Selected team-Rd 15

[tigertim]

Question:

If you were a young aspiring Richmond player how would you feel if you wer shafted from pillar to post, bust a gut every week and see tried and failed duds run out week after week and make the same stupid mistakes?

What would it do for your long term confidence... yeah he has next year. What a crock of $#I7. These kids need game time now when the season is shot. Does this mean that we can think of writing off 2008 as well a we play untried kids from round 1?

Tough Times Tough Decisions

This is rubbish. No kid is getting shafted.

1. First and foremost they need to earn their spot.
2. Secondly to throw young players constantly in the toughest football grade week in week out will all but ensure an early end to their careers.
3. Confidence development starts in the VFL. You need to at least develop a belief in the VFL first to be able to take the step to take on the AFL - and it is a big step.

In terms of Jack he is confident at VFL level. Let's remember it's his second season in the VFL, not his first. Also in terms of throwing young players into the toughest grade will end their careers: 2 points. I see many, many first year players at other clubs doing quite well and have seen it happen every season since I can remember. The other point is we take the other option (ie holding their progress back) too far. We see the stifling of their progress through constant up down selection between VFL and AFL. Let's just play them. I've said it before we've seen what Tiv/Krak/Hyde etc can do let's see what Hughes, Jack, Meyer etc can do. We have NOTHING to loose!

 

[Baloo]

Quite simply, we need to see Shulz play every game until the end of the season. I'd add Hartigan, Meyer and Moore to that list. These are 3 we need to make a hard decision about come year end. Do we keep them or let them go ?

Hughes is staying, as is young Jack and McGuane. Let them play in the VFL and get some hopeful finals experience. Our season is shot so let's at least get a clear picture of what we need to do around the trade period.

 

[jb03]

Other clubs throw their first year players in at will and many seem to adapt very quickly. Not ours, we've got to give them 4 years for a multitude of pathetic reasons. Even young Everitt looked the goods for the doggies tonight in only his second game.

 

[mb64]

Other clubs throw their first year players in at will and many seem to adapt very quickly. Not ours, we've got to give them 4 years for a multitude of pathetic reasons. Even young Everitt looked the goods for the doggies tonight in only his second game.

Everitt was very impressive for Doggies,looks the goods.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Michael Tuck played ~50 games in the reserves and still had time for 400+ senior matches. Players have to be allowed to develop at their own speed.

 

[Tiger74]

dumping the kids in with the big boys too early doesnt work always

just ask Zac Dawson

 

[linuscambridge]

This is rubbish. No kid is getting shafted.

1. First and foremost they need to earn their spot.
2. Secondly to throw young players constantly in the toughest football grade week in week out will all but ensure an early end to their careers.
3. Confidence development starts in the VFL. You need to at least develop a belief in the VFL first to be able to take the step to take on the AFL - and it is a big step.

Too much sense caged.
The calls for Cleve Hughes particularly astound me when by all reports his last several weeks at Coburg have been nothing to write home about but hey let's give him a game anyway.
The same people who claim Schulz has done bugger all so far in his career are being a tad hypocritical when they ask for Cleve to get a game based on his lack of Coburg form just because of the date on his birth certificate.

Totally agree TOO, however "by all reports" fails to mention that Coburg were televised last week, so instead of shooting their mouths off some of the posters here should actually tune in or tape it Saturday arvo or Wednesday night, and then they could make an informed opinion without even having to turn up to the Coburg game.

And coaching, while no doubt not easy, is certainly easier than spouting rubbish on a website having made no observation to support your argument. With coaching, you tell a bloke what you want him to do, then if he goes out and does it you should be happy and reward him accordingly. Schulz kicked 3 goals last week in the rain at a mud pit, while chasing down and making multiple tackles. Don't know what else you could expect in the conditions so he deserves a game.

Cleve struggled a bit and never settled into a role on the day, did a few nice things but was way behind Schulz on the day. I would like to see all the boys, Cleve, Jack and Jay get a lot more game time before the season is out, but they have to earn it the old fashioned way.

 

[GoodOne]

Schulz kicked 3 goals last week in the rain at a mud pit, while chasing down and making multiple tackles. Don't know what else you could expect in the conditions so he deserves a game.

How about doing it consistently over a number of games? This 'he played 1 good game so lets get him back in' philosophy is pretty damn annoying. If you bring a young player in let them have at least 3 or 4 games. The message is wrong. Players can see, if they havent performed, that all they need to do is play a good game in the twos and they're straight back in. I want to see players play their guts out because they naturally want to get better, and want to win the ball at whatever cost, not because they've been given ultimatums.

Cleve Hughes has been given a chance. He has struggled a little. I was one who called for him to be played over Schulz and obviously he hasnt yet handled the tempo, so see no problem with him in the twos. Jack Reiwoldt has performed much better and more consistently than those two over the course of the year in the twos, yet he's been given 2 games in the 1sts, both times dropped after just one game. I'm sure the club have their reasons, but I cant see the benefit in bringing players up and down into the ones like yo-yos.

 

[geoffryprettyboy]

dumping the kids in with the big boys too early doesnt work always

just ask Zac Dawson

You can't compare JR with Crusty Dawson.

 

[RROFO]

I'd be pretty excited if I were JR. Being involved in a team that is probably going to play finals this year and being part of the team that gets them to those finals with the mates that have played with you for the whole year. Sounds a whole lot more attractive and inspiring than playing in a team that will be lucky to win another match.

 

[Tiger74]

dumping the kids in with the big boys too early doesnt work always

just ask Zac Dawson

You can't compare JR with Crusty Dawson.

yet, and if we dont brutalize him by elevating him BEFORE HE IS READY, we never will. JR is still a skinny bloke full of enthusiasm, but learning the game. Happy for him to get the odd seniors game, but for 2007 spend most of the time in the twos gaining exp/confidence, and hopefully putting on a few kilo in the break.

Agree with all being said on Cleve as well. If he is inconsistent in the twos it make promotion hard to justify. And as I posted previously Browny stated his view was that Cleve didnt have the body ready yet to sustain week on week footy in the seniors

 

[GoodOne]

I'd be pretty excited if I were JR. Being involved in a team that is probably going to play finals this year and being part of the team that gets them to those finals with the mates that have played with you for the whole year. Sounds a whole lot more attractive and inspiring than playing in a team that will be lucky to win another match.

As opposed to those you hope to play with for another 10 or more? Personally, I think anyone would prefer to be picked and playing in the AFL (even if it is bottom side) then playing finals in the VFL. And if they don't, then they probably don't have the tight attitude for AFL footy. Reiwoldt is going to play finals VFL footy whatever happens now, it's going to be great for his experience and confidence and morale, but I would be very surprised if he wouldn't have preferred to be playing at the elite level. In the end it probably doesn't really matter too greatly as he is very young, but, with where the Tigers are at the moment, would have thought playing him for a few more games in the ones would have been better for him, even for the sake of leading up to VFL finals.

 

[Tigers of Old]

How about doing it consistently over a number of games? This 'he played 1 good game so lets get him back in' philosophy is pretty damn annoying. If you bring a young player in let them have at least 3 or 4 games. The message is wrong. Players can see, if they havent performed, that all they need to do is play a good game in the twos and they're straight back in. I want to see players play their guts out because they naturally want to get better, and want to win the ball at whatever cost, not because they've been given ultimatums.

Sorry Goodies but that's more hypocrisy.
Hughes's initial promotion to the seniors this season was on the back of one good game for Coburg. I think Kingsley too was promoted after one bag of goals.
At least Schulz has played well over the past fortnight and as linus highlights he did all that could be asked in the conditions last week and is clearly hungry for another opportunity. He deserves a chance to prove his worth.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

He deserves a chance to prove his worth.

Big game for Shultz.Most likely his absolute last chance.

 

[RROFO]

As opposed to those you hope to play with for another 10 or more? Personally, I think anyone would prefer to be picked and playing in the AFL (even if it is bottom side) then playing finals in the VFL. And if they don't, then they probably don't have the tight attitude for AFL footy. Reiwoldt is going to play finals VFL footy whatever happens now, it's going to be great for his experience and confidence and morale, but I would be very surprised if he wouldn't have preferred to be playing at the elite level. In the end it probably doesn't really matter too greatly as he is very young, but, with where the Tigers are at the moment, would have thought playing him for a few more games in the ones would have been better for him, even for the sake of leading up to VFL finals.

I don't believe it is as big an issue as some would would make it out to be.

 

[GoodOne]

How about doing it consistently over a number of games? This 'he played 1 good game so lets get him back in' philosophy is pretty damn annoying. If you bring a young player in let them have at least 3 or 4 games. The message is wrong. Players can see, if they havent performed, that all they need to do is play a good game in the twos and they're straight back in. I want to see players play their guts out because they naturally want to get better, and want to win the ball at whatever cost, not because they've been given ultimatums.

Sorry Goodies but that's more hypocrisy.
Hughes's initial promotion to the seniors this season was on the back of one good game for Coburg. I think Kingsley too was promoted after one bag of goals.
At least Schulz has played well over the past fortnight and as linus highlights he did all that could be asked in the conditions last week and is clearly hungry for another opportunity. He deserves a chance to prove his worth.

Where's the hypocricy? Hughes was given a chance because others had failed and he'd strung some good games together, not just one as you allude to. We needed to fill that position, otherwise Hughes may have indeed continued playing in the twos. Reiwoldt was basically dropped after just one game for Schulz just because Schulz played one above average game in the twos, the previous week general consensus was he did OK. As for Kingsley, thats not hypocrisy from me, I've always been just as happy to have him playing in the twos as he is not the future. Point is, its taken a huge kick in the backside to get Schulz remotely interested in the game, whereas JR has put every foot right. You can't expect to perform after one game, especially when its only your second game.

Anyway, what's done is done. let's see how Schulzy performs this week, see if his desire is indeed back. Now that he's back in and the club has decided this is his chance (again) leave him in for the next 3 or 4 weeks to prove himself. If he fails then I'd like to see others given the same opportunity for the last 4 games.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Where's the hypocricy? Hughes was given a chance because others had failed and he'd strung some good games together, not just one as you allude to. We needed to fill that position, otherwise Hughes may have indeed continued playing in the twos. Reiwoldt was basically dropped after just one game for Schulz just because Schulz played one above average game in the twos, the previous week general consensus was he did OK. As for Kingsley, thats not hypocrisy from me, I've always been just as happy to have him playing in the twos as he is not the future. Point is, its taken a huge kick in the backside to get Schulz remotely interested in the game, whereas JR has put every foot right. You can't expect to perform after one game, especially when its only your second game.

Anyway, what's done is done. let's see how Schulzy performs this week, see if his desire is indeed back. Now that he's back in and the club has decided this is his chance (again) leave him in for the next 3 or 4 weeks to prove himself. If he fails then I'd like to see others given the same opportunity for the last 4 games.

I agree that in particular Jack's stiff but despite some good games for Coburg he doesn't look ready for senior football yet IMO. He needs muscle and fitness. That'll come and I'm looking forward to seeing his improvement next year.
The taste will see him work harder.

Regardless of all the criticism surrounding Jay(most of it justified) I still think he has more to offer as a genuine target than young Hughes or Riewoldt at this stage. Howver unless he pulls his finger out for the next 8 or so games to justify his spot on the list, that won't be the case next season.

 

[Ruthless Tigers ?]

Question:

If you were a young aspiring Richmond player how would you feel if you wer shafted from pillar to post, bust a gut every week and see tried and failed duds run out week after week and make the same stupid mistakes?

What would it do for your long term confidence... yeah he has next year. What a crock of $#I7. These kids need game time now when the season is shot. Does this mean that we can think of writing off 2008 as well a we play untried kids from round 1?

Tough Times Tough Decisions

This is rubbish. No kid is getting shafted.

1. First and foremost they need to earn their spot.
2. Secondly to throw young players constantly in the toughest football grade week in week out will all but ensure an early end to their careers.
3. Confidence development starts in the VFL. You need to at least develop a belief in the VFL first to be able to take the step to take on the AFL - and it is a big step.

In terms of Jack he is confident at VFL level. Let's remember it's his second season in the VFL, not his first. Also in terms of throwing young players into the toughest grade will end their careers: 2 points. I see many, many first year players at other clubs doing quite well and have seen it happen every season since I can remember. The other point is we take the other option (ie holding their progress back) too far. We see the stifling of their progress through constant up down selection between VFL and AFL. Let's just play them. I've said it before we've seen what Tiv/Krak/Hyde etc can do let's see what Hughes, Jack, Meyer etc can do. We have NOTHING to loose!

Exactly what I meant! Lets look at what is happening at other clubs and we cans ee these young kids devloping their skills and excelling. We didnt have to wait to see Lids, as I recall Tambling had to get over a hammy. Clubs dont hold kids back if they are to young. We are holding kids back by not giving them a go and Ithink with 2007 in tatters why not plan for 2008 and let them run