Pagan article in the Hun on Sunday - Relevance to RFC

[The_General]

I don't know if any of you saw the double page spread with Pagan in yesterday's article.

A lot of it was crap I scanned over.

One question though he was asked, was the choice of recycled players vs drafting picks 70+ in the year they had the draft penalties.

He said that he'd told the board at Carlton that they could get some players who'd have an immediate impact, but not many of them would be around in a couple of years time, vs getting kids so late in the draft who probably wouldn't make an impact and would be gone just as quick. The inference was, that they'd get a temporary boost, which would help memberships, corporate sponsorships and improve the bottom line of the club. I took away that the board were also aware that the club would sink again after the temporary boost.

I have absolutely no doubt, Wallace has done the exact same thing with the Richmond football club. I have no doubt, that we've had a huge debt, and wanted a quick buck to help arrest the slide of the club. Like the Blues, I'm guessing there's a dip coming, as we've gotten the most out of some of the players on our list, and we're going to have to go backwards for a year or two, before we can go forward again.

Question is, given our membership is going well, given that we've made a profit and probably turned the off field around (still got a little ways to go though) has the first 2 years been a success?

The question is, will the sink come this year or next. Because to get rise again in 2011, it's going to be now or never, to get the necessary talent for the decade of success.



Given

 

[Phar Ace]

Yeah, that's pretty right I reckon - and that is what TW said when he arrived, that the goal was to get competative ASAP without bottoming out (to avoid a total meltdown I guess). Still think this year is going to be a real *smile* and that we only improved last year because a few others dipped more! If we can stay 9-12th it will be heroic!

 

[itsintheblood]

I think it's painfully obvious that we're gonna come back a notch or two over the next couple of seasons. I've been preparing myself for it for the last 4 months.

 

[BloodOath]

I agree I think somewhere between 16th and 14th i think is realistic.

The blues were faviourite before the wizard cup to win their thrid wooden spoon in a row. They beat us pretty easily really, not much to look forward to this year! (I think i will start looking at the draft (this is much more interesting!)

 

[capitaltige]

I thought the general concensus was that the Blues were a few years behind us in the rebuilding stage. why is it now people are talking as if we are now at the stage they were a couple of years ago? Does this merry go round ever end?

And on another point how did the skunks go from wooden spooners in 1999 to almost taking the flag (going down by 9 points) in 2002, thats a 3 year period, at the end of this year its 3 years since we got the spoon and the general feeling is we are headed for another, where is the progress? I cant believe we are as bad as people are implying and once we get back to near a full strength side things will surely turn around. :clap

 

[pahoffm]

I reckon that if we can pick up a couple of recycled 21-24yos to fill specific holes until our current 18-21yos can come up to fill the void, then the practice is worthwhile.

Once the void is filled, then it merely becomes a process of replenishing with more juniors.

OTOH, we do still have a significant hole in our 195+cm junior set.
Unless we make some attempt to fill this gap in our junior set now, we are going to be continually dependent upon recycled players.

 

[dcstar]

I reckon that if we can pick up a couple of recycled 21-24yos to fill specific holes until our current 18-21yos can come up to fill the void, then the practice is worthwhile.

Once the void is filled, then it merely becomes a process of replenishing with more juniors.

OTOH, we do still have a significant hole in our 195+cm junior set.
Unless we make some attempt to fill this gap in our junior set now, we are going to be continually dependent upon recycled players.

You know, there is generally a very good reason these days that any 21-24yo players are available to be recycled, and in most cases those reasons aren't very good........

This is basically the classic Short-term vs Long-term debate, and any coach in charge of a list that need drastic improvement has to work out a way to improve the long-term prospects whilst keeping those who crave short-term results at bay.

The only real way to do this is in the "Honeymoon" period that a coach has, so they really need to make the tough decisions while they still have enough support (at supporter as well as board level) to get away with it.

Pagan just managed to survive the board and supporter blades last year, and now the list he has put together have shown a bit, a similar situation may arise at Richmond in the next 18 months.

 

[Spirit of Jack]

The only real way to do this is in the "Honeymoon" period that a coach has, so they really need to make the tough decisions while they still have enough support (at supporter as well as board level) to get away with it.

Pagan just managed to survive the board and supporter blades last year, and now the list he has put together have shown a bit, a similar situation may arise at Richmond in the next 18 months.

I think the General could be right. However I think the tactic was wrong in TW's case. Pagan survived going down that track by the skin of his teeth. He also managed a few years of priority picks in a row. Wallace is going to have the blowtorch on him in the next few years when his honeymoon is over. If he had only been tougher at the start then I think he could of avoided that, and put the club in a better position for the long term. All is not lost, it will just take longer.

 

[uhuh uhuh]

I reckon that if we can pick up a couple of recycled 21-24yos to fill specific holes until our current 18-21yos can come up to fill the void, then the practice is worthwhile.

Once the void is filled, then it merely becomes a process of replenishing with more juniors.

OTOH, we do still have a significant hole in our 195+cm junior set.
Unless we make some attempt to fill this gap in our junior set now, we are going to be continually dependent upon recycled players.

you have to be kidding. how is it that sydney and west coast never really had to bottom out and yet we have to go backwards every few years.

the facts are that our list is good and we should be looking at finals this year. anything else is a joke.
You know, there is generally a very good reason these days that any 21-24yo players are available to be recycled, and in most cases those reasons aren't very good........

This is basically the classic Short-term vs Long-term debate, and any coach in charge of a list that need drastic improvement has to work out a way to improve the long-term prospects whilst keeping those who crave short-term results at bay.

The only real way to do this is in the "Honeymoon" period that a coach has, so they really need to make the tough decisions while they still have enough support (at supporter as well as board level) to get away with it.

Pagan just managed to survive the board and supporter blades last year, and now the list he has put together have shown a bit, a similar situation may arise at Richmond in the next 18 months.

 

[IanG]

I have absolutely no doubt, Wallace has done the exact same thing with the Richmond football club. I have no doubt, that we've had a huge debt, and wanted a quick buck to help arrest the slide of the club. Like the Blues, I'm guessing there's a dip coming, as we've gotten the most out of some of the players on our list, and we're going to have to go backwards for a year or two, before we can go forward again.

IIRC Wallace said exactly this after last season.

 

[Brettstigers]

I fully agree with you General. Given how much debt we racked up in one year I am beginning to think that he made the right choice. A couple of more years losing $2M a year and the Gold Coast Tigerroos might have been a legitimate option. :duhman

Now we do the paying but at least on the corporate side we are doing well and have a hope of the club fortunes going from strenght to strength (another $1M surplus planned I read somewhere).

We are going to have to have a lot of good luck (and I haven't seen one scap of that so far) to stay out of the bottom four.