Richmond Ruck Stocks 2020 and Beyond | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Richmond Ruck Stocks 2020 and Beyond

Dyer'ere

Licensed to kazoo
Sep 21, 2004
19,226
7,320
Do we take on another ruckman in 2020? Soldo's knee will cost the guts of two years. And CJ is a prospect not a performer.

Whether we do will be heavily influenced by how we rate both Soldo and CJ.

First to our benchmark Toby Nankervis. He polled 2.55 votes per game in the 2020 JDM. Club leader. Therefore Richmond rates Toby Nankervis its best player in 2020. Demonstrated.

Furthermore Nankervis was out of form at times due to just being out of form. But at others was recovering from injury. He was hampered this year and still blitzed our club rankings. Better than that Martin bloke. And better than Short.

So there's our benchmark. Club champion Toby Nankervis.

Ivan Soldo in peak career form averaged 1.07. All players who averaged 1.33 or under were dropped or seldom played. So. But for needing a replacement for Nank or a second ruck Soldo would not have played. Except possibly to develop him. Soldo's place on the park was in some jeopardy IMO prior to his injury.

And had there been a reserves with another player flourishing Soldo would have been chopped. By the JDM benchmarks. FWIW I think Soldo's place on the list is at some risk come end of 2022.

Enter CJ. If we think he can come on we may not take another ruck this year. This is not necessarily about 2021 but 2022 and beyond.

At this stage I'm saying CatB rucks are not a factor. Colina not a factor. A roll of the dice not a banker.

Back to CJ. Our coaches have seen a lot of CJ. And ours are very clever coaches. We already have a very informed view of the likelihood of CJ's succeeding, of his ceiling, of time frame.

If we take a ruck this draft (not CatB) we can draw the conclusion that RFC is pessimistic about CJ. We have established above that Soldo has a low rating.

Further to all of this it's possible that we would take a ruck these drafts but don't rate any of them. We're very choosy at draft time.

What's more we may just take on an experienced hack as insurance against another injury.

We live in fascinating times.

(Thanks to @Ice for the JDM averages.)
 
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Dyer'ere

Licensed to kazoo
Sep 21, 2004
19,226
7,320
VotesGamesVotes per game
Nank
28​
11​
2.55​
Short
53​
21​
2.52​
Martin
50​
20​
2.50​
Vlas
49​
20​
2.45​
Kmac
43​
18​
2.39​
Balta
40​
17​
2.35​
Bolton
44​
19​
2.32​
Edwards
22​
10​
2.20​
Cotch
37​
17​
2.18​
Graham
34​
16​
2.13​
Baker
42​
20​
2.10​
Grimes
41​
20​
2.05​
Aarts
28​
14​
2.00​
Markov
12​
6​
2.00​
Lambert
39​
20​
1.95​
Prestia
17​
9​
1.89​
Lynch
33​
19​
1.74​
DTLD
15​
9​
1.67​
Rioli
29​
18​
1.61​
George
32​
21​
1.52​
Houli
19​
13​
1.46​
Riewoldt
29​
21​
1.38​
Pickett
26​
19​
1.37​
Egg
8​
6​
1.33​
Caddy
9​
8​
1.13​
Soldo
15​
14​
1.07​
Broad
16​
16​
1.00​
Higgins
10​
10​
1.00​
Chol
8​
11​
0.73​
Ross
4​
7​
0.57​
Dow
1​
2​
0.50​
Stack
4​
9​
0.44​
Naish
0​
1​
0.00​
 
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Jonesracing82

Tiger Champion
Sep 30, 2011
4,530
3,287
Do we take on another ruckman in 2020? Soldo's knee will cost the guts of two years. And CJ is a prospect not a performer.

Whether we do will be heavily influenced by how we rate both Soldo and CJ.

First to our benchmark Toby Nankervis. He polled 2.55 votes per game in the 2020 JDM. Club leader. Therefore Richmond rates Toby Nankervis its best player in 2020. Demonstrated.

Furthermore Nankervis was out of form at times due to just being out of form. But at others was recovering from injury. He was hampered this year and still blitzed our club rankings. Better than that Martin bloke. And better than Short.

So there's our benchmark. Club champion Toby Nankervis.

Ivan Soldo in peak career form averaged 1.07. All players who averaged 1.33 or under were dropped or seldom played. So. But for needing a replacement for Nank or a second ruck Soldo would not have played. Except possibly to develop him. Soldo's place on the park was in some jeopardy IMO prior to his injury.

And had there been a reserves with another player flourishing Soldo would have been chopped. By the JDM benchmarks. FWIW I think Soldo's place on the list is at some risk come end of 2022.

Enter CJ. If we think he can come on we may not take another ruck this year. This is not necessarily about 2021 but 2022 and beyond.

At this stage I'm saying CatB rucks are not a factor. Colina not a factor. A roll of the dice not a banker.

Back to CJ. Our coaches have seen a lot of CJ. And ours are very clever coaches. We already have a very informed view of the likelihood of CJ's succeeding, of his ceiling, of time frame.

If we take a ruck this draft (not CatB) we can draw the conclusion that RFC is pessimistic about CJ. We have established above that Soldo has a low rating.

Further to all of this it's possible that we would take a ruck these drafts but don't rate any of them. We're very choosy at draft time.

What's more we may just take on an experienced hack as insurance against another injury.

We live in fascinating times.

(Thanks to @Ice for the JDM averages.)
I reckon we should get one, even as a back up, also keeping in mind CJ can't play till Rd 5 & while Nank hasn't been the most durable the last couple of yrs he also needs a chopout at some stage during the season.
 
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Dont Argue

Tiger Legend
Jun 26, 2018
5,777
12,388
Do we take on another ruckman in 2020? Soldo's knee will cost the guts of two years. And CJ is a prospect not a performer.

Whether we do will be heavily influenced by how we rate both Soldo and CJ.

First to our benchmark Toby Nankervis. He polled 2.55 votes per game in the 2020 JDM. Club leader. Therefore Richmond rates Toby Nankervis its best player in 2020. Demonstrated.

Furthermore Nankervis was out of form at times due to just being out of form. But at others was recovering from injury. He was hampered this year and still blitzed our club rankings. Better than that Martin bloke. And better than Short.

So there's our benchmark. Club champion Toby Nankervis.

Ivan Soldo in peak career form averaged 1.07. All players who averaged 1.33 or under were dropped or seldom played. So. But for needing a replacement for Nank or a second ruck Soldo would not have played. Except possibly to develop him. Soldo's place on the park was in some jeopardy IMO prior to his injury.

And had there been a reserves with another player flourishing Soldo would have been chopped. By the JDM benchmarks. FWIW I think Soldo's place on the list is at some risk come end of 2022.

Enter CJ. If we think he can come on we may not take another ruck this year. This is not necessarily about 2021 but 2022 and beyond.

At this stage I'm saying CatB rucks are not a factor. Colina not a factor. A roll of the dice not a banker.

Back to CJ. Our coaches have seen a lot of CJ. And ours are very clever coaches. We already have a very informed view of the likelihood of CJ's succeeding, of his ceiling, of time frame.

If we take a ruck this draft (not CatB) we can draw the conclusion that RFC is pessimistic about CJ. We have established above that Soldo has a low rating.

Further to all of this it's possible that we would take a ruck these drafts but don't rate any of them. We're very choosy at draft time.

What's more we may just take on an experienced hack as insurance against another injury.

We live in fascinating times.

(Thanks to @Ice for the JDM averages.)
Surely you are talking about the 2018 season?
Soldo out of form? He kept Nanks out of the team and would have been the No.1 ruck if he hadn’t been injured.
JDM stats? Surely you’re better than that Dyre’ere or is this one of your verbal rubic cubes that you like to throw out there?
Soldo is a walk up start when fit but after Nank’s heroics will start firmly behind him now
 
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seven

Super Tiger
Apr 20, 2004
26,439
12,406
Think we need a forward line stock thread.
We need to start looking at building it up
 
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Dyer'ere

Licensed to kazoo
Sep 21, 2004
19,226
7,320
Have another look at the post, DA.

Soldo = career peak form.
Nank = out of form and recovering from injury at others.

The thrust of my post is nothing to do with my views. It's about the demonstrated ratings of the club using the JDM votes as proving how RFC rates player performance.

It's not about what I think we should do. But what we will do, based on the demonstrated (proven by doing) views of the RFC.

That you or I might think that Soldo outperformed Nankervis at times in 2020, that he may even have replaced Nank as #1 is not the issue. It's not the view of RFC panel - see votes above.

On my views, if I were Soldo's manager he would be heading to say Gold Coast at the end of 2022. Or, if push came to shove, 2021.
 
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Dyer'ere

Licensed to kazoo
Sep 21, 2004
19,226
7,320
On taking rucks at the National Draft, Jr82, Brodie Grundy is the the pin up boy of that school. Our bloke Soldo cost us nothing in draft currency and breaks square with Millionaire these days.

More to the point what did CJ cost RFC? Here are the ten players we might have taken instead -


2​
21​
Oscar Allen​
West Coast​
2​
22​
Lachie Fogarty​
Geelong​
2​
23​
Will Walker​
North Melbourne​
2​
24​
Tim Kelly​
Geelong​
2​
25​
Noah Balta​
Richmond​
2​
26​
Liam Ryan​
West Coast​
2​
27​
Brent Daniels​
Greater Western Sydney​
2​
28​
Sam Taylor​
Greater Western Sydney​
2​
29​
Charlie Spargo​
Melbourne​
2​
30​
Tom De Koning​
Carlton​

It worked out very well for us that we had pick 25. It is a game of chance. We rated CJ above Balta and Wells rated Fogarty above Kelly.

A simple rule is never take a ruck in the first round. Above we see the usual evidence that the second is also too early.

The rule used to be only rookies. But because the rule was so solid the price of rookie rucks rose and the most promising went late in the ND. And then that rule evolved into a bit earlier. Interesting to see how that shapes this year.
 
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year of the tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 26, 2008
9,499
6,659
Tasmania
My take (very subjective) during the year was that Soldo was established and we would have had 2 rucks play the final series - evidence is that we had 2 rucks for most of the year and from memory during last years final series also - we gave Chol a good run this year.

I thought Soldo was building and I would hate to have to rate Soldo v Nank.

Yet to be convinced of your argument Dyer’ere that Soldo would be on shaky ground come 2022 - he’s a pup by ruck age.

Given Balta and Chol can ruck I would be surprised if we drafted another this year (unless they were the best available) - we need another KPP forward to develop IMO.

good discussion though
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,323
19,890
Nank when fit is our number one ruckman. He's a warrior, and was outstanding during the finals, especially when being tag teamed by Lycett and Ladhams in the prelim final. They should build a statue for his marks in the last quarter.
He laid 20 tackles during the finals, he'd be in a sh!t sandwich except he doesn't like bread.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
30,055
12,453
Yep, I’ve said before we need a 12 month ruckman. So not a kid from the unders but a mature one. There weren’t too many delisted recently (Ryan Abbot......) and the cupboards a bit bare in the VFL (and they didn’t even play this season) so I’d be thinking one from the WAFL or SANFL. Ex Crow Paul Hunter and ex Pie Corey Gault were the premier ruckman from those 2 leagues and seem to fit the bill and easily obtainable in the rookie draft.
 
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tigers1980

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 24, 2012
877
511
KPF is a far more pressing issue than finding another ruck.

I'm reasonably optimistic that our ruck stocks are serviceable and have been so since breaking our premiership drought in 2017.
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,323
19,890
Yep, I’ve said before we need a 12 month ruckman. So not a kid from the unders but a mature one. There weren’t too many delisted recently (Ryan Abbot......) and the cupboards a bit bare in the VFL (and they didn’t even play this season) so I’d be thinking one from the WAFL or SANFL. Ex Crow Paul Hunter and ex Pie Corey Gault were the premier ruckman from those 2 leagues and seem to fit the bill and easily obtainable in the rookie draft.
I like Corey Gault and have been going to mention him, he'd be perfect for the 12 months that Ivan is out.
 
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wigglyworm

Tiger Matchwinner
Jan 22, 2008
975
999
Cant see us taking another Ruck. CJ will be allowed to flourish this year hopefully after having a rocket put up him. We have enough "rough cover" through Mabs, Miller and others if Nank picks up a niggle early on.
 
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year of the tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 26, 2008
9,499
6,659
Tasmania
Is that what the mid season draft (s) are now for - if Nank goes down for any period of time.

Still reckon we can cover rucks for awhile but acknowledge it is a risk being one down already
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,142
14,981
Good discussion. Given Soldo's form early/mid season I thought Nank might be the one to be traded. We do need cover next year - Nank number one, are CCJ/Chol enough? Maybe.
 

UKTiger

Tiger Legend
Jul 11, 2010
9,409
7,672
Shipston on Stour, UK
From my view we currently only have one ruckman ready to play. CCL is at least 5 games off, Ivan up to 12 months off and Chol who has a number of attributes also has many negative factors so cannot be relied upon. Talk of Astbury, KMac or even Miller is wide of the mark as they are too small and so can only be classed as spoilers in the ruck. In view of this I go back to one of my earlier posts where I said we should look at drafting a reasonable ruck nearing the latter stages of his career on a 12 month contract as an insurance policy
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,516
26,012
Ruckmen are like gold bullion.

(Toby Nankervis is like diamond encrusted, platinum coated, plutonium enriched gold bullion)

If theres a snakey one there in round 2, grab him
 
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zippadeee

Tiger Legend
Oct 8, 2004
39,639
15,415
We have proven that you don't need Simon Maddens but Justin Charles types to help you win a flag.
I think the club has multiple options to play in the ruck, Balta, Nakas, Chol, Cj etc.
Unless we have someone in mind, i wouldn't be wasting any picks on a ruckman.
 
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