Schulz 7 preseasons of nothing

[Rod]

Cleve Hughes should go before Shulz!

 

[GoodOne]

I'm just as fed up and emotional as you and others but I'm just dogged now on focussing on this more mess more deeper. I am sick of discussing about why this player is still in the system and why this kid hasn't developed, I don't know how people have the energy to still do it. It's reactionary and symptomatic of the problem at our club, too much finger pointing and addressing symptoms than focussing on the deeper problem.

Fair comments DD. You may or may not know that I am not a 'bag as much as you can' sort of person. I like to see the positives too and will often portray the positive side of a situation. My pet hate though is having and holding on to players who don't live up to their potential because they dont try. In a team game that is the worst trait to have. Success is bred from working for each other not for oneself. We will never experience success if we dont address that primary important issue. That is why I focus on the Schulz's and the Tamblings.

You obviously have more inside knowledge of recent goings on than most of us so I am not going to dispute your argument. So what is the solution? Where do we start?

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

It's all obvious mate, we're not trying to figure out how to travel through time here. I think you're deluding yourself a bit if you don't think it is armchair moaning when a thread on this is posted a few hours after another abysmal loss, it's a discussion that has also been done to death and "obvious" as you say. :hihi It's just one more of the Sack Wallace, Sack March, Sack all the players etc etc threads that sometimes are almost identical to others started within the same hour. It always happens on here in bad times. It's understandable, but it is p!ssing and moaning from armchairs. ;D We've all been guilty of it, I'm just so over it all now and wanting to see us focus on more positive things.

Threads often go off on other related tangents and my point was a valid one and on topic, there will be more Schulz's if we don't learn from the errors of the ways off this management/development style that has raped our football department.

We are all emotional mate and hurting, I'm just trying to focus long term and not get swept up in the, let's have his head, and his head and his head and join in yet another round of bash the player. Let's lop the head of the true problem off first then worry about specifics. A lot of it is obvious as you say, both from my statements and yours, but rest assured you will always find someone on here to argue on any point, so I am not sure anything really is obvious when i think about it lol.

I'm on record on here as giving Schulz little faith and some damning opinions, I'm no defender or lover of him I just hate seeing us as supporters get into little lynch mobs and bay for the blood of certain players when we need to start getting a lot smarter as a club/culture than this finger pointing mentality.

I don't think there would be a more obvious statement than we need to do a big clean out and get rid of all the players with no potential or who don't perform.

I can't go into specifics but I know of a few occurences in the last few weeks that are staggering from a player management/handling/development point of view behind the scenes and I am far more sick of that crap going on than any individual player still being on our list. We have had a lot of decent talent or players on our list who have been mismanaged/poorly developed ("richmonised") from being cut unfairly in front of worse to not being played when earning the right against people getting walk up starts when they might struggle in Coburg Seniors let alone AFL level.

I'm just as fed up and emotional as you and others but I'm just dogged now on focussing on this more mess more deeper. I am sick of discussing about why this player is still in the system and why this kid hasn't developed, I don't know how people have the energy to still do it. It's reactionary and symptomatic of the problem at our club, too much finger pointing and addressing symptoms than focussing on the deeper problem.

Forgive me DD, but it has been a long day and it was a struggle to get through that entire post. ;D

As an outsider looking in (as most of us here are) I would subscribe to the mismanagement theory, based on the fact that very few of our players seem to improve sufficiently or fulfil their potential while wearing the yellow and black. And it does appear that Terry plays favorites.

Are you saying that the players themselves are fed up with the "management/handling & development" and the playing favorites by Terry and his cronies, or is this just your view from the outside?

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

I can't go into specifics but I know of a few occurences in the last few weeks that are staggering from a player management/handling/development point of view behind the scenes and I am far more sick of that crap going on than any individual player still being on our list. We have had a lot of decent talent or players on our list who have been mismanaged/poorly developed ("richmonised") from being cut unfairly in front of worse to not being played when earning the right against people getting walk up starts when they might struggle in Coburg Seniors let alone AFL level.

You've come on board with my frustration at Plough’s handling of the Saucehead/Gus situation.

Welcome aboard the bandwagon mate, there is plenty of room as your only the second one on.

 

[thisistigerland]

I'd sack Shultz now like St Kilda did with Capuano and set an example. Clearly, he does not have the skill nor the desire to play football for our club.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Fair comments DD. You may or may not know that I am not a 'bag as much as you can' sort of person. I like to see the positives too and will often portray the positive side of a situation. My pet hate though is having and holding on to players who don't live up to their potential because they dont try. In a team game that is the worst trait to have. Success is bred from working for each other not for oneself. We will never experience success if we dont address that primary important issue. That is why I focus on the Schulz's and the Tamblings.

You obviously have more inside knowledge of recent goings on than most of us so I am not going to dispute your argument. So what is the solution? Where do we start?

Totally understand where you are coming from mate, I've been the same. I guess I'm just coming from a angle of being exhausted now of going on about the same old things (which are symptoms of a disease not the disease itself) and trying to focus/look deeper. That was my only point.

When you hear about some of the things that happen behind the scenes and hear about things at other clubs and see first hand the results, it's no wonder there is a big rift between them and us in regard to end results. Things that can affect a players development that the club is responsible for can be a lot more extensive than just not having the right development coach or program in place. There is always a percentage of players who are just not up to it for one reason or another, then there is another percentage who get hampered by poor development/structures/politics etc. We have too many of both which results in list cloggers or "limbo" players.

Tiger Bob, Claw etc (and many others) on here have been vocal about the need for deeper changes than just a change of coach even and are in my opinion spot on. I can't go into it myself in much detail right now as I've spent too much time on this site as it is from work (always sucks me in) :hihi

Right now we need to be taking our time in the coming weeks and make a real indepth audit/review and making a indepth list of what we need to move on and then making the decisive and uncompromising personnel changes to facilitate that.

As Buckley said there is no point in Richmond going off after Round 4 and sacking wallace if we loose to Melbourne, we need to be really strategic and take our time to get this right. Otherwise we will create distractions and media circuses that will hamper our strategic planning.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Are you saying that the players themselves are fed up with the "management/handling & development" and the playing favorites by Terry and his cronies, or is this just your view from the outside?

I'm not saying anything dramatic like that, I'm saying there are just things happening that shouldn't be happening in a professional/dynamic organisation. We can all see it from the outside for the most part but there are a lot of subtle things too. Every aspect of a club has to have intricate support structures / strategic planning not just the game plan or recruitment. We all know about them, but that word that gets bandied around...culture and ones like leadership (and no I am not talking about senior players I am talking about in a organisation, everyone having the same direction) all have a strong influence on player development..all have to be addressed at core as much as the sexy stuff. There seems to be the wrong messages being sent out regularly internally or at least inconsistantly in my opinion.

 

[IanG]

I'm not saying anything dramatic like that, I'm saying there are just things happening that shouldn't be happening in a professional/dynamic organisation. We can all see it from the outside for the most part but there are a lot of subtle things too. Every aspect of a club has to have intricate support structures / strategic planning not just the game plan or recruitment. We all know about them, but that word that gets bandied around...culture and ones like leadership (and no I am not talking about senior players I am talking about in a organisation, everyone having the same direction) all have a strong influence on player development..all have to be addressed at core as much as the sexy stuff. There seems to be the wrong messages being sent out regularly internally or at least inconsistantly in my opinion.

This is why we needed to get Pelchen, but we didn't because he didn't want to come. Still if its obvious to people like you one would think it was obvious to Craig Cameron.

 

[linuscambridge]

We cant put every failed footy player on a half back flank either. There's only two of those spots available.

Well then how about we give those 2 spots to blokes who can kick?

If I think really hard I can come up with maybe 4 blokes in the Tigers who can hit a target over 40 meters away with any consistancy. Jay happens to be one of them. He did it more than once last year, around the corner on his left boot, kicks that about 38 others on the Tigers list would be totally incapable of executing on their preferred foot.

I think we are mostly in agreement that Schulz has been a failure in the forward line, let's call a spade a spade and stick him down back where he can occasionally kick over the top of the zone defence and cause a few modern coaches some headaches.

Other than that, I think we are stuck with him for a couple of years, I did a quick count the other day and came up with at least 8 who are either too old or can't kick the ball, I would get rid of many more before Jay.

 

[hellenictiger]

Schulz offers very little, actually his the type of player a superstar from another club would love to line up on.

His been at the club too long now to say that he can improve, the fact is, he has either hit his peak or he is already on the slide down.

 

[GoodOne]

Well then how about we give those 2 spots to blokes who can kick?

If I think really hard I can come up with maybe 4 blokes in the Tigers who can hit a target over 40 meters away with any consistancy. Jay happens to be one of them. He did it more than once last year, around the corner on his left boot, kicks that about 38 others on the Tigers list would be totally incapable of executing on their preferred foot.

I think we are mostly in agreement that Schulz has been a failure in the forward line, let's call a spade a spade and stick him down back where he can occasionally kick over the top of the zone defence and cause a few modern coaches some headaches.

Other than that, I think we are stuck with him for a couple of years, I did a quick count the other day and came up with at least 8 who are either too old or can't kick the ball, I would get rid of many more before Jay.

Problem is I watched Jay closely when he did play half back flank last year and he was way too slow. A number of times he would be in the primary position to get to the ball first and would be beaten to it. So the question is do you play someone who cannot easily get their own ball but when they do can kick consistently to position, or do you go with someone who knows how to win the ball but coughs it up a good percentage of the time? The real question is do we have anyone who can get the ball and kick well to position? We do have a couple but we require them in the midfield. It's this lack of depth of hard, skillful player that allows some players to regularly get a guernsey at Tigerland.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Cleve Hughes should go before Shulz!

Calls for Clean to be called up certainly do make me laugh.
On what basis exactly?
He's not making an impact in the Coburg 2s.
It would just add to his silver spoon mentality to promote him.

Time to try a new tact.
Post or even Gourdis could do little to have less impact than either of these guys in a forward role.
Give them a taste.

 

[linuscambridge]

Problem is I watched Jay closely when he did play half back flank last year and he was way too slow. A number of times he would be in the primary position to get to the ball first and would be beaten to it. So the question is do you play someone who cannot easily get their own ball but when they do can kick consistently to position, or do you go with someone who knows how to win the ball but coughs it up a good percentage of the time? The real question is do we have anyone who can get the ball and kick well to position?

Fair point. I guess if Jay didn't have deficiencies we wouldn't be having this discussion. Perhaps the match ups dictate whether or not Jay gets a game.

I have a personal issue with blokes who can't execute the most important part of the game with any proficiency. For that reason there are many more on the list who would go before Jay, if I had a choice.

 

[tigertim]

Calls for Clean to be called up certainly do make me laugh.
On what basis exactly?
He's not making an impact in the Coburg 2s.
It would just add to his silver spoon mentality to promote him.

Time to try a new tact.
Post or even Gourdis could do little to have less impact than either of these guys in a forward role.
Give them a taste.

ToO, I think one eyed was saying Hughes should be delisted before Schulz, not promoted.