediocrity. And under Wallace, we won't.

Do you expect Gas to be gone next year Redders?  If Terry doesn't feel that way and Gas stays does that mean he's accepting mediocrity?

In answer to your first question, quite possible.

In answer to your second question, no, because we have so much mediocrity its impossible for TW to address it all in one off season so the possibility of him being there next year still exists (unfortunately).

 

[CarnTheTiges]

I think I'd be classified as a brightsider, but I've been thinking about the imposters that are currently on the list and to be blunt are dragging the side down. What has to be done in any review of the list is for the staff to look at the players that simply aren't going to improve much over the next couple of years. I think it will be a mixture of serial offenders, I don't need to name them, it's been done many times before and some younger players that simply haven't delivered, they may make it somewhere else, but unlikely and it certainly won't be at Richmond. I'm hoping for a pretty savage pruning and some aggressive trading to position the side well in the draft. Okay, we've got a year or two more of pain, but it will be worth it in the long run.

 

[Scoop]

Anyone who doesn't think our senior players don't have a lot to answer too are kidding themselves.

Sugar is the only one who has shown some vim and vigour even when the contest is not going our way. He cannot change a game off his own boot our skipper but he does not lie down and get run over like some of our group. Just his body language speaks volume about him, even when we are getting flogged he does not let his emotions or actions make him look like a defeated man.

 

[cantstandeddie]

Seriously, who do you rate as "senior players"?
Kane Johnstone - Has done a good job with limited support... credit
Richo... Has fought injuries... pass
Browny... see above
Coughlan... see above
Kellaway... reasonably good...pass
Simmonds... excellent...distinction
Chaffey... injured all year... what can you say?
Gaspar... his usual inconsistent self... probably in his last year.
Stafford... Shouldn't have been given his current contract, but we had holes to plug...

Who else is really senior?

Tivendale, Rodan, Hall etc are all mid tier/midway players...not seniors...


Everyone was carrying on negatively about getting Aker and Gardiner to Richmond, as you can see we really are lacking some seniors who can add value to the younger crew.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Seriously, who do you rate as "senior players"?
Kane Johnstone - Has done a good job with limited support... credit
Richo... Has fought injuries... pass
Browny... see above
Coughlan... see above
Kellaway... reasonably good...pass
Simmonds... excellent...distinction
Chaffey... injured all year... what can you say?
Gaspar... his usual inconsistent self... probably in his last year.
Stafford... Shouldn't have been given his current contract, but we had holes to plug...

Who else is really senior?

Tivendale, Rodan, Hall etc are all mid tier/midway players...not seniors...

Good post.
It's actually the middle tier players who've been unable to fill the void of the senior players who've often been injured. That's probably because we don't have many in that middle tier(of quality anyway).

What's become very apparent as the season's worn on is the dearth of players in that middle section between the vets and the kids. This as we all know was due to some pathetic short term trades & recruiting from a few years back.
TW has been on about this since he started with us, so it's no secret.

A big problem is that many of the heads that will roll at season's end will again likely come from the middle tier, that's been found wanting. That's a concern IMO.

It's blatantly obvious our list is so far out of whack it's not funny.

This core unit of youngsters is so important to us and we must develop them properly.
It's going to take time and pain but hopefully we're on the right track.