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Rance replacement

Tigerimij

Tiger Cub
Dec 17, 2018
1
3
Rance wasn't always the superstar he turned into. For a while there whenever he got the ball in was heart in the mouth stuff. They actually are quite simular when you compare their early few years
Hopefully Leppa can weave his magic on Balta like he Rance
 
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tigermike

Tiger Superstar
Apr 6, 2014
1,021
138
As well as the lack of some upper body strength, Chol lacks the three most important things for a key defender, desperation, the ability to make multiple efforts, and also a bit dodgy reading the play.
Chol a long way off being an elite defender. Very dodgy reading the play and tracking the ball in flight esp. on windy days. Too slow to react when around quick forwards.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
11,425
2,421
I think realistically, we could expect a genuine Rance replacement in about 2073
 
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tigermike

Tiger Superstar
Apr 6, 2014
1,021
138
Leppa taught Rance everything he knows apparently.

Balta should be next in line at the Leppitch School for Elite Defenders.
What happened to Balta after a few good games in AFL? Don't think he dominated the VFL. Did he play like he'd made it and stopped working hard enough? I may be misjudging him but I feel he plays too much for Noah and not enough for Richmond. Work to do on his attitude and endurance fitness to make it as a top defender.
 
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spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
11,235
1,460
What happened to Balta after a few good games in AFL? Don't think he dominated the VFL. Did he play like he'd made it and stopped working hard enough? I may be misjudging him but I feel he plays too much for Noah and not enough for Richmond. Work to do on his attitude and endurance fitness to make it as a top defender.
He played ruck/forward in the AFL then went back and played mostly in defence, with the odd release into the ruck and forward. Didn't dominate but played some pretty good footy. Is developing nicely. Marking improved significantly over the year, which puts him ahead of Rance in that department at the same age.
 
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tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
12,160
1,402
Yes, he has.
Sorry I meant to say predominantly unlike Rance. Has had a go in the backline but not where he played most of the time. Played alot of ruck in middle part of the season on was forward alot his last 5 or 6 VFL games. I'm not tagging him as a defender just yet and not sure the Tigers are either.
 
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Don’t Argue

Tiger Matchwinner
Jun 22, 2019
693
954
57
I think Balta can be whatever he wants, certainly a key defender in the Rance mould.

Probably the best equipped physically of any AFL player ever, just needs to harness it.
You probably have never watched Rance and Balta train.
No comparison. Rance has Balta covered in every aspect of desire, determination and commitment. Rance had that from day 1.
The fact Balta is coming stone motherless last in the 300s after his 3rd preseason season should send a clear indication that Balta is not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Rance. That’s a huge red flag to me.
Sam Taylor, drafted in the same year, is the template and a salient comparison.
Misinformed supporters think because Rance came off a seemingly low base and turned into a superstar, anyone can do it. Exception, not the rule.
He was also always a ferocious competitor, and a great reader of the play. He just had to harness his manic approach.
I’m not writing Balta off yet but I’m bloody concerned
 
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The Big Richo

Moderator
Aug 19, 2010
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The home of Dusty
Misinformed supporters think because Rance came off a seemingly low base and turned into a superstar, anyone can do it. Exception, not the rule.
I'd like to think I'm quite informed actually, and I have seen them both train. ;)

There's a bit in your post that I think is quite tough on Balta but before I explain why, let's get straight from the outset that we are comparing someone who is discussed as possibly being the best defender of the modern era, if not the century so the odds Balta will reach that level is remote. What we can hope is he becomes a serviceable or better AFL player.

Where I disagree with you is your questions over him based on training, especially the suggestion that in his third preseason he should be further advanced.

When new draftees come into the system they always have a fitness spike. They have been working towards being drafted and generally do massive cardio loads so when they come in their times are pretty good.

Where they lack is size and strength and developing the physical profile to have the strength to compete in AFL terms and having the durability to be able to withstand the training loads required.

It takes a significant time to adjust their body composition to meet the demands of the sport and for a big guy who relies heavily on strength it is an even longer process, hence big players generally take more time.

For a player of Balta's profile 2 training years is tiny. You would expect him to need 4-6 before he is where he needs to be physically, which is about the stage Rance started to play good footy.

The other thing with training years is the more you have the longer it takes to lose fitness and the quicker you regain it. Big blokes like Balta in their first few seasons lose condition quickly over break and take longer to get it back. Once they get more years under the belt that ceases to be an issue.

The other thing is that the training you see is only one facet of performance. A large part of the work they do is individual and unseen by most people, and there are plenty of guys who just don't get up for things like time trials.

Balta might not win a 300 at training but I guarantee if I hold it with a footy and and open goal at the MCG he finishes top 3. That's far more important for me.

One of the issues with young players now is they are so exposed to the public people's expectations have gone through the roof. A kid used to get three years on the list before anyone knew he existed, now the day they are drafted we know what they have for breakfast and which hand they hold a pen in.

Balta is very much a baby in KPP terms. Don't stress about training habits and fitness issues yet, give him 2 more training years and then see. Remember though they all end up fit, only some have the talent to match it. Balta has that in spades.
 
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BillyJean17

Tiger Superstar
Jul 27, 2009
2,273
68
melbourne
I fee for first time there might be a bit of focus on balta on one posi rather than a utility . His agility for a big fella is A grade , plays with plenty of bravado , if anyone had the traits to follow in rancey big shoes it’s this lad
 

123kid

Tiger Superstar
May 1, 2016
1,693
470
I don’t particularly remember Rance’s early form very clearly, but I thought his mistakes as a young player were quite different to Balta’s.

Balta seems to kick the ball where he intends to. He doesn’t look confused. Uses his traits to create space and reliably execute a simple 60m kick.

Rance used to seem caught in two minds. Then the occasional major skill error due to panic perhaps. He was always able to see the multiple options that existed, I think. He also used to attempt a Houli-style running half back role at times, which demands a significantly higher level of smarts, awareness, and speed of decision making with the ball - plenty of nuance. He just seemed overwhelmed at times, while still looking like a smart footballer.

I’m hoping Balta can be a great stopper, without the ball is where the similarities are striking.
 
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Coburgtiger

Tiger Champion
May 7, 2012
2,836
400
Sorry I meant to say predominantly unlike Rance. Has had a go in the backline but not where he played most of the time. Played alot of ruck in middle part of the season on was forward alot his last 5 or 6 VFL games. I'm not tagging him as a defender just yet and not sure the Tigers are either.
He's played more back than any other position.

The club has trialled him all over the place, trying to get a feel for where he fits best, as well as where he's most required.

For the second half of the year he was playing 3 quarters of a game back, one quarter either forward or ruck.

He also played predominantly back in his last few games in the firsts.

I'd also suggest he can use his attributes best as a running half back. There's a solid argument that he's played his best footy on the ball, but the fact that he keeps starting back despite this suggests where the club wants him.

I don't think it's a big stretch to say the club will play him as a backman now that's where the need is.
 
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tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
12,160
1,402
He's played more back than any other position.

The club has trialled him all over the place, trying to get a feel for where he fits best, as well as where he's most required.

For the second half of the year he was playing 3 quarters of a game back, one quarter either forward or ruck.

He also played predominantly back in his last few games in the firsts.

I'd also suggest he can use his attributes best as a running half back. There's a solid argument that he's played his best footy on the ball, but the fact that he keeps starting back despite this suggests where the club wants him.

I don't think it's a big stretch to say the club will play him as a backman now that's where the need is.
I must have been watching different games to you. He played 13 reserves games, played back early in the season but majority of his games later on were in ruck rotations and managed quite a few goals too. In AFL he played 13 games and I can't remember him playing much back at all, 1 game against the Cats I remember. In fact he had 39 inside 50s and 13 rebound 50s. All I'm saying is I'm not convinced he's being earmarked as a backman. I think he has alot more potential to be used up the ground more and has been trialled in many positions unlike Rance who spent most of his time early in the backline (had a short stint forward).

Ps why is Balta suddenly now needed back? Rance didn't play in 2019. I'd say based on games I've seen, Garthwaite is a more accomplished backman at this stage.
 
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Don’t Argue

Tiger Matchwinner
Jun 22, 2019
693
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I'd like to think I'm quite informed actually, and I have seen them both train. ;)

There's a bit in your post that I think is quite tough on Balta but before I explain why, let's get straight from the outset that we are comparing someone who is discussed as possibly being the best defender of the modern era, if not the century so the odds Balta will reach that level is remote. What we can hope is he becomes a serviceable or better AFL player.

Where I disagree with you is your questions over him based on training, especially the suggestion that in his third preseason he should be further advanced.

When new draftees come into the system they always have a fitness spike. They have been working towards being drafted and generally do massive cardio loads so when they come in their times are pretty good.

Where they lack is size and strength and developing the physical profile to have the strength to compete in AFL terms and having the durability to be able to withstand the training loads required.

It takes a significant time to adjust their body composition to meet the demands of the sport and for a big guy who relies heavily on strength it is an even longer process, hence big players generally take more time.

For a player of Balta's profile 2 training years is tiny. You would expect him to need 4-6 before he is where he needs to be physically, which is about the stage Rance started to play good footy.

The other thing with training years is the more you have the longer it takes to lose fitness and the quicker you regain it. Big blokes like Balta in their first few seasons lose condition quickly over break and take longer to get it back. Once they get more years under the belt that ceases to be an issue.

The other thing is that the training you see is only one facet of performance. A large part of the work they do is individual and unseen by most people, and there are plenty of guys who just don't get up for things like time trials.

Balta might not win a 300 at training but I guarantee if I hold it with a footy and and open goal at the MCG he finishes top 3. That's far more important for me.

One of the issues with young players now is they are so exposed to the public people's expectations have gone through the roof. A kid used to get three years on the list before anyone knew he existed, now the day they are drafted we know what they have for breakfast and which hand they hold a pen in.

Balta is very much a baby in KPP terms. Don't stress about training habits and fitness issues yet, give him 2 more training years and then see. Remember though they all end up fit, only some have the talent to match it. Balta has that in spades.
Firstly apologies as I wasn’t inferring that you personally were misinformed however my point being directed to those specifically comparing Balta directly with Rance due to athletic profile.
Yes they were both big strong athletic juniors. And that’s about it.
Rance was AA U/18s Full back slated to be picked within the first half a dozen young players who slipped to 18 for some unknown reason. What he showed from day one was a frenzied application to be the very best. Leppa had to teach him composure and elite defenders positioning and footwork. Elite training standards translate to elite performance if you have the ability. Balta may have the talent but doesn’t seem to have the desire to be the best yet.
So we should change the thread from Rance replacement to “our next KPD” because you’re spot on when you say Rance was a once in a generation player. Some posters are on here saying there are similarities to the two. Physical appearance yes. Mental approach no. Nothing to do with fitness development you suggest. Fierce desire doesn’t seem to be there. Yet.
 
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CarnTheTiges

This is a REAL tiger
Mar 8, 2004
18,635
743
Victoria
And just because someone starts in a particular position does not mean they’ll stay there depending on team needs. Astbury kicked 3 goals in his first game as a forward and has turned into a top line CHB.