Re: How can we help our club?

[Dyer Disciple]

Fantastic post, Freezer. This pretty much summarises my thoughts on Wallace's tenure as well.

Unlike Tigerbob, I am a Wallace fan and I like his gameplan. I like to watch quick footballers running around and have a dislike of footballers who play negative lockdown footy. I much prefer to watch skilful players show us how good they are with the ball in their hands than watch their minders and stoppers turn the game into a stoppage-fest. Give me a 20 goal to 18 win over a 10 goal to 9 snorefest any day of the week.

Nonetheless, he will have had five years, pretty much unhindered and he has been allowed to do as he pleased over that time. Finals or failure, I'm afraid, there is no middle ground and there are no more excuses that will wash.

See this is the beauty of PRE. We all have such different views.

I've never been a fence sitter, but I am with Wallace. I've been conflicted since Day One. I was a big backer of him in early days and excited to get him but then another part of me had serious issues with the way he built the Bulldogs (next to know talls) and his character, as in the way he left the Bulldogs.

In his time at Richmond he continues to be a enigma. Right down to his game plan. I think he is a good game day coach, and is brilliant at getting into the heads of players and yet I have serious reservations about aspects of his game plan similar to TigerBob.

I think the only thing we are all in agreeance with is

1) His list management sucks
2) He will well and truly (and justifiably) live or die by the sword next season.

 

[doherz]

Maybe? Here are the facts in black & white.

Terry Wallace - 2005-2008 88G 35W 51L 2D WP 40.91%
Danny Frawley - 2000-2004 113G 45W 68L 0D WP 39.82%
Jeff Gieschen - 1997-1999 49G 25W 24L 0D WP 51.02%

BTW don't get me wrong, I am not defending Frawley & Gieschen here but maybe we should be paying peanuts again.

This means nothing. Geischen rode the wave of a team that swooper built which started to peak in 95. Frawley topped up with duds after a single season as he had NFI and that got him the ass. Wallet has thrown all the thrash away over the last 3 or 4 years and is now set to make a tilt in the next 3 or 4.

Review this in 3 years, compare the averages then.

.... Geishen.... :hihi

 

[Freezer]

1) If next year we get to 9 wins and 2 losses by Round 11, and it's the usual suspect kids this year and a few more coming on next year (Collins, Polo, Connor, Pattison etc forget names just as examples), with minimal input from our twilighters, and structure/game plan is looking exciting/promising. Would you be happy for his contract to be renegotiated at that point as has strongly been mooted?

Now who's being mischievous? ;D

I'm gonna assume those 2 losses are to Geelong Rd 2 and the Swans in Sydney, Rd 6. That means we'll have beaten Carlton, Melbourne, North, Brisbane, Port (at AAMI), Essendon, Freo (in Perth) and the Bullies twice, so initially I think it's a bit fanciful. If we did get to that stage, with 3 more wins needed to make the finals, I'd be confident we would make them.

Having said that, if it happens and the scenario playes out like you suggest and on the back of 8 wins out of the last 11 in 2008, then yes, I'd renew. Provided it's predominantly on the back of Lids, Tambling, Cotchin, Hughes, Connors, Thursfield, Moore, Coughlan, maybe a Putt, et al, and not Johnson, Brown, Richo, Schulz, Simmonds, etc. then perhaps the previous 4 years will be starting to bear fruit.

2) If we finish the year 6th. With the same promising signs mentioned above. Will Wallace have won you completely over? And wether he has or not, assuming you think he should be re-signed, how long should his next contract be?

Only a Premiership will completely win me over.

If you're gonna re-sign him, and we've finished 6th with the positive signs you've suggested, I'd give him 2 years. There's no reason that couldn't be extended later if all continues swimmingly, but if we stagnate or go backwards in 2010 and/or 2011 then he'd be out the door. Enough would be enough.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Now who's being mischievous? ;D

I'm gonna assume those 2 losses are to Geelong Rd 2 and the Swans in Sydney, Rd 6. That means we'll have beaten Carlton, Melbourne, North, Brisbane, Port (at AAMI), Essendon, Freo (in Perth) and the Bullies twice, so initially I think it's a bit fanciful. If we did get to that stage, with 3 more wins needed to make the finals, I'd be confident we would make them.

Having said that, if it happens and the scenario playes out like you suggest and on the back of 8 wins out of the last 11 in 2008, then yes, I'd renew. Provided it's predominantly on the back of Lids, Tambling, Cotchin, Hughes, Connors, Thursfield, Moore, Coughlan, maybe a Putt, et al, and not Johnson, Brown, Richo, Schulz, Simmonds, etc. then perhaps the previous 4 years will be starting to bear fruit.

LOL, I'm not being mischevious Freezer. I didn't even consider, think, look at the actual teams being played. It was just a hypothetical (exactly like yours to me), it wasn't an opinion nor was I trying to trap you or whatever made you think that was mischevious.

My main interest was your views on his contract being renewed midyear as has been mooted (and I mentioned) rather than the end of the year.

Only a Premiership will completely win me over.

If you're gonna re-sign him, and we've finished 6th with the positive signs you've suggested, I'd give him 2 years. There's no reason that couldn't be extended later if all continues swimmingly, but if we stagnate or go backwards in 2010 and/or 2011 then he'd be out the door. Enough would be enough.

Hm interesting you would sign him but still not be won over, this is exactly what I refer to as him being a enigma.
After 5 years you still can not be sure if he is right to coach us or not, despite being willing to sign him.

I do agree he should get 2 years though if he is re-signed.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Review this in 3 years, compare the averages then.

Fair enough, I will probably have to add an extra name to the list though. ;D :stir

Good post though, it's impossible to really gauge any of the coaches against each other because all their situations are different.
It's food for thought and has created a fair bit of debate which makes for good reading.

Only time will tell how it ends up for Terry and history will be the judge.

 

[GoodOne]

I think the fact that Geischen and Frawley dont coach at any senior level is a fair indication of their lack of coaching ability at the top level. Wallace is definitely a better coach but does he have the skill to get the Tigers to the top and the ultimate dream? We'll have a better idea this time next year.