Richmond's next trade strategies - great article from The Roar

[AngryAnt]

It's a nice article - but seriously? Holding up Geelong as the model to follow in a rebuild? They've won 1 premiership in twelve years. And they don't have the look of dynasty about them now do they? I reckon we're much closer to our next dynasty than Geelong. Much. Give me a gun forward in free agency and one or two jets in the midfield - drafted or traded in - over the next few years and we're good for another 3 flags between 2025 - 2030. As sure as there's sand in the Sahara, Geelong are in for a long dry spell.

Hope you are right about Geelong, but I don't think he quite says that... he says Geelong did well by hanging onto the champs for as long as possible (eg Selwood) and taking huge swings on getting Cameron and Dangerfield. And absolutely don't do what Hawthorn did, recruiting semi-duds like O'Meara. But also we've done that in the past with Prestia and Lynch and that did pay off. But we will need to do it again.

On re-reading I think he actually agrees with @thebigricho more than richo realises - he sees HopperTaranto as much better than JOM etc but not at the same levels as Lynch/Prestia, and those recruits might preclude us being able to get the next KPF we need.

I disagree that we need to stock up on key backs - we are well covered in that regard. So it's a gun mid and a gun KP forward for me. Get it done Blair or whoever does that stuff these days.

 

[eZyT]

Right now he's better than all of them, even Shai, just in terms of sheer output. But not better than Dusty/Cotch/Prestia in 2017, fair enough.

Disagree with TBR that he has to be the "prime mid", although I guess you could make that case given his contract details. And yes, he's a part of the puzzle, not the whole thing.

Disagree TT is better than shai, but that a matter of preference

700/year is 2nd mid money these days isnt it?

And half way through his contract, it'll be 3rd mid money,

Wont it?

 

[FitenFitenWin]

I disagree that we need to stock up on key backs - we are well covered in that regard. So it's a gun mid and a gun KP forward for me. Get it done Blair or whoever does that stuff these days.

We are in furious agreement on this point All Aus.

 

[Razorgang2]

Surely he’s hit 147

Nah, he's only at 149.

 

[Razorgang2]

Which part? That he isn't very good nor arguably in the top 150 players in the AFL? That he would not have made any of our premiership sides? That we may not have won if he was in those GF sides? Ot that his turnovers caused 2 of the first 3 GWS scores?

Given that the last part is the only real refutable statement (although on many statistical measures the first part could be argued to be total crap), and it has been refuted by RE, I'd contend a lot of what the masseuse claims as fact should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.

C'mon Jazzy, put him back in his box, where he should be.

 

[The Big Richo]

you have me intrigued - completely disagree though on 2 of first 3 scores and you have and bit of confirmation bias going on here. definitely 1 of 3 but not from a skill error. like you i couldn't find it on kayo but once i searched 'richmond' it came up in a list. kayo really does suck.

- first behind is from a holding the ball as opposed to a kicking error (dodges first tackle and gets caught by second and had time to release quickly) - not sure this is a pattern we are concerned about
- second behind prestia pushed in back, gets landed on back and makes no attempt to dispose of it probably expecting to get a free (bit silly to expect that and then not to do the pretend effort to dispose of it that most players do - and a pattern for him) then holding the ball
- third behind taranto puts it in front of riewoldt and to his advantage in a good spot who is spoiled and/or not strong enough to mark and GWS grab the crumb. this was a really good kick. ive watched it three times. he did have an open runner to his left that was probably a better handpass option than to kick it - but riewoldt should have
marked it and if he did the runner to the left would have been the next option (whereas if he handpassed riewoldt is not in position to get the following kick). plus you can't see up the ground on the TV footage to know what else is unfolding.
- next scoring play he win a HTB and kicks accurately for a goal

Sorry a few simulation rounds at LA Country Club and Royal Liverpool got in the way this afternoon.

I've just posted a thread with the first quarter done and I address the free kick thing. I'd guess having the ball and losing it via free kick would be a turnover but I'm not going to count them for the sake of the exercise.

The second one is definitely a turnover - he has the ball, disposes and next possession is the opposition.

That's it for the quarter though so a good start for him.

 

[tiger76]

Can anyone find our game replay on Kayo?

I've tried on TV and phone and nothing. All other games are there but ours is only a mini.

It seems to only be available as a mini game / highlights package on Kayo.

Shysters.

 

[AngryAnt]

Disagree TT is better than shai, but that a matter of preference

700/year is 2nd mid money these days isnt it?

And half way through his contract, it'll be 3rd mid money,

Wont it?

Shai at his best is better than anyone, agree.

 

[BT Tiger]

It seems to only be available as a mini game / highlights package on Kayo.

Shysters.

Just google AFL match replays and it'll be one of the top links.

 

[Smilliedell]

You know, none of this discussion would be happening if he just looked up before he disposed.

He's a gun in every way except composure. And it's really fixable too.

If I was his coach, I'd throw an egg at him every time he looks at his boot when he kicks. Just. Look. Up.

He'd be the best player in the league over night.

Or we'd be asking chickens to lay overtime

 

[Judge Smailes]

Interesting article. One thing not mentioned that I feel is critical is the impact of the rule changes. Without the stand rule I don’t think Geelong is winning last year. Their strategy doesn’t look so sh’ite hot then with over a decade of poor finals performances Without a flag.

Truth.

 

[The Big Richo]

I might partially agree with BR on TT.

I think your gonna struggle to win a flag if hes your BEST midfielder.

He isnt as good as cotchy, dusty, shai, dion, sheds.

But that is certainly not to say he isnt very good.

If hes your 3rd best mid, and hopper your 4th, your in very good shape.

We have No.1 in Shai. We just need either Sonz to climb into No.2, or grab noah anderson

That's pretty much summing up better than I have expressed it. Only difference is I think Taranto and Hopper have to be your 4th and 5th.

 

[The Big Richo]

1. Is it true champion data invented metres gained stat in 2018 to explain richmond?

False, I have metres gained from at least 2012.

I'll look at the rest tomorrow.

 

[TigerMasochist]

You know, none of this discussion would be happening if he just looked up before he disposed.

He's a gun in every way except composure. And it's really fixable too.

If I was his coach, I'd throw an egg at him every time he looks at his boot when he kicks. Just. Look. Up.

He'd be the best player in the league over night.

Gotta look at his boot so he can be certain it hits the ball when he's trying to kick.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Are we looking for The Mother of Invention?

Don't need to look for the Mothers, that was a bunch of Frankies mates from years back. They're all fairly old gerries now n probably not much into footy.

 

[RoarEmotion]

The second one is definitely a turnover - he has the ball, disposes and next possession is the opposition.

It may meet the definition of a turnover - I'm not a statistician - but it actually makes the opposite point IMO.

What did you think of the kick?

The defender is on Jack's right shoulder and he kicks it front of Jack and to his left. Gave him every chance to mark it.

Hypothetically if Jack marks the kick kicked to his advantage then Taranto's kick isn't a turnover? I'm sure these things even out over time but this being counted as a turnover just seems wrong to me. If he kicked it over Jack's head and the defender marks it then fair enough.

 

[eZyT]

It may meet the definition of a turnover - I'm not a statistician - but it actually makes the opposite point IMO.

What did you think of the kick?

The defender is on Jack's right shoulder and he kicks it front of Jack and to his left. Gave him every chance to mark it.

Hypothetically if Jack marks the kick kicked to his advantage then Taranto's kick isn't a turnover? I'm sure these things even out over time but this being counted as a turnover just seems wrong to me. If he kicked it over Jack's head and the defender marks it then fair enough.

that's a good point.

early career Shane Edwards, his disposal was perfect, it was his teammates positioning that was flawed.

im not comparing TT to Sheds.

part of TT issue is he seems susceptible to perceived pressure and bangs it on the boot.

this may be a side effect of a new system.

he'll get better as the system is built around him, especially on a level footing with a new coach and clear air with the old champs gone.

ditto Hopper.

people think footballers are robots, but in reality, they're a fragile ego running around with 21 other fragile egos, with a puppet master ego trying to make them work as one egoless entity. that's when the magic happens.

you throw a new bull in a paddock, and the herd take turns head butting them into fences for a week or so, and then they line up to get rooted by him.

my point isn't that TT and JH are gonna root any teammates ,

but that they will be significantly better contributors to the team in season 2.

this is currently the best discussion on PRE.

 

[AngryAnt]

this is currently the best discussion on PRE.

Do I get a score involvement stat for starting the thread

 

[RoarEmotion]

Do I get a score involvement stat for starting the thread

Not if there was a turnover in the middle. Then you get a turnover.

Even if it got returned over and led to a goal.

 

[eZyT]

Do I get a score involvement stat for starting the thread

sure.

I think @The Big Richo has most metres gained easily covered though