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Russia Invades Ukraine
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
Not much detail there Harry. Would this have happened if Russia didn't invade?
Western media have failed dismally in reporting the Ukraine war - Pearls and Irritations
Western news agencies have rushed to tell the Ukraine side of the story but they have ignored the Russian side of the story.johnmenadue.com
And the author appears a complete apolgogist to various dictatorships - North Korea, China, Russia.
Agreed no detail and just probing statements. Things like this mean nothing as they are trying to infer that it was Ukraine that bombed the station with no follow up and no evidence.
"When two cluster bombs recently killed some fifty people at the Kramatorsk railway station in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine the media immediately assumed Russia was to blame.
But the survivors, like the victims, were all Russian speakers in the pro-Russian area of Donbas supposed to be protected by the Minsk agreements of 2014-15.
The media and pundits rushing to interview the survivors for atrocity stories made no mention of this. Few seemed even to realise the survivors were speaking in Russian."
Bare in mind Mariupol was a very pro Russian city prior to the war, potentially more so than many areas of the Donbas, but that didn't stop the Russians flattening the city. To infer that the survivors of the bombings spoke Russian as "analysis" that it was the Ukrainians is ridiculous.
Who ever said statecraft and diplomacy were easy?
I do like the way everything I say is constantly misrepresented by those who portray this as a simple good v evil scenario with all the blame on one side.
Diplomacy and statecraft is the harder path to follow, does have the advantage of saving a lot of lives though. Much easier to just point and call names like madman, dictator, evil etc. Actually understanding the geopolitical realities and how these situations come about is clearly too much effort.
DS
I do like the way everything I say is constantly misrepresented by those who portray this as a simple good v evil scenario with all the blame on one side.
Diplomacy and statecraft is the harder path to follow, does have the advantage of saving a lot of lives though. Much easier to just point and call names like madman, dictator, evil etc. Actually understanding the geopolitical realities and how these situations come about is clearly too much effort.
DS
No diplomacy.
No statecraft.
No desire for the war to end.
Hasnt it been reported that French President, German Chancellor, UN Secretary General have all spoken directly to Putin?
Even the Pope made a sermon and reached out For a truce over the Orthodox Easter.
Sounds like diplomacy from world leaders
No statecraft.
No desire for the war to end.
Hasnt it been reported that French President, German Chancellor, UN Secretary General have all spoken directly to Putin?
Even the Pope made a sermon and reached out For a truce over the Orthodox Easter.
Sounds like diplomacy from world leaders
NATO only exists to oppose Russia you say
And Russia has invaded another of its neighbours, one that isn't a traditional enemy but a country with cultural and familial links to Russia.
Sounds like a good reason for countries to have the NATO alliance
And Russia has invaded another of its neighbours, one that isn't a traditional enemy but a country with cultural and familial links to Russia.
Sounds like a good reason for countries to have the NATO alliance
Meet Patrick Lancaster: A U.S. Navy veteran from Missouri and Russia’s favorite war propagandist
It was late March, and Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was going poorly. The Kremlin had done its best to black out Western coverage of the war domestically, as well as its reports of failed Russian advances and widespread brutality. On the Kremlin’s flagship media...
www.grid.news
Meet Patrick Lancaster: A U.S. Navy veteran from Missouri and Russia’s favorite war propagandist
It was late March, and Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was going poorly. The Kremlin had done its best to black out Western coverage of the war domestically, as well as its reports of failed Russian advances and widespread brutality. On the Kremlin’s flagship media...
Harry always falls for these useful idiots.
Well of course now Finland and Sweden are "provoking Russia" by joining NATO. Poor Vlad is now provoked further and must therefore invade Sweden and Finland. David will then push for a "way out of the war" by getting Sweden and Finland to cede half their territories to Moscow, because otherwise the West will continue to "punish Putin" by "fighting to the last dead Finn/Swede".
I think I'm catching on to how statecraft works now
There's plenty of evidence elsewhere to support what the people in his videos are saying and what's been happening to the people of dombass during the past 8 years.Meet Patrick Lancaster: A U.S. Navy veteran from Missouri and Russia’s favorite war propagandist
It was late March, and Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was going poorly. The Kremlin had done its best to black out Western coverage of the war domestically, as well as its reports of failed Russian advances and widespread brutality. On the Kremlin’s flagship media...
So you're happy with people dying and cities being leveled because it avoids having to negotiate and actually put in the hard effort to resolve issues without resorting to war.
Fine, see, I can put words in your mouth too, enjoying this?
I'll leave you in your safe world of goodies and baddies and lament that people die because there is a refusal to actually engage with the many complex issues which are part of international relations. You really would get on well with Peter Dutton, he likes a bit of sabre rattling and comic book level analysis of international relations.
DS
That post was totally devoid of anything but ad hominem, which at least shows you have no answers, but here we go.
One person wanted this war and has driven it to the detriment of the rest of the world - he is surrounded by an extremely tight circle of yes men and it's not even clear whether even he knows the mess he has got Russia into, although by now you'd expect the penny to have finally dropped. Your narrative is exceedingly unclear - you claim more carrot/less stick and more "statecraft" (on the part of the West, not Russia strangely) would have prevented this situation. Give me one example of a "carrot" that NATO/Europe/the West could have used that Putin would not have ruthlessly exploited and used to further his ambitions.
Realpolitik - just no. Realpolitik would have prevented Russia from entering this war which has been disasterous for Putin, the Russian economy and the Russian people. And yet he did it for domestic political reasons and a bizarre notion of Russia's place in the world, and the history of Russia as a "great power". "Realpolitik" has meant that Ukraine will now be an absolute enemy of Russia for the rest of our lifetimes and probably for much longer. We have NATO and Europe now more united than ever - we also have Sweden and Finland joining NATO - so Realpolitik is not the correct lens to assess this conflict, and it's pretty much only hardcore Russia apologists who still argue this line.
So here's the question - now that NATO is more united than ever, Ukraine is a sworn enemy of Russia forever, and Finland and Sweden join NATO, what will be Russia's "Realpolitik" response?
Looking forward to your next set of semi-coherent insults.
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Do you understand that Putin clearly stated a red line, many times over many years, and the red line was Georgia and Ukraine.
So you extrapolate invading Finland and Sweden from this?
Fine, whatevs, ignore the history, ignore the context, continue to live in a world where goodies and baddies are well defined and clearly labelled. Don't use the opportunity of Putin's own words to limit what he can do and just proceed to conflict. How's that going?
DS
So you extrapolate invading Finland and Sweden from this?
Fine, whatevs, ignore the history, ignore the context, continue to live in a world where goodies and baddies are well defined and clearly labelled. Don't use the opportunity of Putin's own words to limit what he can do and just proceed to conflict. How's that going?
DS
Putin's "red lines" were the deployment of certain strategic strike missiles in Ukraine. That never happened. The other red line was Ukraine joining NATO - that never happened either.
Putin warns Russia will act if NATO crosses its red lines in Ukraine
President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Russia would be forced to act if its "red lines" on Ukraine were crossed by NATO, saying Moscow would view the deployment of certain offensive missile capabilities on Ukrainian soil as a trigger.
www.reuters.com
But, Putin still invaded, and he made it clear why in his rambling televised speech of February 23rd 2022.
"In his televised address, Putin also said the operation would aim for the “demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine” and urged Ukrainian soldiers fighting Russian-backed rebels to lay down their weapons and return to their homes.
He said he’d been driven to it.
“This is that red line that I talked about multiple times,” Putin said. “They have crossed it.”
His mission was “to defend people who for eight years are suffering persecution and genocide by the Kyiv regime,” repeating the frequently aired false claim that Ukraine has been committing war crimes against native Russian speakers."
David, you don't even know the reason he invaded was to "safeguard" Russians in the Donbas. For someone who blathers on about people being ignorant, simplistic and "ignoring history" you are amazingly ignorant of why Putin claims he invaded Ukraine - oh I mean the reason he mounted a "special peacekeeping operation in Donbas".
You literally did not even know the pretext that Putin used to invade - er sorry - mount a "special operation" in Donbas - was de-Nazification. You are so focussed on what was said 50 years ago you have no idea what happened two months ago.
Either you didn't know that, or you are more interested in covering up for Putin than you are in the truth. Either way, that's a massive, massive fail dude.
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