race for the wooden spoon

[justice]

In was talking to a mate of mine from Canada, a MLB, NHL, NBA walking encyclopedia, and he said that the "lottery draft system" was introduced in American sports specifically to curtail the tanking that went on to secure higher draftpicks. Human nature I guess. The sooner they introduce it in the AFL the better I reckon.

clubs still tank to get more balls in the lottery so its not all great

yeh it aint a good thing but we are in a position to play the system and we should do it

winning culture is a myth, we won some games late in the yr last season and what good did that do early this yr

you need the talent first and foremost

 

[benny_furs]

winning culture is a myth, we won some games late in the yr last season and what good did that do early this yr

you need the talent first and foremost

Have to agree with that.

You need the talent first. IMO "Winning culture" is mostly about the attitude and leadership of the players at your club rather than how many games they have won recently.Maybe winning lots of games doesn't build the culture, it's the natural attitude of the players that causes the winning to start?

Eg, Glenn Archer promotes a winning culture for the youngsters in his team while Richo doesn't promote it in ours (but we still love him )

And so winning games isn't necessarily what builds a winning culture, getting players who naturally have that never-say-die attitude is what builds it. Top draft picks don't always have this attitude (Deledio worries me a little here..) which is why I believe you need rookie drafted players like Foley to inspire guts and determination.

Players like Dal Santo, Goddard, Kosi and Riewoldt have had it easy. They don't have the same hard at it never give up attitude that Foley inspires. We need more Foleys for the winning culture to build, but while we're at it we might as well fill up on out other need while we are in a situation to get it - pure talent.

 

[Tygrys]

In was talking to a mate of mine from Canada, a MLB, NHL, NBA walking encyclopedia, and he said that the "lottery draft system" was introduced in American sports specifically to curtail the tanking that went on to secure higher draftpicks. Human nature I guess. The sooner they introduce it in the AFL the better I reckon.

clubs still tank to get more balls in the lottery so its not all great

yeh it aint a good thing but we are in a position to play the system and we should do it

winning culture is a myth, we won some games late in the yr last season and what good did that do early this yr

you need the talent first and foremost

Yeah it was one of the more stupid arguments made as we picked up some cheap victories against the cellar dwellers late last year ie 'forget the draft, if we win a few matches at the end of 2006 it will give us momentum into 2007'. Not sure if they really believed it though, I just think some are so pathologically desperate for bragging rights for a week they'll say anything to rationalise that desire. Anyhow, after 2 1/2 years of Wallet going on about winning culture it's interesting to see where it has gotten us. Winning culture is BS without the players to make it happen.

 

[Rosy]

Eg, Glenn Archer promotes a winning culture for the youngsters in his team while Richo doesn't promote it in ours (but we still love him )

Glenn Archer wouldn't condone tanking or wooden spoons.  Refusal to accept mediocrity is a prerequisite for success.

 

[benny_furs]

Eg, Glenn Archer promotes a winning culture for the youngsters in his team while Richo doesn't promote it in ours (but we still love him )

Glenn Arcer wouldn't condone tanking or wooden spoons. Refusal to accept mediocrity is a prerequisite for success.

Exactly.

And Glenn Archer didn't pick up that attitude from his senior players. He had it when he arrived, that's who he is 8) To mimic their culture do we try and change our Deledios and Meyers till they develop Glenn Archer's attitude or do we draft kids who already have it?

Winning a couple of games wouldn't give them a Glenn Archer attitude you'd think. We need a Luke Hodge type imo, Deledio is way too soft to lead us in the future.

Actually who do we think has that 'refusal to lose' mentality? Off the top of my head I'd say Cam Howat (see his article this week?), Jake King, Foley of course, Polo, Patto and Tambling. We've got a good core coming through and in time when Riewoldt and Edwards mature as well we'll have good character in the group.

 

[justice]

Glenn Archer wouldn't condone tanking or wooden spoons. Refusal to accept mediocrity is a prerequisite for success.

you can refuse it all you want but if your crap than you have no choice

all im saying is id rather draft 3-4 young leaders with talent than get a few more wins this yr with the same old and miss out on these guys

2005 - pies - who even remembers that they finished 15th? they put tarrant and the like in for surgery and ended up with thomas and pendlebury, came 5th last year

2006 - dons - finished 15th and got the priority pick after they displayed the most disgraceful bit of tanking in their game against the dogs last year, they had the game won but sheedy did some tricks and they lost it, who remembers it? if they won that game they wouldnt of got jetta

2007- tigers - are we going to finally stand up and be smart footy operators and join the rest of the afl or are we going to go searching for cheap wins to make the season seem respectable but in doing so setback our future even longer?

time will tell!

 

[benny_furs]

The current drafting rules almost are a matter of "if you want to win games of football in the future... then you have to lose", so we ask ourselves, do we want to win games of football?

The answer is yes we want to win now AND yes we want to win later... I'm starting to lose hope and all I care about is if we win later.

I can endure another 15 months of tanking if it gives us a decade of dominance.

 

[justice]

The current drafting rules almost are a matter of "if you want to win games of football in the future... then you have to lose", so we ask ourselves, do we want to win games of football?

The answer is yes we want to win now AND yes we want to win later... I'm starting to lose hope and all I care about is if we win later.

I can endure another 15 months of tanking if it gives us a decade of dominance.

its only tanking when your good enough to win but dont, atm we dont have that luxury

 

[benny_furs]

its only tanking when your good enough to win but dont, atm we dont have that luxury

We are good enough to finish middle of the road imo. By ranking players like moore and McGuane ahead of Gaspar we are tanking - not int he form of not trying to win but by selecting a team with the focus on "preparing them for the future and getting experience" instead of it squarely being on "win this week at all costs".

Picking too many kids is a form of tanking, even if it could be argued that we don't have anybody and they are playing on merit. If we seriously wanted to win and 2 players were equal in output, then you would pick the more experienced, senior player, wouldn't you?

I have no doubt Terry did not plan to take this method in 2007 (or at all) but due to 4-5 losses on the trot he decided to bite the bullet. If we had've won 2 of the first 5 games Gaspar would still be playing and Kingsley would be an automatic inclusion this week imo.

 

[mtench]

we wont get the number one pick even if we do get the spoon. carlton will get a priority pick because they aint gunna win three more games for the year!!

 

[TigerMasochist]

The Carlton thing really gets under my skin. Regardless of how Melbourne and us do (it is tight for the spoon at the moment) and both clubs are suffering from injuries and poor form, I can't stand thinking that Carlton could conceivably finish the season above both clubs and still get the first pick in the draft (a true priority pick) due to their results of last year. That would mean they will have received the "best" player for three years in a row.

Don't give a stuff if Cartoon gets a priority before the first round this year.
The whole concept of a priority pick was to boost up a club that was constantly struggling to win games and dragging their raggedy arses down the bottom for years.
The AFL have finally got this one right unlike in recent years when a club like Melb or Scumwood could play finals one year and then have a couple of injuries the next year, dive to the bottom of the ladder and pick up a priority plus early first rounder and bounce straight back up to finals the next year.

 

[mtench]

its about time we had some good quality picks ,and not finish ninth and get the also rans of the draft. we need some superstars on our list thats the only way we are going to climb up the ladder!

 

[justice]

its about time we had some good quality picks ,and not finish ninth and get the also rans of the draft. we need some superstars on our list thats the only way we are going to climb up the ladder!

about time someone got it right

well done!