R6 V Hawks Game Day Thread

[an_oxford_man]

However, I thought the only thing stopping it being a blow out to an extent, was Hawthorn's poor kicking.

Can't agree there, mate. The hawthorn players (buddy and m.williams in particular) were having shots on significant angles, due to an inability to acquire the football in male (contested) terrority. Inside the V. Girls and flankers acquire the ball outside the V... as you're less likely to get contact when leading and marking there. When a football side's defence is getting the upper hand, they dominate the V. Hence the poor conversion rate.

Note that Roughead kicked 5.3... he was taking marks in the V, and was then proceeding to convert. Two of the misses that I can recall came in general play... nevertheless, his conversion was very good. Buddy could take a leaf out of Roughead's book... as 100kg "superstars" who are 15kgs heavier than their direct opponent should be able to mark in good goalscoring positions.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

i think you are being harsh on the ferals.
most agree we dont have the cattle at least i think most agree.

imo we are a bottom 4 list in the recent past we have been an absolute rabble. at long last our team is playing with a bit of pride endevour and courage. we have a few kids stepping up to the plate we are at a stage in development where wins are not to important as long as our kids show improvement and the team plays with intensity and has a red hot go.

when we think we have a finals list with kids who have had enough development losing will become unacceptable. the plain old facts are we are still a fair way of.
last yr we would have lost this game by 100points instead we got a team who had a real go never gave up even though they were clearly an inferior side. imo we could easilyhave lost this game by 8 or 10 goals thats the gap between the sides but we hung in their and made a real nuicance of ourselves.

What he said. I remember thinking during this match that if Hawthorn had been playing Geelong they would have been slaughtered.

 

[pahoffm]

?? His kicking out from full-back was disastrous - how many straight to opposition - and his disposal, other than to a free man 15m from him was disastrous. He continually turned it over under pressure and his defensive efforts - the one where he attempted to mark when behind Rioli and didn't make contact to the ball or Rioli was pathetic - were poor.

You saw the ones that he missed.

I saw the near impossible ones that he hit.

There were others who didn't have the courage to kick under pressure.

 

[Bill James]

However, I thought the only thing stopping it being a blow out to an extent, was Hawthorn's poor kicking. Most games they would have nailed the early chances, and by the end of the game it was just ridiculous. Credit to the Tigers to keep on coming, and not lying down, but that was probably the most one side 10 point margin I have ever seen in a contest, in terms of who were attacking the most.

Have a look at the goal map on AFL website champion. Most of your misses were from the flanks at >40m. Thats either good defense or dumb offense. Either way not many teams kicks too many from that part of the universe.

 

[Bill James]

This worries me too but McGuane is not up to it. Got carved by Roughhead. Not in postions were he was beaten by the kick but just got outsmarted body on body time and time again. If we are to play this fast paced game he is a a shocking liability on the rebound. Very slow hand to foot. Picks the easy option, not creative with the ball and puts team mates under pressure with his disposal. I too think that Bowden has to lift his intensity and don't really know if he can but we have no other options. JON has the same issues as McGuane and Rance isn't ready and shouldn't be forced. Maybe Casserley goes to the Mark Williams types and Wilbur T takes the Roughead types.

Watch it again pooper scooper.

Roughead got two on McGaune, one when he outmarked him square and the the other was on a lead that Silvagni wouldn't have stopped. He got his third when McGaune was off the ground having his head bandaged and Shulz held his jumper when he was 2 metres away from the contest. He got his last two on Thursty, the first when Patto was wrongly pinged for pulling it back in when he pushed it out three times only to have the hawks push it back under him and the free kick went to Roughead. He go his fifth when Thrursty got caught in a maul and eventually Tuck kicked it two metres to a Hawk who kicked to Roughead who had skulked out the back like a flanker. Tuck would normally have taken it to ground in the tackle for a ball up but it was the last couple of minutes and we needed to move it on so fair cop.

On his disposal, I think he missed one all night. The stats have him second for effective % for the tiges behind Thursty.

 

[Willo]

Watch it again pooper scooper.

Roughead got two on McGaune, one when he outmarked him square and the the other was on a lead that Silvagni wouldn't have stopped. He got his third when McGaune was off the ground having his head bandaged and Shulz held his jumper when he was 2 metres away from the contest. He got his last two on Thursty, the first when Patto was wrongly pinged for pulling it back in when he pushed it out three times only to have the hawks push it back under him and the free kick went to Roughead. He go his fifth when Thrursty got caught in a maul and eventually Tuck kicked it two metres to a Hawk who kicked to Roughead who had skulked out the back like a flanker. Tuck would normally have taken it to ground in the tackle for a ball up but it was the last couple of minutes and we needed to move it on so fair cop.

On his disposal, I think he missed one all night. The stats have him second for effective % for the tiges behind Thursty.

Funny what different people see, Bill

 

[AstuteTiger]

Have a look at the goal map on AFL website champion. Most of your misses were from the flanks at >40m. Thats either good defense or dumb offense. Either way not many teams kicks too many from that part of the universe.

BJ u might have to knockurself out explaining this one, it was that obvious to everyone well actually not everyone it seems that richmond were forcing the hawks wide by patrolling the center corridor by doing this the hawks only avenue to goal was more so via the flanks now folks when u kick wide or wider near the boudary line ur chances of scoring 6 pts are some what diminished to a point, sure ul get some miraculous goals like junior boy but reality says ul miss more than u get. Full marks to richmond for forcing the hawks wide and not giving them easy shots on goal.

 

[Bill James]

Funny what different people see, Bill

I agree, our perception of a players game is often driven by one or two plays or stats. I saw that post and suspected that McGaune's game was actually better than Rougheads stats suggested. I could remember the two free kicks. I took note of Rougheads goals when I watched the match again last night.

 

[Motown]

Have a look at the goal map on AFL website champion. Most of your misses were from the flanks at >40m. Thats either good defense or dumb offense. Either way not many teams kicks too many from that part of the universe.

I agree with your basic premise that Richmond did well to force us wide for many shots, but even allowing for that, our conversion was still well short of normal.
vs ADE/BL/RICH

 

[Harry]

Our intensity has been great the past 3 weeks but we still need more class, ie better thinkers and better users of the ball. Without this, we are gonna have to play at 110% every week to win games as we will struggle when it drops. The beauty of class is that it can help carry you over the line in games where your intensity is not at its maximum.

Hopefully we maintain this level of intensity and it becomes the norm while we gradually introduce better users like Connors, Collins, Casserly, Cotchin, Hughes, Rance, Putt and hopefully Collard into the side. Also a fit and hungry Danny Meyer would be a massive bonus.

While we are winning and/or being competitive we need to give these kids a taste of the big league. There is no point throwing them in the deep end when we are struggling, which is what we usually do.

We need to keep improving and I hope the coaching panel don't think we are thereabouts.

 

[IrockZ]

You saw the ones that he missed.

I saw the near impossible ones that he hit.

There were others who didn't have the courage to kick under pressure.

the kickout from fullback when we had the lead was a joke, no richmond player within 10 of the hawk who marked it

only thing I miss about Bowden atm is he's kickouts which are miles better than McMuffin

 

[Scoop]

Our intensity has been great the past 3 weeks but we still need more class, ie better thinkers and better users of the ball. Without this, we are gonna have to play at 110% every week to win games as we will struggle when it drops. The beauty of class is that it can help carry you over the line in games where your intensity is not at its maximum.

Hopefully we maintain this level of intensity and it becomes the norm while we gradually introduce better users like Connors, Collins, Casserly, Cotchin, Hughes, Rance, Putt and hopefully Collard into the side. Also a fit and hungry Danny Meyer would be a massive bonus.

While we are winning and/or being competitive we need to give these kids a taste of the big league. There is no point throwing them in the deep end when we are struggling, which is what we usually do.

We need to keep improving and I hope the coaching panel don't think we are thereabouts.

Agree. Good post . Well said. I think Cotchin is only a month away at the most barring any setbacks from playing, Connors is being held back by fitness so I am not sure how long he will be and Casserley should be very close. Collins is also on the cusp. Good signs. Dean Polo may be a long way back in the pecking order ATM and could be trade bait come years end. Rance should debut in the 1's for Coburg this week and Putt has showed some really promising moments. If we can nail the next two drafts and keep all our picks we are in good shape. The expansion teams will place so much pressure on the next two drafts.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Roughead got two on McGaune, one when he outmarked him square and the the other was on a lead that Silvagni wouldn't have stopped. He got his third when McGaune was off the ground having his head bandaged and Shulz held his jumper when he was 2 metres away from the contest. He got his last two on Thursty, the first when Patto was wrongly pinged for pulling it back in when he pushed it out three times only to have the hawks push it back under him and the free kick went to Roughead. He go his fifth when Thrursty got caught in a maul and eventually Tuck kicked it two metres to a Hawk who kicked to Roughead who had skulked out the back like a flanker. Tuck would normally have taken it to ground in the tackle for a ball up but it was the last couple of minutes and we needed to move it on so fair cop.

On his disposal, I think he missed one all night. The stats have him second for effective % for the tiges behind Thursty.

Great post Billy. Actual facts supporting an argument. Well done.

Luke had his best game for the year and working his way back after a disrupted start.

17 possessions(93% effectiveness) & 5 tackles would suggest he was a handy contributor in defence, not a liability at all.
His intensity and work ethic are very good and despite what some think, as we have seen with Schulz and Moore he is worth perserving with to exhaust whether he'll make it or not.

Also after watching him closely the past fortnight, IMO there is no way known his disposal is as bad as some suggest.
McGuane's history of clangers has more to do with lack of confidence and experience, than it does with poor technique.
He's not brilliant but he's certainly not Darren Gaspar. In fact i'd say he's getting better with every game.

If/when someone better steps up then fine replace him but he's going ok & deserves his spot in the 22 right now.
Someone at the club rates him.

 

[lamb22]

Agree. Good post . Well said. I think Cotchin is only a month away at the most barring any setbacks from playing, Connors is being held back by fitness so I am not sure how long he will be and Casserley should be very close. Collins is also on the cusp. Good signs. Dean Polo may be a long way back in the pecking order ATM and could be trade bait come years end. Rance should debut in the 1's for Coburg this week and Putt has showed some really promising moments. If we can nail the next two drafts and keep all our picks we are in good shape. The expansion teams will place so much pressure on the next two drafts.

What again!

Seriously though we need Cotchin in there as soon as possible. Probably needs at least another game at Coburg - but on what I saw last week could slot straight in now although probably would be limited to half a game fitnes wise. If Whitey is OK I'd say no change. If he is out I'd prefer Cotchin to come in instead of Bowden. Its a matter of doing what's right by the kid, though. But a half a game against the saints, with a fortnight then on the track before the Geelong game might be feasible.

I'd say they propbably have Cotch pencilled in for dream time in a month. Interesting to see if Cogs plays this week as Terry suggested.

Polo is realy struggling at Coburg - you'd think it was injury related because he has been down on strengths such as ball handling and gut running but he might just have spit the dummy. I dont know why is is getting tagging jobs at VFL level. When he started out at VFL played half back who could get a goal (got three playing against Buddy) or a midfielder who got his fair share of the ball. I think he should be allowed to play as a straight up mid at Coburg and develop some leather posioning so as to push for a recall. You'd think Polo would be the natural replacement for Johno and Tuck down the track.

Connors is way off fitness wise. But really we will need Cotchin and Cogs in the ones and and hopefully Polo Connors and Collins hit their straps to provide the midfield quality and depth to match the big boys.

I think we stack up better than most with our defence and forwards so if we get the mids firing we'll do OK!

 

[lamb22]

Great post Billy. Actual facts supporting an argument. Well done.

Luke had his best game for the year and working his way back after a disrupted start.

17 possessions(93% effectiveness) & 5 tackles would suggest he was a handy contributor in defence, not a liability at all.
His intensity and work ethic are very good and despite what some think, as we have seen with Schulz and Moore he is worth perserving with to exhaust whether he'll make it or not.

Also after watching him closely the past fortnight, IMO there is no way known his disposal is as bad as some suggest.
McGuane's history of clangers has more to do with lack of confidence and experience, than it does with poor technique.
He's not brilliant but he's certainly not Darren Gaspar. In fact i'd say he's getting better with every game.

If/when someone better steps up then fine replace him but he's going ok & deserves his spot in the 22 right now.
Someone at the club rates him.

I've watchd him closely too Oldie and he is clearly playing within his limitations which is good. He is delivering quickly and usually with a low quick 30 metre stab to a player in space. He is good competitor but still needs more strength but worth a spot ATM. Rance might be eyeing it off though!

 

[Scoop]

Watch it again pooper scooper.

.

All right I will.

 

[Dyer'ere]

All right I will.

And while you're at it drink some beer. And then eat a pizza. A be quick about it.

 

[Scoop]

And while you're at it drink some beer. And then eat a pizza. A be quick about it.

Sorry Jack did you saw something? Just having morning tea. A Becks and a Aussie pizza.

Nuthin special just the usual elevenses'.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

And while you're at it drink some beer. And then eat a pizza. A be quick about it.

You are a hard man Jack, hard but fair

 

[Tigers of Old]

Rance might be eyeing it off though!

I'm fine with that. If Alex is ready and putting pressure on Luke's defensive spot in the Richmond side then great but is he really there yet?
Unlikely despite the wraps and a BOG for the Burgers reserves, it would seem early for a tall defender but those at the club are best placed to know.
If indeed he is showing more than Lace Out, then by all means put them in there but I like the way Terry is dealing with it atm.
He's promoting those at the lower levels whose consistancy of effort and defensive pressure are standing out.
The results of that are showing tenfold in our determination and intensity across the entire team. Sure skill levels are important and shouldn't be neglected but there's a reason Pettifer ain't playing and it isn't because he lacks skill. There has to be a balance.
My defence of McGuane is not so much because he's a great player or even the best long term option but he his efforts over the past few weeks are forcing others to lift their game to win his spot. That can only be a good thing. 8)