Precendents with uncontracted players and long term injuries

[Rosy]

There has been discussion about this on several threads and it's hard to follow.

Does anyone know of a club's duties in regard to players with long term injuries who are coming out of contract? Is there a legal obligation to re-new their contract to support them through their rehabilitation? Would the costs come under the salary cap? Would insurance cover the personal and rehab costs? Is it necessary for a player to be on the list to go through their rehab at the club?

Can anyone think of any precedents in this regard?

 

[The_General]

Ben Cousin's rehab costs were picked up by the Eagles, and I think they asked (successfully) for an exemption to get them removed from the cap. Could be wrong on that last bit. He didn't have to be offered a contract, but obviously there were disciplinary reasons for it.

Was it Luke (Rhino?) O'Sullivan sued the AFL and Carlton for an injury he said was because of a poor playing surface. Don't think he was kept on after his injury. That's a while ago, and not sure if he won the case or if it settled out of court.

Seeing the state of some of the VFL grounds (including Coburgs) some of the surfaces are uneven, etc. I think the outer wing at Coburg drops about half an inch at one point. Petts might have an angle for some legal action depending on where he got injured.

 

[TOT70]

I don't think there is any compulsion to renew the player's contract but I think there is an obligation to pay for the player's rehab costs and salary during the rehab period. I'm pretty sure clubs have delisted long-term injured players before but sent them on their way with a financial settlement which falls under the salary cap. The alternative could well be exposure to legal action.

If I remember correctly, it was decided to keep Rory Hilton on the list for another year due to his knee injury. The option was to pay him a settlement or just give him another year. RFC's finances being what they are, they chose to keep him on the list.

 

[Rosy]

Was Rory still contracted or did he get 12 month extension? I can't remember back that far. :-[

Wouldn't there be some kind of insurance/workers comp to cover long term injury? If so I don't see why a player should get a settlement from the club, especially if it affects the salary cap.

 

[IanG]

Was Rory still contracted or did he get 12 month extension? I can't remember back that far. :-[

Wouldn't there be some kind of insurance/workers comp to cover long term injury? If so I don't see why a player should get a settlement from the club, especially if it affects the salary cap.

The settlement would still fall under the salary cap so if he was replaced with another player we would have been effectively paying for 1 extra player in the salary cap.

 

[Rosy]

I understand a settlement for a contracted player Ian but am more asking if there would be one for an uncontracted player. I don't understand why there would be.

 

[Leysy Days]

In Rory's case he was injured playing for RFC. He was also out of contract.

If he was delisted, it could be deemed that the injury was a 12 month or career ending injury. In this case the club would have had to pay Rory the same base contract the following season plus match payments as if he was playing seniors all year. i.e A lot of money.

So the club then decided to re-contract him at base rates & pay him per game that he actually plays, thus saving the club decent $$$.

On Pettifer, leysy's understanding is that if Petts gets delisted & doesn't get picked up. His injury would be deemed the "cause" & RFC would be liable for his base contract plus match payments as per who he was injured playing for. Thus as his injury was sustained at Coburg this will make "match payments" less than if he was injured playing for RFC, but he may have been on a good base which leysy believes gets rolled over in the case of delistment due to injury sustained in a game.

 

[Dyer'ere]

Joel Smith was poached while nursing an ACL. Hawthorn outbid StKilda who were trying to skimp a bit on the next contract as the kid was injured and pretty limited in his application. I think there was some argy bargy over contract length too.

Did we punt Aaron James or keep him after that ACL? We punted him didn't we?

And Courtney Johns has apparently got the chop.

 

[Leysy Days]

Think we kept James for another year because of the reasons outlined JD.

Leysy could be wrong though.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

And Courtney Johns has apparently got the chop.

This is the one I am watching with interest, especially as he is looking at his legal options in sueing the AFL.

 

[IanG]

And Courtney Johns has apparently got the chop.

He was told he was axed before he got injured.

 

[checkside]

Everyone has mentioned Johns. Scott Camporeale was delisted/told to retire after he did his knee against us this year. Michael West from the Bulldogs, Pat Garner from Brisbane and Joel Reynolds from Geelong all got delisted of the rookie list last year with ACL injuries.

I think the club just has to pay for the rehab.

 

[Leysy Days]

Everyone has mentioned Johns. Scott Camporeale was delisted/told to retire after he did his knee against us this year. Michael West from the Bulldogs, Pat Garner from Brisbane and Joel Reynolds from Geelong all got delisted of the rookie list last year with ACL injuries.

I think the club just has to pay for the rehab.

Campo was injured playing for Essendone one's. They had to pay him out all match payments this year if delisted which they did. The bombers decided if they were going to pay him they may as well get some use so offered him a coaching role to get some value out of it.

All depends on the circumstances checkers. i.e if injured playing & if so at what level, amount & type of contract etc

 

[ZeroGame]

I understand a settlement for a contracted player Ian but am more asking if there would be one for an uncontracted player. I don't understand why there would be.

AFL football is no different to any other workplace
If a tradey injures his knee on a worksite and his contract is up once the project is finished in a couple of weeks, you don't think he's entitled to be paid while he's recovering?

 

[Rosy]

AFL football is no different to any other workplace
If a tradey injures his knee on a worksite and his contract is up once the project is finished in a couple of weeks, you don't think he's entitled to be paid while he's recovering?

Why do you ask me that question about being entitled to be paid.  I haven't indicated in the slightest that I felt that way and I certainly haven't indicated players shouldn't be paid while recovering.  

I asked if insurance or work care would be involved.  If a worker on our farm did his back and couldn't work he'd still be paid but it wouldn't be us paying him. 

Who pays the tradey in your above scenario?  If he was going to be out of contract in a  couple of weeks how long does he get paid for while recovering?  Who decides that? 

I'm just trying to understand the legal obligations and how it works and I thank all those who've posted genuine replies.  It seems to me I'm not the only one who doesn't get the rules.

 

[TigerLuke]

In Rory's case he was injured playing for RFC. He was also out of contract.

If he was delisted, it could be deemed that the injury was a 12 month or career ending injury. In this case the club would have had to pay Rory the same base contract the following season plus match payments as if he was playing seniors all year. i.e A lot of money.
...
On Pettifer, leysy's understanding is that if Petts gets delisted & doesn't get picked up. His injury would be deemed the "cause" & RFC would be liable for his base contract plus match payments as per who he was injured playing for. Thus as his injury was sustained at Coburg this will make "match payments" less than if he was injured playing for RFC, but he may have been on a good base which leysy believes gets rolled over in the case of delistment due to injury sustained in a game.

Hmmm, the ALFPA actually have a website(who knew?) and a page about the Collective Bargaining Agreement http://aflpa.com.au/topic/workplace-relations-advocacy/collective-bargaining-agreement
There is a link to a summary of the CBA which has another link to a pdf of the latest CBA*(http://aflpa.com.au/sites/all/files/AFLPA_AFL_CBA_2007_2011_FINAL.pdf). In there is a section(p84) about career ending injuries**(for playing at any level) in the final year of a contract but nothing about players in the final year of a contract who suffer other injuries. I assume there's other stuff in the CBA about health insurance and medical expenses which pettifer would be entitled to receive in the future even if he doesn't get a contract next year. Actually there's more stuff in there on p116 about Player Injury Payments which is basically what Leysy said, but it doesn't say if it includes continuing payments after a contract finishes, but maybe it does include that.

Whether there are further afl rules, or club rules, or clauses written into pettifer's contract about injuries I don't know. I suppose we are all wondering what Richmond FCs legal obligations are if we delist pettifer and he doesn't get picked up next year. One reason for players signing long term contracts(for maybe less than they would get year to year) is that in the event they get injured they will still get paid for the final years of the contract.

*There's also other interesting stuff in there including total Salary Cap, size of lists and rookies etc

**Read this article about David Neitz retiring and the compensation he was entitled to from Melbourne FC but did not pursue. Basically because his was a career ending injury he was entitled next year to be paid an amount equal to half his final year salary.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23748611-5012432,00.html (The Australian)

 

[the claw]

sheesh im in the trades i work for myself if i dont take out cover on myself i get nothing.
what pisses me is you get blokes like pettifer who must be on 200k t0 350k a yr and they expect the club to cover them what a nonsense this is.if players are concerned about football ending injuries they should firstly gstudy and get something else behind them and secondly take out cover themselves on loss of income. fair enough the club pays for rehab.