Season Launch / Sheedy's Speach / KB presenting Player's with jumpers...

[lamb22]

lol scooper pooper while we have the attitude we have we will always be the laughing stock.

it never ceases to amaze me here we are putting the boots into a player, who by any level headed standard has done well in his short career.

with what hes done to this point hes easily in front of meyer casserly both gone pattison polo raines edwards jon hislop white collins king mcmahon connors hughes thomson yet these chronic underachievers are strenuously defended and put on a pedestal higher than a kid like hurn . i have no doubt that if hurn was at richmond he would walk into our best 22 yet the ferals have the gall to look down their noses at him.
if ferals are prepared to put down hurn surely they are prepared to have a go at the many less performing footballers at our club but alas its not the case just laughable.
i may well be guilty of being to harsh on our players but for sure and certain rfc ferals put down opposition players for no other reason than they play for another side.

Its all about process Claw, you've got to get the process right in your drafting strategy. Wasting a first round pick on an overweight injury prone slow flanker who kicks well but cant find it very often is a waste of a first round pick which should be used to finding top10 players at your club over the coming decade.

As I said before you can find competent half backfkankers in rounds 2,3 and even 4 of the draft. In fact you can even trade pick 19 for one.

Put away the West Coast rose coloured flower sniffing glasses and see what's obvious to most objective observers.

 

[lamb22]

.

with what hes done to this point hes easily in front of meyer casserly both gone pattison polo raines edwards jon hislop white collins king mcmahon connors hughes thomson yet these chronic underachievers are strenuously defended and put on a pedestal higher than a kid like hurn ..

LOL

In turn -

1. Pattision is a lump and I dont rate him but he has runs on the board over Hurn as he actually had to play an important midfield position rather than hide on a back flank.

2. Polo is a real footballer with better smarts courage and endurance - done more in his first game than Hurn has in his whole career.

3. Raines - not a fan, but second in rising star . Terry obviously sees him as a go to man down back - Better at finding it than Hurn not as good in using it - Still has him covered.

4. Edwards - chalk and cheese - vision, poise smarts, speed endurance , nose for goal as opposed to the goodyear blimp man.

5. Jon - well my first post above rates him 3 out of 10 - why dont you do some more rifle fishing in barrels.

6. Hislop - not a fan but second season sheezz.

7. White - honest kid who gives more than Hurn.

8. Collins - gee you're just digging a bigger hole for yourself.

9. King - also done more than Hurn in less time.

10. Macmahon - yeah I know your views but Macmahon easy with runs on the board,

11. Connors - Your'e joking now aren't you

12. Hughes - Give you one!

13. Thompson - hasn't even run out in the colours and you've already shafted him (sorry I shouldn't be strenously defending a bloke from criticism just because he hasn't played a freaking game for us OMFG!!) . By the way finds his own ball which Hurn cant! Thommo for mine easy and I wont even mention he was number 1 in clearances in the leaugue last year adjusted or TOG. Oops sorry I just did!

You are just blinded by some chip on your shoulder in relation to RFC - It does make for amusing reading sometimes though!

 

[lamb22]

Still been chuckling about Claw's man love for Hurn and done some stat checking. Now noting that Hurn plays what Claw reckons is the easiest spot on the ground as a running half back or tries his luck (unsuccessfully) as a mid - you'd expect some decent stats - well apart from the impressive 96 kg on a 186 cm frame not much to write home about.

Average possessions 12.8 per game

Going like for like with players listed by Claw who have played half back/wing you get the following career averages

King 18 possessions
Macmahon 17
Polo 15.2
Raines 17.5
Connors 14

Gee how presumptious of us to defend our serial underachievers against Claw's wunderkind .

:rofl :rofl

Just to illustrate how much of a waste of a first round pick Hurn was Macmahon was the only other first round pick on the list above , Kings was a rookie, Polo second round, Connors fourth and Raines pick 70 odd which just proves that you can easily pick up Hurn types or better down the draft.

Pick 15 for a fat flanker was a mistake.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Season Launch / Sheedy's Speech / KB presenting Player's with jumpers...

It wasn't my intention to single out Murphy despite my inclusion in the quote.

Interesting though isn't it that Foley came off the rookie list and Murph went at one. We can chalk that up as a win.

I agree plucking Foley from a rookie list is a massive win. That still doesn't make Murphy a mistake as number one that year. I was more talking about playing styles. We all see Nathan as a hard working in and under extractor who lacks a bit of polish to be truly elite. I would put Marc Murphy in that class as well.

Say it how you want any pick after JON in that draft and before 20 would improve our list and have us in a better spot.

 

[Scoop]

Its all about process Claw, you've got to get the process right in your drafting strategy. Wasting a first round pick on an overweight injury prone slow flanker who kicks well but cant find it very often is a waste of a first round pick which should be used to finding top10 players at your club over the coming decade.

Agree with that and Hurn (who is a 50/50 to make it) would have been a better choice then JON. You don't take X factor picks inside the first round. If you do your process is wrong.

As I said before you can find competent half backfkankers in rounds 2,3 and even 4 of the draft. In fact you can even trade pick 19 for one.

So you want to bag the Eagles for taking a back flanker at 15 but you defend us getting Jordy with pick 19?

Not sure you can do that and call your self subjective.

 

[IanG]

Om Murphy, arguably he had a better season than Axle last year despite being two year younger (a big difference at 21). But he still is probably the worst or second worst number 1 pick this decade depending on how you feel about Goodard

I reckon Axle is clearly better than Murphy. Murphy's disposal is poor for a No. 1 pick. Goddard has now worked out pretty well IMHO, miles above wells.

 

[the claw]

so you think hurn a dud its going to be fun bringing this thread up in yrs to come.sheesh 8 of the players you mention dont even meet the single most important trait to play the game.
yep its sad when so many totally overrate our duds. its also funny watching them do it.

pattison omg your actually defending his performances thats unbelievable. next you will be telling me he can mark run jump take a mark and monster everyone on the park.

polo cant kick over a jam tin has managed how many games in 4 yrs oh thats right a staggering 31. at this rate he will top 100 when hes 40.even a dud club like ours has not seen fit to give him to many games. yet on polo i would play him in front of all the other duds.he may even turn into a decent tagger not a great return on pick 20 if thats all hes capable of. but keep on propping him up its real funny.

lol at raines a 2nd in the rising star sheesh i suppose he did a bit better than hurns 3rd. your delusional if you think raines smart and and can find it better than hurn unbelievable comment but funny.

shane edwards vision eh poise smarts speed endurance your making it up as you go. he has endurance. so far hes shown an ability to totally butcher the ball and a total inability to find it.hes played either on a wing or forward and managed just 23 goals in how many seasons. hurn playing of hb has kicked how many i wonder. speed sheesh open your eyes if hes quick id hate to see what you would say deledio is.

jon what you dont think a comparison worthwhile i wonder why. after all one went at 8 and the other 13 in the same draft. but oh no we cant have anyone criticise the club or its players now can we. thats the funniest thing ive read lately.

hmm hislop i am a fan. what has he done after two yrsthough and what had hurn done. oh thats right hurn didnt do anything he cant play he certainly cant play better than any rfc player.lol

matt white next to edwards the worst user of the ball on our list has one redeeming feature hes quick but according to ferals like yourself thats enough to make him a player.after all he wears a tiger jumper. can you see your slf its hilarious. defend em no matter what doesnt do much for your credability.

andy collins a player i like but tell me what has he done at afl level and in comparing what hes done and hurns done at the top level theres no comparison. does collins have an upside well if i took your attitude toward opposition players id say no but i dont have your attitude. hmm 2 yrs hasnt played a game but hes better than hurn lol.

king you have to be joking in defending this bloke what credability you had left went out the door. and you think im digging holes.

connors again how many games has daniel played. how well has he played what has he achieved. are we comparing what each player has done or not. some would say no motor overweight lazy bad attitude slow hmm sounds familiar.

mcmuffin. sheesh if hurns as bad as you say it comes down to kicking skills then hurn wins hands down.i cant be any kinder than that.

hughes sheesh you concede and yet i bag him i havent totally witten him of yet. i thought it might be wise to give him this yr before sinking the knife in.

ah thomson yep he hasnt pulled on the jumpe,r yet. but hes had 4 yrs for how many games again, or are you going to ignore what hes achieved in 4 yrs that would be typical after all he must be alright we drafted him

now i wonder who has the chip on his shoulder, as i said some clearly live in ignorant bliss when it comes to our own.thank god theres those of us who truly see things the way they are.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

I reckon Axle is clearly better than Murphy. Murphy's disposal is poor for a No. 1 pick. Goddard has now worked out pretty well IMHO, miles above wells.

I've obviously sympathetic to your viewpoint towards Axle being a Tiger supporter, but when you factor in age I have to admit I might take Murphy in a straight swap.

Murphy gets an impressive amount of goal assists for a midfielder, which to me indicates his ball use isn't too bad. Having said all that I'd stick to the worse number 1 pick of the decade call though.

 

[shamekha]

Another request to you Claw

Please give up and go and support another team. Richmond doesn't need all your insightful input and insidiously negative approach to players on the list. especially when you only watch TV football and can't see what happens outside the camera view.

 

[TigerMasochist]

yep agree again pooper. the similarities between murphy and foley are great. murphy is probably a bit harder inside and foley is quicker. both are not great kicks foley is one of few footballers who has actually managed to improve in this area murphy has some work to do. overall their insdie work more than off sets their kicking deficiencies. would also say murphy being bigger and harder is harder to tag out of games. foley imo has been worked out by opposition teams and is suffering from heavy tags. we will see how good he really is if he can work his way thru this. in judd murphy gibbs stevens they have 4 midfielders as good as anything we have.foley cotchin cousins deledio. yet all and sundry on this site refuse to acknowledge that their quartet is if not equal to ours they are very close.

Geez! Apart from loving all the mines bigger than yours going on in this thread, I nearly fell off my chair when I saw this one comparing midfields.
Judds a recognised champion midfielder.
Stevens is a recognised experienced quality outside mid, give him the pill and half a yard of space and he'll torch your arse.
Murphy and Gibbs are back to back first picks in the draft.
Murphy looks like he will be very good with an elite support midfield around him.
Gibbs looks like he will be elite.

AND you're comparing them to what you've designated as our midfield.
You're picking a hole in Foley who came off the rookie list and has carried our main midfield endeavours for the last few years but can't shake a tag because he's generally on his hands and knees under the pack shovelling the ball out.
Supported by Tucky a recycle who was lucky to hang on to his career, and Kane Johnson who has been used mainly as a tagger the last few years.
Deledio plays midfield part time, he's been used everywhere else for most of his career.
Cotchin a second pick who had no preseason and has played fifteen career games.
Cousins a recognised champion who not only hasn't played a game for us but has missed most of the last two years for obvious reasons.
If there is one thing Cartoon should have for the next year or five it's a bloody elite midfield.
Even Wet Coke got to back to back grand finals with an elite mid and only reasonable forwards and defense.
Just throw in Kruezer instead of Cox and you have a replica of your beloved Weagles.
*smile*! I just scared myself.

 

[lamb22]

so you think hurn a dud its going to be fun bringing this thread up in yrs to come.sheesh 8 of the players you mention dont even meet the single most important trait to play the game.
yep its sad when so many totally overrate our duds. its also funny watching them do it.

pattison omg your actually defending his performances thats unbelievable. next you will be telling me he can mark run jump take a mark and monster everyone on the park.

polo cant kick over a jam tin has managed how many games in 4 yrs oh thats right a staggering 31. at this rate he will top 100 when hes 40.even a dud club like ours has not seen fit to give him to many games. yet on polo i would play him in front of all the other duds.he may even turn into a decent tagger not a great return on pick 20 if thats all hes capable of. but keep on propping him up its real funny.

lol at raines a 2nd in the rising star sheesh i suppose he did a bit better than hurns 3rd. your delusional if you think raines smart and and can find it better than hurn unbelievable comment but funny.

shane edwards vision eh poise smarts speed endurance your making it up as you go. he has endurance. so far hes shown an ability to totally butcher the ball and a total inability to find it.hes played either on a wing or forward and managed just 23 goals in how many seasons. hurn playing of hb has kicked how many i wonder. speed sheesh open your eyes if hes quick id hate to see what you would say deledio is.

jon what you dont think a comparison worthwhile i wonder why. after all one went at 8 and the other 13 in the same draft. but oh no we cant have anyone criticise the club or its players now can we. thats the funniest thing ive read lately.

hmm hislop i am a fan. what has he done after two yrsthough and what had hurn done. oh thats right hurn didnt do anything he cant play he certainly cant play better than any rfc player.lol

matt white next to edwards the worst user of the ball on our list has one redeeming feature hes quick but according to ferals like yourself thats enough to make him a player.after all he wears a tiger jumper. can you see your slf its hilarious. defend em no matter what doesnt do much for your credability.

andy collins a player i like but tell me what has he done at afl level and in comparing what hes done and hurns done at the top level theres no comparison. does collins have an upside well if i took your attitude toward opposition players id say no but i dont have your attitude. hmm 2 yrs hasnt played a game but hes better than hurn lol.

king you have to be joking in defending this bloke what credability you had left went out the door. and you think im digging holes.

connors again how many games has daniel played. how well has he played what has he achieved. are we comparing what each player has done or not. some would say no motor overweight lazy bad attitude slow hmm sounds familiar.

mcmuffin. sheesh if hurns as bad as you say it comes down to kicking skills then hurn wins hands down.i cant be any kinder than that.

hughes sheesh you concede and yet i bag him i havent totally witten him of yet. i thought it might be wise to give him this yr before sinking the knife in.

ah thomson yep he hasnt pulled on the jumpe,r yet. but hes had 4 yrs for how many games again, or are you going to ignore what hes achieved in 4 yrs that would be typical after all he must be alright we drafted him

now i wonder who has the chip on his shoulder, as i said some clearly live in ignorant bliss when it comes to our own.thank god theres those of us who truly see things the way they are.

Dear Claw

Please be consistent in the criteria you use and stop chopping and changing to suit whatever your argument is at the time. If its getting out on the park so be it, If its some subjective or objective criteria lets judge on that - If its potential lets do that but you are all over the shop.

Your arguments against Collins and Connors are dead set stupid - both have been around two years and missed large chunks through injury. Collins is a dead set mid who arrived as a low pick at 186 cm and barely 70 kg. A great low pick but everyone knew he wouldn't be playing seniors for a year or two and he missed his first year through injury to boot but in relation to operting in traffic, finding the ball, courage, aerial work or kicking a goal the kid is streets ahead of fatty boomba. These are subjective judgements I know as is my belief that Connors blows Hurn away on talent (and skinfolds).

But when you say I am delusional because I say Raines finds it better than Hurn and you dispute it after me providing figures that Raines gets on average 5 more disposals a game than Hurn, well how can I continue arguing. I seem to be dealing in facts and logic and you seem to be dealing in bizzarro land talk! My head is still spinning from trying to work out some of the nonsense you type. By the way I dont think you will ever find a post of mine where I say Raines is smart!

Ps Not surprised you rate Hislop - he's just like Hurn - slow and cant find the pill either! As its his second year however I'll cut him some slack unlike jelly belly Shannon!

 

[the claw]

okay lets get serious about this debate no more name calling no more trying to score points.
i have 500 that says by the end of 2010 hurn will be a well established consistent afl player if i lose, my money goes to the jdf. i will even put my money in there now it will just save me the trouble for the 2011 season. i will forward my bet to this site if rosmerta is agreeable and your self. your pretty *smile* sure of what you think i can se no reason why you wouldnt want to make the club some easy money at someone elses expense. lets see ya put your money where your mouth is.
and ya know what i have concerns about hurn just like many others especially his possesion rate at afl level but if junior level is a guide it wont be a problem. the way i see it im on a hiding to nothing after all you and others have alredy deemed him a dud.

 

[Tigers of Old]

i have 500 that says by the end of 2010 hurn will be a well established consistent afl player if i lose, my money goes to the jdf.

I think your criteria is aiming a bit low for a first round draft pick clawsy, you'll have to do better than that.
Even the likes of Greg Tivendale & Mark Chaffey played over 150 games of AFL football when we were really sh!t.
Just because Shazza gets a regular game for the Weegals doesn't mean he's actually any good.

 

[IanG]

okay lets get serious about this debate no more name calling no more trying to score points.
i have 500 that says by the end of 2010 hurn will be a well established consistent afl player if i lose, my money goes to the jdf.

As usual claw its all so black and white to you. I'm not saying he won't be a regular player just that he won't be a standout and certainly not worth a first round pick.

 

[feisty tige]

After reading the initial posts about the evening, Season Launch, I had to skip a few pages as we seem to have drifted off.

Shame to hear the night didn't seem to have enough grog, but sounds like Sheeds might be great to have around the club.