-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
RAINSYBABY'S PLAYER REVIEW & RATINGS 2008
BOWDEN, Joel - 77 - after looking gone earlier in the year...Joel came back in Round 8 and was as dominant as anyone in the team. He is in great condition to go on a couple of years...providing he continues to play up the ground unless it's close in the last 5 minutes of the game where Terry can swing him back. Played 18 games and averaged 22 possessions and kicked 17 goals.
BROWN, Nathan - 80 - like Joel he has 2 good seasons left in him for the Tiges. It was just great to see him move freely. You can't beat class...and only Deledio beats him at that level in the team. Kicked 35 goals...averaged 20 possessions. Played 18 games
CARTLEDGE, Tristan - 12 - played the 2 games only in Rounds 20 & 21...can't question his endeavour...not quite sure where he's at...displayed some talent against Freo...debuted in 2005 and has played only 9 games. It's funny but I prefer Patto to Tristan but I prefer Tristan to Schulz...so the answer is a pineapple.
CONNORS, Daniel - 25 - played the 4 games...we all know he is a talent...just turned 20...needs to put in a huge pre season, get fit... and play all 22 games next year...he is good enough. He won't shirk a contest...has the physical toughness...does he have the mental toughness to go with it ?
COTCHIN, Trent - 80 - debuted in Round 8 and played every game. One word describes this lad - WOW
The kid moves like a Harvey/Judd put together...hard to keep a lid on him...everything he does displays talent, class and poise...an AFL champion of the future. I can't recall a player make so much impact without a pre season under his belt. To think we would have lost him if we had won that tight Saints game in Round 22, 2007.
DELEDIO, Brett - 90 - played all 22 games...averaged 25 possessions...kicked 28 goals...he toughened up in 2008 and became an elite AFL footballer for the first time. Not bad for a 21 year old I say...he now has 84 games to his name. Is their a better player in full flight...he is super quick. Well Done Brett...I was one of your knockers in early 2007...I questioned your courage...and you have become as courageous a player I've seen in many years...a fair effort.
EDWARDS, Shane - 65 - played 16 games, 12 goals, averaged 12 possessions. Shane showed a bit in spurts...needs to build his strength...he also needs to kick more goals and be at the feet of the talls up forward.
Hopefully 2009 sees him averaging 20 possessions a game and if he can target 25 goals it will be a plus for all. The kid can play. He hasn't turned 20 yet.
FOLEY, Nathan - 82 - played 21 games...kicked only 8 goals and averaged 22 touches. He isn't as classy as Deledio & Cotchin...but he continues to burrow in and get the hard nut. Great to see him play for the Vics. I get the feeling he played the 2nd half of the season under duress. He is still a kid at 23 and God help the opposition when the awesome 4some of Deledio, Cotchin, Foley and Tuck are on song in a game. All Nathan needs to do this pre season is practice hitting forwards on the chest...something he needs to improve on to take the next step.
HOWAT, Cameron - 5 - Cam got tragically injured in the season opener against the Blues and was out for the year.
HUGHES, Cleve - 25 - Disappointing 6 games only for Cleve...got injured and struggled to cement a spot in the team...kicked 6 goals and looked the goods in Adelaide...but 16 games in 3 seasons...I suggest we keep him...even if Richo was to play another 2 seasons...Cleve would be only 23 years old...well worth persevering with.
HYDE, Chris - 25 - The coach showed faith in Chris...but he didn't play after Round 14. He's been at the club for 6 years now and has struggled to average 20 possessions in one year. He is 26 now and I'd be trading him.
JACKSON, Daniel - 60 - Played just 11 games but I like how he finished off the season. He is only 22 years old and it's essential he stays in the team. My one pet hate of Daniel is he doesn't back himself with his first option and often gets caught. I like his tagging/midfield role...but Terry should play him one out up forward in the goal square when we become a bit too predictable.
JOHNSON, Kane - 80 - Played 18 games, averaged 24 possessions...had a real good consistent year after his "weeing incident".
He loves the club and he will know when to retire...I'm sure our young midfielders have benefited from his experience. I'm thinking Jackson and Johnson will hold "stopper roles" again next year.
KING, Jake - 62 - Jake played the 14 games and averaged 20 possessions. You can't deny the guys determination but I seriously believe he isn't up to being a regular in the team. He lacks class and his decision making was below par this year. I'd be putting Jake on the market.
MCGUANE, Luke - 75 - I love this bloke...copped his fair share of criticism on this forum...where it was clear to those with football nous that all he needed was time...has improved with every game this year...rarely beaten...a tough nut with dash and mongrel...a player that should remain in our back 6 for the next 6 years. Well done Luke.
MCMAHON, Jordan - 78 - Played all 22 games and averaged 23 possessions in his first season with the Tiges...his run and long kicks were definitely a plus for us this year. Sure he was loose as Paris Hilton at times but he finds the ball...I just want him to go out next year and have a better season again...that will be enough to say Terry got it right to bring him to Punt Rd.
MOORE, Kelvin - 85 - Played all 22 games averaging 16 possessions. You little beauty Kelvin...a great year...most improved player on the list...was rarely beaten...and the kid will establish himself with Luke and Will as the backbone of our defence in years to come.
MORTON, Mitch - 78 - Played 17 games and kicked 35 goals in his first year with the Tiges. You can't ask more than that from a kid. Aim for 50 next year Mitch...have a big preseason...and just work on your spring...I thought on a few occasions that you were outmarked when you clearly were in the best position. But well done.
NEWMAN, Chris - 83 - Played all 22 games averaging 20 possessions. I thought his second half of the year was exceptional...wasn't accountable for his opponent in the early rounds. One of the first picked each week...his common sense, poise and reliability has been a shining light for a team that has struggled in recent years. At 26 and 130 odd games under his belt, I do believe he is "Number 17" material. Should consider a NFL career in 5 years time...he can kick a footy that's for sure.
OAKLEY-NICHOLLS, Jarrad - 10 - Played the 2 games for a total of 5 games in 3 years. I can't get enthused about his future at Tigerland. I've seen players that have become late bloomers...I don't think he is good enough. Sorry Jarrad but you've got to go.
PATTISON, Adam - 65 - Patto played the 18 games and only averaged the 7 disposals and 7 hitouts a game. I like Patto but do concede he struggled this year. Well worth persevering with as he is lion hearted and will get more opportunities when Richo and Simmonds retire in 2 years time. The experience he has gained in his 53 games will put him in good stead for the future. Have a big pre season Patto and work on your agililty.
PETTIFER, Kayne - 20 - Played the 6 games for a total of 109 games for the Tiges and 129 goals. A very much maligned player at the club and I feel he has played his last senior game for the Tiges. Sad to see him get that nasty injury. But with youngsters like Rievoldt, Morton, Patto and Hughes on the list, Kayne becomes trade bait at 26 years of age.
POLAK, Graham - 45 - Played the 11 games and averaged 8 possessions before the awful tram incident that sidelined him. Great to see hear reports he is recovering well. I thought Graham was struggling before the accident. I really do think he is at the crossroads if he does resume next year. He will be 25 and has over 100 games experience. It's time he starts impacting games. A guy his size is invaluable but he hasn't made his presence felt. Has great hands and hopefully he will be given another crack.
POLO, Dean - 30 - Only the 6 games and averaged 17 possessions. I'm inclined to think Johnson and Jackson are keeping Polo out of the side...similar roles but we can't play all 3. Deano will get his chance once the skipper retires. I'd like him to play the small back pocket role next year.
RAINES, Andrew - 10 - The 2 games only for my namesake before he got injured. I was so looking forward to Rainsy establishing himself in the team. I thought he was sensational in 2006 and disappointing in 2007. At 22, he deserves another crack at it.
RICHARDSON, Matthew - 92 - There will never be another Richo. The champ played 20 games, kicked 48 goals, most of them drifting down from the wing. He averaged 18 possessions and 11 marks. All up he has played 276 games and kicked 791 goals. He will be 34 next year. We all know his attributes...we all know his deficiences...best thing to do with Richo is for him to tell us when to hang up the boots. 2008 was pretty close to his best year...Richo you are RICHMOND THROUGH AND THROUGH and deserve to play finals footy in 2009 & 2010...wouldn't it be a fairytale Richo plays his last game in the 2010 Grand Final.
RIEVOLDT, Jack - 70 - Jack played the 18 games for 18 goals. Great hands, top kick for goal...talented...stating the bleeding obvious there. Jack needs to bulk up preseason...was pushed aside too easily in contests which led to him staging for free kicks...leave that to Lloydy Jack. Watch that ball that "yorks" you...not getting down quickly enough...head down at all costs. Jack you're a future star...2009 is your year. Aim for 40 goals...aim for 8-10 marks a game. You can do it.
SCHULZ, Jay - 70 - 18 games, 10 goals...averaged 15 possessions and 6 marks...Best season at he club but was overdue...a poor season would have seen him out...67 games in 6 years and will be 24 next year. How many of those games has Jay been in the best 10 players on the ground ? Hardly any I reckon. I think it's a coin flip whether he stays or not. We can't keep both Polak and Schulz surely...one has to go.
SIMMONDS, Troy - 80 - played all 22 games...represented the Vics...kicked 13 goals...averaged 17 possessions, 6 marks and 16 hitouts. Troy battled courageously without too much support this year. I thought he was exceptional even though he gave away his share of free kicks. He turns 31 next year but is a picture of health. He deserves another quality ruckman to assist him next year. Wouldn't it be sensational to get a Robert Warnock help him out ? Well Done Troy.
TAMBLING, Richard - 78 - played all 22 games averaging 17 possessions...Richie is slowly coming good...I thought his 2nd half of the year was good...loved his run from the back half...anyone notice his tackling has improved out of sight in recent games. He is 22 now and 75 games under his belt...Deledio has played 84 games...I have no doubt whatsoever 2009 will see the rise of Richie...he is on the verge of something very special...Deledio did it this year...Tambling to blitz next year.
THURSFIELD, Will - 80 - played 18 games...missed the 4 games to a hammy injury. I can't believe some of the ferals here knocking Will...they have no vision whatsoever. Will is a star in the making...a future All Australian...he will be 23 next year...has played the 40 games and has been rarely beaten. His closing speed, reach and spring are sensational. I can't wait to see him continue to improve...he needs to hit the gym with Luke and Kelvin again this preseason...they all gave away many free kicks due to their light frame but the trio are so exciting...they are going to ignite our defence in years to come.
TIVENDALE, Greg - 15 - played only the 3 games and was good to see him go out in style playing his last game yesterday. Very much maligned because of his right foot deficiency and constant clangers. But the guy was to play 188 games for the jumper and kicked 125 goals. He made the most of his abilty and I say well done Tivva...I'm sure if he had the current Geelong team around him during his career...he would have gone down as a great player. Over the years he found it hard to soar like an eagle when surrounded by so many turkeys.
TUCK, Shane - 84 - played all 22 games and averaged 25 possessions. It was Tucky's best year to date. I get the feeling like his old man that he will get better as he gets older. He is 27 and played 91 games. I loved the way he attacked the footy this year...I also loved the emotions he displayed...you can just see him busting his guts for success. That wasn't noticeable in previous years. Well done Tucky...I don't believe we've seen the best of you yet which spells great news for the club.
WHITE, Matthew - 73 - played the last 20 games this year and averaged 13 possessions and kicked 11 goals. Love his dash...what Matty needs to do is aim for 20 possessions a game and learn not to give away the easy free kick...he needs to look no further than his captain for guidance. His future is bright at the club.
So going on my ratings I have Richo winning the inaugural RAINSYBABY PLAYER OF THE YEAR. The top 5 were :
RAINSYBABY PLAYER OF THE YEAR
1st - Richo 92
2nd - Deledio 90
3rd - Moore 85
4th - Tuck 84
5th - Newman 83
For the record I gave Terry Wallace a 70 rating this year. I did expect them to play finals this year. Not many of us did. To think we were 6 points from 4th place peeves me off. Anything less than 14 wins in 2009 will be seen as a failure from my end. I have great faith these lads will improve again...if we can pick up a quality Ruckman to help Troy...and either Kerr or Cousins to add class to the midfield that would be sensational. I have great confidence that our defence is fine.
I'd be interested to hear forumites feedback on my review...it's obvious their will be many different opinions...but I think I'm pretty close to the mark.
Bring on the Spring Carnival after the Geelong-Hawthorn blockbuster Grand Final.
Have a great break...and see you all nice and early in 2009 unless something major at the club surfaces beforehand.
RainsyBaby
BOWDEN, Joel - 77 - after looking gone earlier in the year...Joel came back in Round 8 and was as dominant as anyone in the team. He is in great condition to go on a couple of years...providing he continues to play up the ground unless it's close in the last 5 minutes of the game where Terry can swing him back. Played 18 games and averaged 22 possessions and kicked 17 goals.
BROWN, Nathan - 80 - like Joel he has 2 good seasons left in him for the Tiges. It was just great to see him move freely. You can't beat class...and only Deledio beats him at that level in the team. Kicked 35 goals...averaged 20 possessions. Played 18 games
CARTLEDGE, Tristan - 12 - played the 2 games only in Rounds 20 & 21...can't question his endeavour...not quite sure where he's at...displayed some talent against Freo...debuted in 2005 and has played only 9 games. It's funny but I prefer Patto to Tristan but I prefer Tristan to Schulz...so the answer is a pineapple.
CONNORS, Daniel - 25 - played the 4 games...we all know he is a talent...just turned 20...needs to put in a huge pre season, get fit... and play all 22 games next year...he is good enough. He won't shirk a contest...has the physical toughness...does he have the mental toughness to go with it ?
COTCHIN, Trent - 80 - debuted in Round 8 and played every game. One word describes this lad - WOW
The kid moves like a Harvey/Judd put together...hard to keep a lid on him...everything he does displays talent, class and poise...an AFL champion of the future. I can't recall a player make so much impact without a pre season under his belt. To think we would have lost him if we had won that tight Saints game in Round 22, 2007.
DELEDIO, Brett - 90 - played all 22 games...averaged 25 possessions...kicked 28 goals...he toughened up in 2008 and became an elite AFL footballer for the first time. Not bad for a 21 year old I say...he now has 84 games to his name. Is their a better player in full flight...he is super quick. Well Done Brett...I was one of your knockers in early 2007...I questioned your courage...and you have become as courageous a player I've seen in many years...a fair effort.
EDWARDS, Shane - 65 - played 16 games, 12 goals, averaged 12 possessions. Shane showed a bit in spurts...needs to build his strength...he also needs to kick more goals and be at the feet of the talls up forward.
Hopefully 2009 sees him averaging 20 possessions a game and if he can target 25 goals it will be a plus for all. The kid can play. He hasn't turned 20 yet.
FOLEY, Nathan - 82 - played 21 games...kicked only 8 goals and averaged 22 touches. He isn't as classy as Deledio & Cotchin...but he continues to burrow in and get the hard nut. Great to see him play for the Vics. I get the feeling he played the 2nd half of the season under duress. He is still a kid at 23 and God help the opposition when the awesome 4some of Deledio, Cotchin, Foley and Tuck are on song in a game. All Nathan needs to do this pre season is practice hitting forwards on the chest...something he needs to improve on to take the next step.
HOWAT, Cameron - 5 - Cam got tragically injured in the season opener against the Blues and was out for the year.
HUGHES, Cleve - 25 - Disappointing 6 games only for Cleve...got injured and struggled to cement a spot in the team...kicked 6 goals and looked the goods in Adelaide...but 16 games in 3 seasons...I suggest we keep him...even if Richo was to play another 2 seasons...Cleve would be only 23 years old...well worth persevering with.
HYDE, Chris - 25 - The coach showed faith in Chris...but he didn't play after Round 14. He's been at the club for 6 years now and has struggled to average 20 possessions in one year. He is 26 now and I'd be trading him.
JACKSON, Daniel - 60 - Played just 11 games but I like how he finished off the season. He is only 22 years old and it's essential he stays in the team. My one pet hate of Daniel is he doesn't back himself with his first option and often gets caught. I like his tagging/midfield role...but Terry should play him one out up forward in the goal square when we become a bit too predictable.
JOHNSON, Kane - 80 - Played 18 games, averaged 24 possessions...had a real good consistent year after his "weeing incident".
He loves the club and he will know when to retire...I'm sure our young midfielders have benefited from his experience. I'm thinking Jackson and Johnson will hold "stopper roles" again next year.
KING, Jake - 62 - Jake played the 14 games and averaged 20 possessions. You can't deny the guys determination but I seriously believe he isn't up to being a regular in the team. He lacks class and his decision making was below par this year. I'd be putting Jake on the market.
MCGUANE, Luke - 75 - I love this bloke...copped his fair share of criticism on this forum...where it was clear to those with football nous that all he needed was time...has improved with every game this year...rarely beaten...a tough nut with dash and mongrel...a player that should remain in our back 6 for the next 6 years. Well done Luke.
MCMAHON, Jordan - 78 - Played all 22 games and averaged 23 possessions in his first season with the Tiges...his run and long kicks were definitely a plus for us this year. Sure he was loose as Paris Hilton at times but he finds the ball...I just want him to go out next year and have a better season again...that will be enough to say Terry got it right to bring him to Punt Rd.
MOORE, Kelvin - 85 - Played all 22 games averaging 16 possessions. You little beauty Kelvin...a great year...most improved player on the list...was rarely beaten...and the kid will establish himself with Luke and Will as the backbone of our defence in years to come.
MORTON, Mitch - 78 - Played 17 games and kicked 35 goals in his first year with the Tiges. You can't ask more than that from a kid. Aim for 50 next year Mitch...have a big preseason...and just work on your spring...I thought on a few occasions that you were outmarked when you clearly were in the best position. But well done.
NEWMAN, Chris - 83 - Played all 22 games averaging 20 possessions. I thought his second half of the year was exceptional...wasn't accountable for his opponent in the early rounds. One of the first picked each week...his common sense, poise and reliability has been a shining light for a team that has struggled in recent years. At 26 and 130 odd games under his belt, I do believe he is "Number 17" material. Should consider a NFL career in 5 years time...he can kick a footy that's for sure.
OAKLEY-NICHOLLS, Jarrad - 10 - Played the 2 games for a total of 5 games in 3 years. I can't get enthused about his future at Tigerland. I've seen players that have become late bloomers...I don't think he is good enough. Sorry Jarrad but you've got to go.
PATTISON, Adam - 65 - Patto played the 18 games and only averaged the 7 disposals and 7 hitouts a game. I like Patto but do concede he struggled this year. Well worth persevering with as he is lion hearted and will get more opportunities when Richo and Simmonds retire in 2 years time. The experience he has gained in his 53 games will put him in good stead for the future. Have a big pre season Patto and work on your agililty.
PETTIFER, Kayne - 20 - Played the 6 games for a total of 109 games for the Tiges and 129 goals. A very much maligned player at the club and I feel he has played his last senior game for the Tiges. Sad to see him get that nasty injury. But with youngsters like Rievoldt, Morton, Patto and Hughes on the list, Kayne becomes trade bait at 26 years of age.
POLAK, Graham - 45 - Played the 11 games and averaged 8 possessions before the awful tram incident that sidelined him. Great to see hear reports he is recovering well. I thought Graham was struggling before the accident. I really do think he is at the crossroads if he does resume next year. He will be 25 and has over 100 games experience. It's time he starts impacting games. A guy his size is invaluable but he hasn't made his presence felt. Has great hands and hopefully he will be given another crack.
POLO, Dean - 30 - Only the 6 games and averaged 17 possessions. I'm inclined to think Johnson and Jackson are keeping Polo out of the side...similar roles but we can't play all 3. Deano will get his chance once the skipper retires. I'd like him to play the small back pocket role next year.
RAINES, Andrew - 10 - The 2 games only for my namesake before he got injured. I was so looking forward to Rainsy establishing himself in the team. I thought he was sensational in 2006 and disappointing in 2007. At 22, he deserves another crack at it.
RICHARDSON, Matthew - 92 - There will never be another Richo. The champ played 20 games, kicked 48 goals, most of them drifting down from the wing. He averaged 18 possessions and 11 marks. All up he has played 276 games and kicked 791 goals. He will be 34 next year. We all know his attributes...we all know his deficiences...best thing to do with Richo is for him to tell us when to hang up the boots. 2008 was pretty close to his best year...Richo you are RICHMOND THROUGH AND THROUGH and deserve to play finals footy in 2009 & 2010...wouldn't it be a fairytale Richo plays his last game in the 2010 Grand Final.
RIEVOLDT, Jack - 70 - Jack played the 18 games for 18 goals. Great hands, top kick for goal...talented...stating the bleeding obvious there. Jack needs to bulk up preseason...was pushed aside too easily in contests which led to him staging for free kicks...leave that to Lloydy Jack. Watch that ball that "yorks" you...not getting down quickly enough...head down at all costs. Jack you're a future star...2009 is your year. Aim for 40 goals...aim for 8-10 marks a game. You can do it.
SCHULZ, Jay - 70 - 18 games, 10 goals...averaged 15 possessions and 6 marks...Best season at he club but was overdue...a poor season would have seen him out...67 games in 6 years and will be 24 next year. How many of those games has Jay been in the best 10 players on the ground ? Hardly any I reckon. I think it's a coin flip whether he stays or not. We can't keep both Polak and Schulz surely...one has to go.
SIMMONDS, Troy - 80 - played all 22 games...represented the Vics...kicked 13 goals...averaged 17 possessions, 6 marks and 16 hitouts. Troy battled courageously without too much support this year. I thought he was exceptional even though he gave away his share of free kicks. He turns 31 next year but is a picture of health. He deserves another quality ruckman to assist him next year. Wouldn't it be sensational to get a Robert Warnock help him out ? Well Done Troy.
TAMBLING, Richard - 78 - played all 22 games averaging 17 possessions...Richie is slowly coming good...I thought his 2nd half of the year was good...loved his run from the back half...anyone notice his tackling has improved out of sight in recent games. He is 22 now and 75 games under his belt...Deledio has played 84 games...I have no doubt whatsoever 2009 will see the rise of Richie...he is on the verge of something very special...Deledio did it this year...Tambling to blitz next year.
THURSFIELD, Will - 80 - played 18 games...missed the 4 games to a hammy injury. I can't believe some of the ferals here knocking Will...they have no vision whatsoever. Will is a star in the making...a future All Australian...he will be 23 next year...has played the 40 games and has been rarely beaten. His closing speed, reach and spring are sensational. I can't wait to see him continue to improve...he needs to hit the gym with Luke and Kelvin again this preseason...they all gave away many free kicks due to their light frame but the trio are so exciting...they are going to ignite our defence in years to come.
TIVENDALE, Greg - 15 - played only the 3 games and was good to see him go out in style playing his last game yesterday. Very much maligned because of his right foot deficiency and constant clangers. But the guy was to play 188 games for the jumper and kicked 125 goals. He made the most of his abilty and I say well done Tivva...I'm sure if he had the current Geelong team around him during his career...he would have gone down as a great player. Over the years he found it hard to soar like an eagle when surrounded by so many turkeys.
TUCK, Shane - 84 - played all 22 games and averaged 25 possessions. It was Tucky's best year to date. I get the feeling like his old man that he will get better as he gets older. He is 27 and played 91 games. I loved the way he attacked the footy this year...I also loved the emotions he displayed...you can just see him busting his guts for success. That wasn't noticeable in previous years. Well done Tucky...I don't believe we've seen the best of you yet which spells great news for the club.
WHITE, Matthew - 73 - played the last 20 games this year and averaged 13 possessions and kicked 11 goals. Love his dash...what Matty needs to do is aim for 20 possessions a game and learn not to give away the easy free kick...he needs to look no further than his captain for guidance. His future is bright at the club.
So going on my ratings I have Richo winning the inaugural RAINSYBABY PLAYER OF THE YEAR. The top 5 were :
RAINSYBABY PLAYER OF THE YEAR
1st - Richo 92
2nd - Deledio 90
3rd - Moore 85
4th - Tuck 84
5th - Newman 83
For the record I gave Terry Wallace a 70 rating this year. I did expect them to play finals this year. Not many of us did. To think we were 6 points from 4th place peeves me off. Anything less than 14 wins in 2009 will be seen as a failure from my end. I have great faith these lads will improve again...if we can pick up a quality Ruckman to help Troy...and either Kerr or Cousins to add class to the midfield that would be sensational. I have great confidence that our defence is fine.
I'd be interested to hear forumites feedback on my review...it's obvious their will be many different opinions...but I think I'm pretty close to the mark.
Bring on the Spring Carnival after the Geelong-Hawthorn blockbuster Grand Final.
Have a great break...and see you all nice and early in 2009 unless something major at the club surfaces beforehand.
RainsyBaby