Rucks: superfluous baggage or premiership prime movers?'

[The tooth]

The consensus seems to be that you need a decent, or at least winning, ruck in your team to get to the top of the mountain

We will likely have decent choices in the the next draft and need to face the fact that we haven't successfully drafted a decent ruckman since 1980.

So do we use the top pick this yr and develop around that player? Realistically we are 5+ years away at best so maybe we take our medicine now? Not sure

Or do we just pick the best KPP and midfield possible from the draft for the next few years?

Or do we use the rookie or current player draft to aggresssively "speculate" on rucks to allow us flexibility to use our picks to get the best value from the draft?

I think the answer is probably that you need the KPP/midfield before the ruck, but don't expect to make it to the top of the pile without a decent ruck. So although I'd be tempted to take a great ruck prospect this year, we probably need to continue to build the the foundation because we don't have one yet

 

[pokey]

If Everitt had played in the 1997 GF, St Kilda would have a second flag flying down at Moorabin.

Whilst we shouldn't sell our soul for a ruckman, they are valuable, especially when the heat is on in September. They may not have won too many Norm Smiths, but they can be the difference between winning and losing in the big one.

We'd better hurry up as we need one for 2011.

 

[Phar Ace]

If Everitt had played in the 1997 GF, St Kilda would have a second flag flying down at Moorabin.

Whilst we shouldn't sell our soul for a ruckman, they are valuable, especially when the heat is on in September. They may not have won too many Norm Smiths, but they can be the difference between winning and losing in the big one.

We'd better hurry up as we need one for 2011.

Agree, good ruckman don't drive the game but are the discernible difference between winning and losing. 20 to 40 taps that cause 3-4 more outstanding scoring opportunities than the opposition is, directly or by way of assist, a match-winning peformance.

 

[Redford]

So, if a ruckman is the discernible difference, then what does that make a CHF or CHB or on-baller ? Chopped liver ? They are the REGULAR differnce makers, not basic tap ruckmen.

Fact is, they're the least important and the proof is that premierships can be won without very good ones.

 

[Scoop]

After watching the Port game last night if a ruckman is to be a lumbering type, Brendan Lade is the type you want. Compete in the ruck and win some hit outs, enough of a footballing brain to be a link man with out being able to run and bounce like Cox and then go forward and be a threat to snare one but more importantly smash the pack wide open.

I reckon Lade set up four goals by hitting the pack, making a spill and having his team mates know that he will bring the ball to ground.

Lumbering ruckman are fine as long as they can do those things.

 

[Dyer'ere]

Lade is a great example. He is not far off the best kick in the AFL IMO.

So that's a clue. A good trait to look for in a prospective ruck is elite kicking.

But he took years of development. I reckon Williams had him play loose across half back for nearly two years to get him to stand up under the ball. Because he looks rough don't mean he is. The physical side of the game did not come readily to this bloke.

Lade reminds me a little of Benny Gale. A natural ruckman who wasted years trying out as a key forward. He's 31yo now. Been a good ordinary player for the bulk of his career but in the last three seasons has improved to be close to the best ruck in the AFL.

He's one of the few regular AFL rucks whose drafting position can't be compared. He was taken as part of the Port Power's inaugural squad. Not taken through the modern ND as such.

 

[Redford]

So that's a clue. A good trait to look for in a prospective ruck is elite kicking.

You mean like Angus Graham ?

 

[blaisee]

Greg Miller, for what it is worth thinks that Adam Pattison will develop into a brendan Lade type ruckman

Lade is slow but very smart and very skillful

Patto is slow, could end up beuing very smart but is very unskilled.

Dyere do you reckon patto could become lade?

 

[Dyer'ere]

I don't see any similarities between Lade and Patto at the same age, blaisee. Patto reminds me of Earl Spalding. Spalding played in at least one premiership side. Or Mike Swamp Fox Patterson, who played in.... two?

I can see improvement in Patto's kicking. To some extent I buy the theory that rucks take a long time to figure out how to kick. FWIW I don't know where AP can play if not ruck/FP. And I think he'll be a very useful #3 ruck by the end of the season.

You mean like Angus Graham ?

Exactly. ;D

I don''t reckon Graham was a disastrous choice. The thing I would change in our practice when selecting rucks is I would draft older youngsters-- 20+. We're just starting to get a look at Graham now. We took him two years too early, if we should have taken him at all.

For the sucker play of that rookie draft compare our ruck selection with Dadoro's- Lochie McKinnon.

I hope we look to take experienced rucks from the WAFL and SANFL, VFL from time to time. I can see a place for a Rix on a list and I'm a big fan of Hudson.

 

[Growl]

Silly question - why didn't we do anything about Rix when he was available?

 

[Dyer'ere]

He's a complete hack, Growl. Only the anti ruck lobby would have him. Very much a back up.

The thing about Rix is that he can stop the other team's rucks from giving their mids an armchair ride. He's a harm minimisation plan.

Hudson and Rix are similar types (Hudson vastly superior IMO). To get a Hudson you have to be prepared to punt on a Rix- twenty-something VFL ruck.

 

[pokey]

What about David Fanning?

BOG on the weekend in the VFL. He has a basketball background, so it's no surprise that he is taking longer to develop. He's a genuine 6 foot 8 from memory, which can't hurt as we don't have a big giant on our list.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

He's a complete hack, Growl. Only the anti ruck lobby would have him. Very much a back up.

The thing about Rix is that he can stop the other team's rucks from giving their mids an armchair ride. He's a harm minimisation plan.

Hudson and Rix are similar types (Hudson vastly superior IMO). To get a Hudson you have to be prepared to punt on a Rix- twenty-something VFL ruck.

Where does that leave Barry Brooks? Probably a fifth-choice ruckman at Moorabbin behind Clarke, Gardiner, Rix and Koschitzke after 6 years in the system as a #15 pick. Saints also have two rookie-listed ruckmen.

Haven't seen him play, what's his problem?

 

[Dyer'ere]

Where does that leave Barry Brooks? Probably a fifth-choice ruckman at Moorabbin behind Clarke, Gardiner, Rix and Koschitzke after 6 years in the system as a #15 pick. Saints also have two rookie-listed ruckmen.

Haven't seen him play, what's his problem?

You could watch a dozen games in which he's named and not see him play, LtRtR. ;D Might as well not be out there. He cost PtA selection #15 and StK #6 (?) IIRC.

Oh, and you can move him in front of Gardiner, Lee. That's over and out. The scoop is- one late night too many, injured or no.