Playing to Win | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Playing to Win

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
At some stage or other, we've all been frustrated, demoralised and hurt by the goings on at our footy Club over the years. If we want the pain to stop, then just realise that we need to do our part and stop undermining our own Club and just let them all get on with their job. If, at some point, it becomes clear that there is no positive change or improvement, then we have reason to question our methods. Until then, significant changes have been made in recent times. Let the results over the 'whole' season and beyond, determine the success or failure of those changes. Our problems have been with us for two decades. They are not going to be solved over night. Have some faith in people and give them time.

We should realise that it has not just been the players, coaches and administrators that have been the problem with our footy Club over the years. It has also been us. We put so much pressure on our Club to succeed that we never give anyone a chance. How often has our impatience and pressure led to quick-fix, short-sighted solutions. We need to stop telling them how to go about things and just support the people who are there. Try doing your own job under the amount of intense scrutiny and pressure that we place on the people at our Club and see how you cope. Is it any wonder they would try to shut the world and us out when all we seem to do is criticise and undermine their efforts?

Whether we realise it or not, we're part of this Club too. Being part of a team is all about letting go of self-interest and working with everyone towards the one aim? However, every one of us has an opinion and we all think we're right. We might well be, but the thing is, when will everything be 'perfect' and we all agree with every decision our Club makes? Probably never. Realise that we only need the one plan to succeed and for that to happen we need everybody to have faith in it and work together towards that common goal.

It doesn't have to be the best plan and we don't even need to have the best players. Every plan is fallible and open to criticism. And what is perfect anyway? It's only a matter of perception and opinion. To move forward, we just need everyone working together. As much as any decision our Club has ever made, our negativity and criticism only contribute to holding us back and keeping us where we are.

Cont'd
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Lack of faith and trust, in those in charge to move us forward, is what keeps us where we are. How much harder is their job made, simply because people will not give them a chance? How do we know the plans and systems in place cannot work if we never give anyone the opportunity to find out? We don't need to start all over again. We just need to have faith in people and to work together for the Richmond Football Club. Instead, it seems that everybody wants to push their own barrow. How can we achieve anything by all going our own way? We are apparently all on the same side and have the same dream, yet we're all pulling in different directions.

Even though our hearts are in the right place and we all think we're helping, the opposite is perhaps the case. By all means, have an opinion and criticise if you need to. But recognise both the good and bad that we bring upon our own Club. Perhaps our real enemy all these years has been self-interest and self-preservation. Nevertheless, when we vent our collective spleens in various ways, we should realise that because of our ways we contribute to the short-sighted decisions that keep us where we have been all these years. Can we just stop? Hiring and firing takes time and only delays a solution to our problems and keeps us on this merry-go-round we've been on all these years.

In other words, our solutions stop us solving our problems. As an example, if you have a problem at work and the person responsible does not solve it, what do you do? Get rid of that person? OK, what then? That person is no longer there, but the problem still exists. What if the next person doesn't fix the problem either? What then? Do you keep hiring and firing or do you sit down and work out what the 'real' problem is and how to solve it? Hiring and firing doesn't solve anything. It appeases the masses for a short time, but unless people stop long enough to see the problem then a solution cannot be found.

That no one relented to the pressures of last season is a sign that things have changed … and for the better. At long last it seems that our Club has taken responsibility for the culture that exists and it is up to them to change it. Not through continually changing people, but through people changing. Put away all your knives and sharp instruments. No one will take any notice of any rumblings. And about time too. It may not be cause for celebration just yet, but we're further ahead now than we have been at any time in the past 20 years.

Who knows when all the pain and frustration will stop. But if you're one of us and plan to take on this journey, realise what you are in for. And if you are here for the long haul, then get in, sit down and hang on. Because the only guarantee is that, although it will never be boring, it will be anything but a smooth ride.

This is the Richmond Football Club. And if your heart's not in it, then it will find you out. Like it has so many over the years.

For those of us who can never give up on it, no matter how many times it frustrates us, breaks our hearts and fills us with despair, it will live in our hearts … forever.
 
A

admin

Guest
 Our problems have been with us for two decades.  They are not going to be solved over night.  Have some faith in people and give them time.
I'm not really sure what you're saying in this post MC24, but surely 2 decades has to be considered a long time in anyones books.

I hate the club being bagged, but I like healthy discussion and sharing of opinions.
Are you talking about discussion on the message board, or people contacting the club offering advice?

We have a reasonably high membership despite our lack of success, we have a good game day attendance record over the years. I think Richmond people are pretty generous with their support of the club.

I like discussing Richo's wobblies, who we would have liked in the draft, how I hate losing, the elation of a win etc.
Would be a boring message board without it.

I have been told plenty of times to take off the "rosy coloured glasses" I'm not blind to Richmonds faults, but I too like the roller coaster ride of supporting them.
I respect everyones rights to support them in their own way though.

There are a minority that tend to be abusive, either towards the club, or towards other posters on message boards. To me that speaks more about them as a person though.

It would be boring if we all agreed, but we should be able to discuss things and consider other opinions civilly even if we disagree. I've almost been ashamed to be a Tiger supporter after some things I've seen and heard at the player race over the years.

I'm proud of belonging to a club with such passionate supporters though, cos I know no matter how let down they fell they always come back for more.

I doubt the club would take opinions on here to heart, or worse still put them into practise, ha. ;D

GO TIGES!
 

froars

"Famous last words - I'll be good"
Dec 17, 2002
165
3
Melbourne
Well written MC24 - too good for a Richmond supporter lol.

Most of the pain as you said comes from self-preservation IMHO. In a competition where not long ago they were calling for clubs to go, it was very hard to see us continually down the bottom of the ladder - especially when we once had an era of such success. I think that's the problem and we as supporters were continually wanting a quick fix to get us back up the ladder so that the AFL or whoever wouldn't get rid of us.

But as much as we're part of the club, you can't overlook and not criticise some of the things they do down there. And while they keep on making mistakes, if we don't voice our concerns they will continue to make the mistakes.

Tis human nature to bag the club when they're down, but i promise i'll give them at least half the season before i put the boots in lol.
 

johnson2richo2003

"Players stop improving is the day i leave."
Dec 19, 2002
15,189
0
i like everyone here would love to see us back to where we belong.i guess our passion for the club to succeed comes from the days of hafey,GR, etc.they brought us out of the wilderness to become a powerful club in the late 60,s right thru to the early 80,s.
its far easier to roll off the mountain than climb it.
for far to long we just let everything take its coarse without looking at the big picture.while the near death of our club did put us way behind the 8 ball it took us 8yrs to finally work out that we need a strong football department for us to climb that mountain again.
sure there have been hiccups along the way but with the appointment of miller i beleive we are heading in the right direction.
i see a bit of GR in him and that has to be a good thing for the club.
if we have a repeat of 2002 this year i feel confident that tough decisions will be made and the right decisions not the lets sack the coach crap that has got us absolutley nowhere in the past 20yrs.
we want players who will bleed for the club not bleed the club.
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Yes, 20 years is a long time Rosy, to put up with what we have year after year. But I believe this is a relatively new time in the Club's history. Let the changes that have taken place over the pre season have time to have an impact. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not going to tell anyone how they should interpret what I've said. People can make up their own minds and it makes no difference what I think. People will think what they want to anyway.

And I agree Froars that we have a right to voice our opinion.

I love all the open and healthy discussion too Rosy. And, I don't believe I said anywhere, don't have an opinion. What I did say was:

By all means, have an opinion and criticise if you need to.  But recognise both the good and bad that we bring upon our own Club ...
 
A

admin

Guest
In other words, our solutions stop us solving our problems.  As an example, if you have a problem at work and the person responsible does not solve it, what do you do?  Get rid of that person?  OK, what then?  That person is no longer there, but the problem still exists.  What if the next person doesn't fix the problem either?  What then?  Do you keep hiring and firing or do you sit down and work out what the 'real' problem is and how to solve it?  Hiring and firing doesn't solve anything.  It appeases the masses for a short time, but unless people stop long enough to see the problem then a solution cannot be found.

There can also be the situation where the person is just wrong for the job and will never get anywhere.  
How long do you persevere then?
In the hypothetical situation Richmond had a coach who didn't have the team going in the right direction after a couple of years, and a top proven coach offered his services would they change over?
If high profile players aren't interested in giving 100% should their contracts be honoured?
A lot has to come down to hiring the proper person in the first place, which can be a lottery, but it's not always in the best interests to flog a dead horse either.
Like j2r I'm a lot more confident now Greg Miller is on board.
Here's hoping for a new era of sustained success at Tigerland and sackings become a thing of the past.
Bring on the premiership.  ;D
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
There can also be the situation where the person is just wrong for the job and will never get anywhere.  
How long do you persevere then?

The thing I'm saying Rosy is that we never get to that point to find out. And if they were so wrong for the job, why were they hired in the first place?

In the hypothetical situation Richmond had a coach who didn't have the team going in the right direction after a couple of years, and a top proven coach offered his services would they change over?

They would, unless they were stupid enough not to. I hardly think we qualify for this situation, given our record with coaches.

If high profile players aren't interested in giving 100% should their contracts be honoured?

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

A lot has to come down to hiring the proper person in the first place, which can be a lottery, but it's not always in the best interests to flog a dead horse either.

True Rosy, but is it then a case of the people doing the hiring that are the problem?

Like j2r I'm a lot more confident now Greg Miller is on board.

So am I Rosy.
 
A

admin

Guest
Haha, I feel like I've just got up off an analysts couch. :rollin
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Sorry to disappoint you TD, but, in answer to your question - No.
 

hutstar

Tiger Superstar
Dec 17, 2002
2,433
981
Florida
I see the whole thing a bit differently to you MC24. I think people still see ebbs and flows in footy because that was the way it worked for so long, but the reality as i see it is that footy is no longer about era's. For a club to compete regularly, each year of drafting must be good. Teams are built, peak, and die in about 5-6 years now. A few key players earmark a decade, but the turnover rate is extreme in the modern game. My point is this- we are not 'building' up to success. It must come in a reasonably quick time, or you are in trouble. To site some examples: Collingwood. Crap 2 years ago, 10-12 kids who can play via eddie, Gfinalists last year. Brissy. Last 4 years ago. 2 priemierships now, but the signs of the quick flow are there. Headland gone. Same core as 3 years ago. I give them 2 more decent years tops.
Essendon. 2 years ago they were invincible with a pretty young list hitting prime that looked like doing a hawthorn and winning a bucketload of premierships. Total 1. Best players too old, getting palmed off at a rapid rate. Sheedy gets this which is why he has tried at various points to ditch most of the squad- Mecuri, Misiti are there only because of the cap and the wariness of other clubs at taking players with too much experience.
For it to happen for Richmond, guys such as the Hall (easy target i know) who are 5 years in and have not made it happen need to be flicked for rookies. These rookies must then be tought the right way immediately. This must be done by an absolute expert. If not- the talent is hard to bring out. Our young guys have heaps of talent- Fiora, Pettifer, Coughlan, Ottens- but our coaching staff are not good enough at maximising this. These guys will end up like Bowden- 'he's really talented but just doesn't get it done' players.
Footy is a professional sport, and must be treated that way. Players are works in progress only for a limited time. They must be able to compete at the elite level by 21 or they are effectively no show of making it. Richmond would do well to look at the AIS- Perform or go. No long contracts. If a player succeeds then they get a couple of years. If you get a real franchise player (Hird) then and ONLY then do you give them a rest of career situation. People on this and other forums bag Gas because of the money he makes. Are you kidding?!?! If RFC are stupid enough to pay it, why would a professional footballer with a 10 year lifespan not take it? It is the responsibility of the club to keep players on notice. If the player performs and needs an upgrade, it will be covered by the player who underperforms. We always struggle to up contracts- Funny how when we then find the money we sign the player for too long, until he becomes a burden that makes it hard to sign another player- inevitably to an excessive contract.
In conclusion- It is a cut throat sport. We are not 'building' a team. We have hired 39 professional footballers to play for our club, and if they can't cut it- hire someone else.
hutstar
 

Dean3

Older than I've ever been
Dec 17, 2002
2,954
0
Melbourne
Interesting post hutstar. I tend to agree, tho I think there are 'long term project' players (especially big men) who aren't necessarily franchise players but are worth sticking with for longer than the average player. Ray Hall would be one of those, for mine.

But midfielders and smalls, yeah, if they're not mutting the custard after a couple of years, cut em and try someone else.
 

hutstar

Tiger Superstar
Dec 17, 2002
2,433
981
Florida
Fair call Dean3- I don't agree with Rayzor, but yea, rookies take a couple of years to figure out. I still believe Fiora will be a top player- i guess my article really is responsive in that the way to success of 20 or more years ago is dead- due to 1) salary caps and the draft and 2) the role money and income plays in modern professional football.
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
I see the whole thing a bit differently to you MC24. I think people still see ebbs and flows in footy because that was the way it worked for so long, but the reality as i see it is that footy is no longer about era's. For a club to compete regularly, each year of drafting must be good. Teams are built, peak, and die in about 5-6 years now. A few key players earmark a decade, but the turnover rate is extreme in the modern game. My point is this- we are not 'building' up to success. It must come in a reasonably quick time, or you are in trouble.

I agree with much of what you say hutstar, about the ebbs and flows in footy, rather than eras. I think you may have missed the point of what I was trying to say. For us to ever get to the position where we can have success, we first need to solve some issues. We can never develop a top team until we do so.

These rookies must then be tought the right way immediately. This must be done by an absolute expert. If not- the talent is hard to bring out. Our young guys have heaps of talent- Fiora, Pettifer, Coughlan, Ottens- but our coaching staff are not good enough at maximising this.

I agree and I go back to the previous point I made that, we first need to solve some issues and some of them are around developing players. We can have the players with all the talent in the world, but unless we develop players then they can never realise anything like their full potential.

It is the responsibility of the club to keep players on notice.

Very much so hutstar. This is something we have not done very well over the years. It's pretty much been a case of the tail wagging the dog, IMHO.

In conclusion- It is a cut throat sport. We are not 'building' a team. We have hired 39 professional footballers to play for our club, and if they can't cut it- hire someone else.

As you say hutstar, it is no longer a case of building a team. It is moreso about managing and developing players. But we first have to know how to go about that. Otherwise, we are just making up the numbers, as we have been for a long time now.