players not up to it

[Massai]

From AFL Today 3 October 2008:

"Richmond has re-sgined 10 players, including vice-captain Chris Newman, for at least the 2009 season. Newman, 26, was the only one of the 10 aged over 25. The others were Kelvin Moore, Jack Riewoldt, Shane Edwards, Jay Schulz, Daniel Connors, Matthew White, Andrew Collins, Angus Graham and Jake King. Football operations manager Craig Cameron said: "We are investing long-term in some sound talent and we are pleased that these players will be able to continue to grow and develop with the Richmond Football Club."

King and *smile* I think are both contracted to the club for 2010. I don't have any problems in giving either the chop quite frankly if I had my way I'd do it right the hell now - deliver a strong clear cut message 2 of you are gone due to your continued poor performances, the rest of you get your act's together or you will be gone as well.

As long as the club could afford to pay out the contracts then I'd sack them now, why wait, make a statement ffs for a change, show some solid leadership that clearly says from the Board, that sloppy players will no longer be tolerated.

To chop 12 players and sure it could be done, is asking a lot, when I for one do not believe we have the necessary player development and leadership resources in place right now to get the young players that come in as replacements up to speed like other clubs do.

If they chopped 12, I could live with it, but it will mean one hell of a lot of hard work for the new coach, football department staff and the players concerned to lift this club out of the very big hole its dug itself.

 

[bowden4president]

Re: It's CULL time.

I know it is said that you can't cull more than 6/7 players after a season but I really question that. There is so much deadwood at the RFC that I would like to see a MASSIVE cull come seasons end.

In all seriousness we can't get any worse, we haven't progressed anywhere in 8 seasons. I'd rather fail with new blood than fail with old.

We need to see what we can get in a trade for:

Raines, Simmonds, Polak, Pettifer, McMahon, Polo, McGuane, Jackson, Coughlan, Schulz, Pattison, Oakley Nicholls, Hughes, Thursfield, Tambling, Edwards,

Delist: Brown, Richardson, Bowden, Graham, King, Cousins

Leaving a skeleton of:

Newman, Moore,
White Rance
Collins Cotchin
Connors Riewoldt Morton
Nahas

Deledio
Foley

Inter from: Putt, Post, Vickery, Hislop, Thompson, Silvestor, Browne, Gilroy

I know it's savage and I know it won't happen in 1 go but it will happen eventually with all of the potential" trade names I've listed. They aren't going to take the RFC forward but we'll give them all "another" season and "another" season just to see if they can deliver on any promise ( in most cases)

That will take us into 2012 and we'll still be trying to tread water but in reality we'll be sinking.

keep Silvestor??

 

[craig]

Some people are deluded. There are only a small handful of players of any value on our list. Of the origninal group listed....very little value at all. Really nothing of substance. Value for some of those guys...get real...we would ahve to pay to offload some of that rubbish.

If we were to offer all our players for trade there would only be some serious interest in a core group of players. The majority are hacks.

In answering the original thread question I guess we could say any player coached by Terry Wallace!

The majority of the Tigers list is sub par DHN i agree, the majority will not garner anything much if anything at all.

Schulz shouldve been offloaded when the chance arose, Johnston and Pathetifer shoulda been cut last year and as for McMuffin for 19 ...........................

Im not too fussed trading id be happy enough just to axe em.

Im tired of this clubs ineptitude and time, money wasting on spuds who have glaring un manageable deficiencies, are past their best, duds, and space wasters and its unfortunate that 15 odd players on my list in my eyes fit fair and square in that category.

Many will say im going too far but i am not much of a fan at all of most on that list, some i can live with getting one more year, im not delude i know 15 blokes cant go in one hit but the Tigers can do better and MUST do better than these deficient, near enuffs and not good enuffs or the club is going nowhere.

 

[tigertim]

Re: It's CULL time.

If you culled almost half the list, who the hell are you going to replace them with. Trading for more AFL retread players is simply not on, and the other clubs are not really going to bite and give us draft picks for players like schulz, lets be real here.

Another thing, you're throwing out the baby with the bath water, particularly someone like Ben Cousins. You cannot get rid of every player over 24 which is pretty much what you want to do. Some older and more experienced players are
needed. That said I reckon 4 of the 6 over 30's are gone, Richo and Cuz will most likely stay on, the others will be retired or delisted.

As for the younger players eg: Polak, again I doubt another club will go near him after his tram accident. Polak would have to play a successive number of games with Richmond at least 4 in a row and pull thru okay at the end of it, to have any trade value whatsoever.

The other issue with a cull of the size you're proposing is the Gold Coast and Western Sydney. Forget getting low draft players, these two new teams will get the cream of the crop for the next couple of years and possibly longer if they fall flat on their faces (the AFL will want them to win and will set them up to win as quickly as possible to get a return on the considerable investment they are making in these two new clubs). That means a club like Richmond is going to have to put in the hard hard yards and develop the playing list it has already, plus maybe up to 8 new faces come next season.

No it comes back to what I've said in the past, the playing list needs to toughen up mentally and it needs to enhance its football skills. Both can be done, it will take effort and time but it can be done. A cull of almost half the playing list in 1 year, is simply not an option, given what is happening in the AFL within the next 3 years, better to do some selective weeding and use whatever one's draft selections are in the National Draft to top up the current list.

If you want to cull then cull over the next 3 years or so, by off loading 6-8 players each year, thats 24 players in 3 years, if Richmond stay at the bottom or close enough to it, then they will get some good draft picks, its the only way they can play it right now, no other real choice in the matter and believe me I'd like to offload a considerable number of these free loaders as well as anyone else in one go.

Obviously not all would be traded as some dont have any currency. But the "we cant get rid of them because we will get worse" theory is a fallacy. What's worse than Hughes, Patto, King, JON, etc?

I'd rather give some untried VFL/SANFL/TAC cup players a go than keep hoping that our current list will turn it around ( which we've been doing for some time now).

The draft number that a player is chosen from is, mostly, also a flawed theory.

Our top 10 players:
Richo ( father son pick), Deledio ( top 3 pick), Cotchin ( top 3 pick), Brown ( traded for), Cousins, ( pick 6 psd), Foley (rookie draft), Newman ( pick ? can';t remember but it was a low one), Moore ( rookie draft), Tuck ( pick 74?), Bowden ( father son pick),

 

[tigertim]

Re: It's CULL time.

keep Silvestor??

Yes, I know it seems odd but how do we know how Jarrod will go as an AFL player? He hasnt been given a chance. Odds are he wont be up to it but who knows until he gets a go?

 

[craig]

Safer to just pop Silvester on the axing list Timmy ol son.

A very good VFL player but disposal too shoddy, and too slow for AFL footy mate.

 

[brigadiertiger]

Richo, Bowden, Johnson, Simmonds, Brown, Cousins, Pettifer, JON, McMahon, King and HBughes/Schulz. If a trade is forthcoming then trade otherwise delist. Give Schulz and Hughes 6 games consecutively and he who does best stays. Raines and Foley/Tuck possibly traded to gain as early a pick as possible.

Edwards, Connors, Raines, Thomson, Hislop, Pattison all told they can thank the first 11 for this lot staying but they have 1 year to keep their spots. Polak would also need some positive results otherwise he to would be gone. Pattison would be given plenty of games at CHF to see if he has a future.

 

[bringbakflemmo]

Cousins

I cannot understand why we would get rid of a player who can get the ball regularly ,create space with his agility and actually hit up a fellow Richmond teammate most times.
Isn't skill a deficiency in our side?
He seems injury prone now but even 10 games a year from Cuz will be worth their weight in gold and show our youngsters the standard they need to aspire to.
Get rid of him if he's a trouble maker at the Club but otherwise hang on to him we need players who know how to win, who've experienced success in the AFL.

 

[the claw]

believe it or not im a little more conservative in my approach this than craig.

okay rookies. gourdis and gilligan to stay browne and nahas promoted, and silvestor gone. opens up 4 spots on the rookie list.

next to the list proper

nahas browne to the list, with picks roughly like this. 2 18 19 35 51 67. pick 1 in psd. would try to trade into a pick between 30 and 60.

thats 10 from the list proper and with 4 new rookies gives us a total of 12 new faces.remember we are promoting nahas and browne.

the 10 to go from the list proper.well take your pick. personally this is what i would do. brown, simmonds, johnson, bowden, pettifer, king, raines,mcmahon, schulz jon, would offer edwardss for trade.

 

[Backbone]

believe it or not im a little more conservative in my approach this than craig.

okay rookies. gourdis and gilligan to stay browne and nahas promoted, and silvestor gone. opens up 4 spots on the rookie list.

next to the list proper

nahas browne to the list, with picks roughly like this. 2 18 19 35 51 67. pick 1 in psd. would try to trade into a pick between 30 and 60.

thats 10 from the list proper and with 4 new rookies gives us a total of 12 new faces.remember we are promoting nahas and browne.

the 10 to go from the list proper.well take your pick. personally this is what i would do. brown, simmonds, johnson, bowden, pettifer, king, raines,mcmahon, schulz jon, would offer edwardss for trade.

i think it's 9 claw 6 ND, 1 PSD, 2 Rookie elevations. so which one stays?

 

[craig]

believe it or not im a little more conservative in my approach this than craig.

okay rookies. gourdis and gilligan to stay browne and nahas promoted, and silvestor gone. opens up 4 spots on the rookie list.

next to the list proper

nahas browne to the list, with picks roughly like this. 2 18 19 35 51 67. pick 1 in psd. would try to trade into a pick between 30 and 60.

thats 10 from the list proper and with 4 new rookies gives us a total of 12 new faces.remember we are promoting nahas and browne.

the 10 to go from the list proper.well take your pick. personally this is what i would do. brown, simmonds, johnson, bowden, pettifer, king, raines,mcmahon, schulz jon, would offer edwardss for trade.

That is a fair scenario Clawsy i am happy with that scenario.

I think the club going forward over next 2 years needs 15 -16 gone but am aware its gonna have to take 2 years.

Im also aware that this is the last un tainted draft so the majority of the house cleaning must take place this year.

 

[St. Jude]

Never , ever thought I'd be agreeing with claw but this would have to be one of the most level posts I've ever seen you make ol' mate.

The emotions of footy are clouding the fact that with the two new teams coming in, any footballers with AFL exp will be (to an extent) valuable. With half a brain the RFC could use Edwards, Schulz, Raines, Pettifer as trade bait for picks next year when they will be in short supply.

 

[Gunsmoke]

believe it or not im a little more conservative in my approach this than craig.

okay rookies. gourdis and gilligan to stay browne and nahas promoted, and silvestor gone. opens up 4 spots on the rookie list.

next to the list proper

nahas browne to the list, with picks roughly like this. 2 18 19 35 51 67. pick 1 in psd. would try to trade into a pick between 30 and 60.

thats 10 from the list proper and with 4 new rookies gives us a total of 12 new faces.remember we are promoting nahas and browne.

the 10 to go from the list proper.well take your pick. personally this is what i would do. brown, simmonds, johnson, bowden, pettifer, king, raines,mcmahon, schulz jon, would offer edwardss for trade.

Pretty close to my thinking and I would agree with the outs, pity a few of them have another contract year.

 

[Tiger_Shark]

believe it or not im a little more conservative in my approach this than craig.

okay rookies. gourdis and gilligan to stay browne and nahas promoted, and silvestor gone. opens up 4 spots on the rookie list.

next to the list proper

nahas browne to the list, with picks roughly like this. 2 18 19 35 51 67. pick 1 in psd. would try to trade into a pick between 30 and 60.

thats 10 from the list proper and with 4 new rookies gives us a total of 12 new faces.remember we are promoting nahas and browne.

the 10 to go from the list proper.well take your pick. personally this is what i would do. brown, simmonds, johnson, bowden, pettifer, king, raines,mcmahon, schulz jon, would offer edwardss for trade.

not bad claw. have to agre on the direction taken.

rookies ... tick

promotions from rookie list ... tick

go for 9-10 picks in ND/PSD .... tick

delist/trade/retire/whatever .. just gone
brown .... tick
simmonds .... tick
johnson .... tick
bowden .... tick
pettifer ... tick
king .... tick
raines .... tick
mcmahon .... tick
schulz .... keeping (between him and Cleve. only went this way cause Cleve can't stay fit. would be probably culled in the 2nd yr delistings)
jon .... tick
edwards .... keeping. by the skin of his pants. better learn to eat over the summer.

Cleve ... gone. injury prone, one dimensional, and not good enough
Polak .... unfortunate but i would get him to retire. enjoy your life that you won back.

2nd year cullings/trade/retire - players on notice (not saying they're gone but must step up or else)
Schulz
Edwards
Connors
Hislop
Patto
Thomson
Putt
White
Tambling
Richo (possible retiree)
more could be added ... but would see in 2nd year

We would select a new captain to replace Newman. Tough choice but i like Coughlan. well respected and leads by example.

that could be 20 players gone in 2 yrs. need tough measures.

 

[Pandaboy]

Far too many people here are just using age as a dismissive factor. If a guy is showing NO SIGNS of decline, has plenty to offer the club, and possess qualities that the RFC are severely lacking then why de-list just for the stupid notion that "he's over 30 so he's too old". Absolute pure rubbish if you ask me. Doesn't experience also count for anything here aswell?? Cousins, Richo and Bowden I would keep as they have plenty left in the tank. Johnston and Simmo I would be happy if they never played another game for the RFC again.

Do people really want us to bottom out so bad so that we will be favorite for the spoon for the next 5 years? Cos I for one don't.

edwards .... keeping. by the skin of his pants. better learn to eat over the summer.

Saw him on Bridge Rd Richmond last nite tucking into a Subway sandwich. Was tempted to go in there to and tell him he should be getting the buy one get one free offer and double his intake

 

[Tiger_Shark]

Far too many people here are just using age as a dismissive factor. If a guy is showing NO SIGNS of decline, has plenty to offer the club, and possess qualities that the RFC are severely lacking then why de-list just for the stupid notion that "he's over 30 so he's too old". Absolute pure rubbish if you ask me. Doesn't experience also count for anything here aswell?? Cousins, Richo and Bowden I would keep as they have plenty left in the tank. Johnston and Simmo I would be happy if they never played another game for the RFC again.

Do people really want us to bottom out so bad so that we will be favorite for the spoon for the next 5 years? Cos I for one don't.

Saw him on Bridge Rd Richmond last nite tucking into a Subway sandwich. Was tempted to go in there to and tell him he should be getting the buy one get one free offer and double his intake

:hihi

Bowden is a tough call. not a kpb really but can play there. need to give Rance & post a go there though. not rreally a kpf but can play there. we need to draft a CHF badly. plays best as a qtr back off half back. i think Newman plays this role as well. can't have both. went for Newman. hard decision. but these are necessary.

 

[tigertim]

Far too many people here are just using age as a dismissive factor. If a guy is showing NO SIGNS of decline, has plenty to offer the club, and possess qualities that the RFC are severely lacking then why de-list just for the stupid notion that "he's over 30 so he's too old". Absolute pure rubbish if you ask me. Doesn't experience also count for anything here aswell?? Cousins, Richo and Bowden I would keep as they have plenty left in the tank. Johnston and Simmo I would be happy if they never played another game for the RFC again.

Do people really want us to bottom out so bad so that we will be favorite for the spoon for the next 5 years? Cos I for one don't.

Saw him on Bridge Rd Richmond last nite tucking into a Subway sandwich. Was tempted to go in there to and tell him he should be getting the buy one get one free offer and double his intake

It's this line of thinking that amuses me. You seem to think we'll bottom out for the next 5 years. Need I remind you we are 2nd last with 1 win. So we have bottomed out with the current list but you don't want to change the list in case we bottom out?

I'd hate to keep bottoming out with the same core list of under-acheivers, I'd rather bottom out with a predominantly new list.