Perspective | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Perspective

Broadsword95 said:
"Proven" - get real. "Geelong won the premiership because they had 16 talls, 12 of good AFL standard. FACT." Yep, that must have been it. That must have been the main reason.

That said, I have major doubts over our ruck stocks. Elsewhere I think that we're well enough catered for. I don't agree that so many talls are needed, and I'm dubious as to Geelong having 12 talls of good AFL standard. I suspect that simply because they're in a premiership winning team that makes their fringe players so? Or is it that you're lending them that ability to try and make a point?

You love the image don't you? The cynical wise guy who no one listens to, cast aside by naive others doomed to repeat the same mistakes. Ah well, each to their own is it?
sheesh i am talking english im sure i am. i cant work out what is so hard to understand about geelongs tall stocks last yr.
n ablett c gairdner t harley m egan s king m blake t hawkins a mackie d milburn c mooney b ottens. h playfair m scarlett. a blind man would agree they had depth. anyone of these players would have got a game if injury struck. all of them would walk into our team atm.i make that 13 talls ready to go nearly all of them played a significant role or contributed to geelongs season what part of that is hard to understand. on top of that they had grima lonergan west spencer and you could throw in rooke and corey if need be. thats a total of 19 talls in their system.

geelong go into 2008 without n ablettretired. c gairdner let go h playfair letgo s king letgo all three because of salary cap pressure all 3 were snaffled up by other clubs. they delisted spencer thats 5 talls gone in one go yet they wont miss a beat and why is that. because they built up some depth. if that were us we would be in all sorts of trouble.

all im saying is you need roughly 12 talls on your list who can step up and play seniors at a decent level. most of the better clubs have this.you also need to have players in various modes of development.

carlton are attempting to get depth and a stockpile of 10 12 ready to go talls by overstocking on talls. atm they have 19 last yr they had 22 23. they will get it down to about 16. when they do im sure they are hoping for the kind of depth that geelong had this yr.yet richmond people bag carlton for the process they are going thru. all i am advocating is a process a plan if you like to build up our tall stocks and more importantly build depth..
most clubs go thru this process why are we different. we have 14 talls atm and the majority are speculative. a good percentage are bound to fail it happens at all clubs.anyone who thinks we have enough talls are kidding themselves. i personally believe we could do with another 6 or so.a couple of early picks a couple of mid picks and a couple of late or rookie picks.its how you build depth its how you go about not putting all your eggs in to few baskets.
for the life of me i cant understand how people cant see what needs to be done and why people get upset when i suggest what needs doing.

geelong won a premiership because they had cover and depth right across the park.yes a well rounded list not because of your facetios suggestion of they had 16 talls what a silly comment it wasnt even sarcastic just stupid. developing plenty of talls is just part of it. developing talls is the first part of any rebuild because of the simple fact they take much longer to develop than other types.

jeez you even criticise because i dare use geelong as an example arent we supposed to be following the geelong model.go look at wce for yourself or port they all have had lots of talls go thru their systems. hawthorn hve concentrated on talls first and smalls second.

anyway enough bickering with you you obviously cant grasp what im saying or refuse to so like i suggested before if you dont like what i post just dont read the posts. simple really.

anyway go ahead criticse all you like i know when im right.you also go mas about the constant negativity its constant because the same mistakes are made over and over a lot of the time by the same people.

Broadsword95 said:
Go play Fantasy Football if you expect that sort of rubbish. All seems so easy when you get your crayons out and scribble on a piece of paper. You harp on about list management, so you can't lose can you? You've got history on your side, and a coach and his team that are half way through a rebuilding process that can't yet be fully judged. Seems to me that you're out to win arguments more than anything else.
finally when one puts his nose into a debate and sprouts of at the moth like the above post well of course you are going to get a like reply. im actually dirty on myself i should have just ignored such a post it didnt deserve a reply oh well we live and learn.
 
talls shmalls Claw. Geelong won because of ABC - Ablett Bartel and Corey (assisted by Ling). Swap those for Johnson Tuck and Tivendale and we might have been singing last September.
 
Just thinking using the analysis of Claw, who by the way puts up a fairly cogent case as i think Geelong's model is the one that Victorian based clubs might well try to emulate, should Richmond have picked up King/Gardiner or even Playfair? I think Sydney used a 3rd or 4th round pick for Playfair, and St.Kilda virtually got King and Gardiner for free, as they gave pick 90, which Geelong didn't even use.

I know Kingsley was a bust, but a solid ruckman like King would greatly help the ruck depth, and Gardiner could play as a lead-up forward to assist Nathan Brown and Pettifer in terms of bringing the ball closer to Richo territory. They wouldn't have cost much, and would just add depth, and each were not particularly old, although King's 29 and been playing for 13 seasons. Any thoughts on this, mainly from a depth perspective and also to build up the number of talls at the Tiges?
 
lamb22 said:
talls shmalls Claw. Geelong won because of ABC - Ablett Bartel and Corey (assisted by Ling). Swap those for Johnson Tuck and Tivendale and we might have been singing last September.
you still dont get it lambsy geelong had a well rounded list with plenty of depth right across the board. they have a superb defence and lots of bigbodies they have plenty who can win their own ball. they are a team they work for each other and do all the 1 percenters.all good premiership sides have good midfields onballers you cant win a premiership without them but 95 % of the time you have to have the other bits as well.
 
You dont get it Claw - the cream make the rest look good. Great midfield means your forwards get deluged by opportinuties and your defence is similarly dealing with less frequent dangerous entries into forward 50. I'll say it again - swap Ablett Bartel and Corey for Tuck Johnson and Tivendale and you can virtually reverse roles for Tiges and cats and all this talk about some raw boned tall being taken at 16 or 20 or that one young ruck is better than another is all just static!
 
lamb22 said:
talls shmalls Claw. Geelong won because of ABC - Ablett Bartel and Corey (assisted by Ling). Swap those for Johnson Tuck and Tivendale and we might have been singing last September.

ottens killed collingwoods d grade rucks (like ours) in the prelim and was THE difference

talls shmalls - dont think so
 
lamb22 said:
talls shmalls Claw. Geelong won because of ABC - Ablett Bartel and Corey (assisted by Ling). Swap those for Johnson Tuck and Tivendale and we might have been singing last September.

as much as I love ya passion robbie, they were'nr the best three you couyld have pulled out :)
 
IrockZ said:
ottens killed collingwoods d grade rucks (like ours) in the prelim and was THE difference

talls shmalls - dont think so

Clark Keating was good in grand finals - would never have played in one without Voss, Black, Lappin & Akermanis!
 
IrockZ said:
ottens killed collingwoods d grade rucks (like ours) in the prelim and was THE difference

talls shmalls - dont think so

Who doesn't beat Collingwood's rucks?
 
premiers08 said:
as much as I love ya passion robbie, they were'nr the best three you couyld have pulled out :)

I think Ablett and Bartels were the two best going around last year. Brownlow favorite and brownlow medallist. Corey completed the analogy

I'd back a midfield of Foley Cogs Bartel Ablett and Corey against Kelly, Ling, Tuck, Johnson & Tivendale wouldn't you?
 
lamb22 said:
You dont get it Claw - the cream make the rest look good. Great midfield means your forwards get deluged by opportinuties and your defence is similarly dealing with less frequent dangerous entries into forward 50. I'll say it again - swap Ablett Bartel and Corey for Tuck Johnson and Tivendale and you can virtually reverse roles for Tiges and cats and all this talk about some raw boned tall being taken at 16 or 20 or that one young ruck is better than another is all just static!
hmm nine all australians tells me they were pretty strong right across the board.
i watched wce lose a gf 3 yrs ago for want of a key forward. sydneys excellent defence and style of play won them a premiership this was a game wce dominated in the middle.
 
lamb22 said:
You dont get it Claw - the cream make the rest look good. Great midfield means your forwards get deluged by opportinuties and your defence is similarly dealing with less frequent dangerous entries into forward 50. I'll say it again - swap Ablett Bartel and Corey for Tuck Johnson and Tivendale and you can virtually reverse roles for Tiges and cats and all this talk about some raw boned tall being taken at 16 or 20 or that one young ruck is better than another is all just static!

Richmonds forward line did not convert the F50 opportunities very well last year. They were 12th in doing so based on each entry.
 
lamb22 said:
I'll say it again - swap Ablett Bartel and Corey for Tuck Johnson and Tivendale and you can virtually reverse roles for Tiges and cats and all this talk about some raw boned tall being taken at 16 or 20 or that one young ruck is better than another is all just static!


Amazing that you think with Ablett and Bartel our problems would be solved. We would be better but still not a top flight team. You are giving far too much credence to speculative tall picks taken outside of the top 20. Bar Rance & Jack R our last KKP pick inside 20 was *smile* (if we counting Patto as a ruck) For Rucks you go back to Pat Steinfort and Ottens. That is our problem.
 
lamb22 said:
Who doesn't beat Collingwood's rucks?

my point exactly

if they had a semi decent ruck in the prelim against geelong the result would have been a lot different, theres only so far you can go with the mckee/bryan/richards types before you cop it
 
mooney, ablett, ottens, king, egan, scarlett - theres a spine
ablett, ling, bartel in the middle - theres a midfield
chapman, corey, kelly - flankers

not hard to see why they won the flag
 
Much more to the cats than those three. Sure- they would be weaker without them- but would the inclusion of those three players in our team take us from wooden spooners to contenders? I don't think so. We have many more problem areas that those three would not cover- a flimsy backline and a selfish forward line for starters.
 
Tango said:
mooney, ablett, ottens, king, egan, scarlett - theres a spine
ablett, ling, bartel in the middle - theres a midfield
chapman, corey, kelly - flankers

not hard to see why they won the flag

Corey, Chapman, Kelly are inside ball winners if used that way and are not relaly flankers in the Newman, JON, Meyer, Pettifer mold.

They had ruck support and brought in King over Blake. They could have used N Ablett or Hawkins for the 2nd KP forward if they wanted. They lost Egan but had Harley to cover. Milburn can cover anyone bar the gorillas and Davey quicks. They have tall utilities like Milburn, Mackie, Corey, Ling, Johnson (can cover his opponent forward or back and will go to FF to sneak a goal on them).

PLenty of cover all over the ground. Some power talls and genuine inside ball winners with size and grunt and a number of them. Ruck depth and some good small/med forwards.